It’s very interesting reading this forum for many reasons but one thing sticks out, pride in the Nation of Britain.

Most of it comes to the surface because of time spent oversees, perhaps allowing a more objective view from a different angle, who knows.

I made a comment on some other post about Rupert Brooke and then decided to go off and refresh my memory of some of his poems. (Rupert made fame for his patriotic war poetry shown in works like ‘The Soldier’. Ironically, he died through blood poisoning and never made it to the front line).

However, his work was used to inspire patriotism and lift the spirit of the folk at home and abroad for these very idealistic views of England’s lush lands. (Along the same lines as Jerusalem, etc). I am not saying they are wrong in their descriptions of England, just more the way it is described.

I feel a lot of people on this forum describe England in the same ‘poetic license as’, Brookes, etc, which is nice but I can’t help feeling it is all very simplistic!

(I too also feel the same way about England however, I am also enjoying spending a little time over here in NZ but that’s another story). But I also know that as much as the views on my ‘English Country Walks’, calendar exist, they are extremely romanticized. Could it also then be argued that the negatives we all know/think exist (e.g. crime, etc) are just a façade on the real England that is portrayed by these works?

Is this what it is to be English? To portray our place of birth as the bastion of civility? I think if that is the case and we do feel like this, then England will be a better place for having people spend a little time oversees. However, I guess the key is to never spend that long in a country, that you start to look below the surface and behind the calendar shots.

I have to say that I want to live in January as the water mill I see is so idyllic. Not sure how I will put food on my families table, run two cars, school the kids, blah, blah, blah but I don’t imagine that’s important as I can always move to February.

Rule Britannia! Who said the English spirit was dead.

I do believe that I have a very different perspective on the old country having spent so long away from it (well, 3 and a half years) and having travelled over much of the southern hemisphere. I DO appreciate more what I took for granted before. Endless, mind numbing droning on about how awful England is usually makes me smile wryly when I consider what I know to be true about NZ (and too a lesser extent Australia). I am realistic about England's deficiencies but it is disingenous to pretend that anywhere else is somehow 'better'. Eulogies to the English countryside should be applauded not denigrated. I wasn't dreaming when I strolled the South Downs and found beauty and peace.

Almost at the end of a long walk, and as a small silver sun was leaving a pale and frosty sky, we began to ascend a broad, heaving meadow which was bordered on our right, on its eastern side, by a long, narrow copse of ash trees. At the top of the meadow, hardly a quarter of a mile away, was a little red farmhouse -- yet not so little but that it rose with a maternal dignity among and above the sheds and stables, its children, and, like it, of antique red. The home and dependencies gave out a sense of solidity, independence and seclusion. Our hearts acknowledged at once that it was desirable, saluted it, and were calmly glad at the sight.

At that moment the tumult of a windy day was entirely gone. The north wind now lay dead upon the long white clouds in the east. The smoke from the farmhouse chimneys flowed southward along the top of the ash trees in a narrow, motionless rivulet in the calm air. Far off the hoofs of the returning hunt clattered decently, and combined with the dim memory of the wind in the trees and sedge to give to the great meadow an emphasised tranquillity like that which fills an invalid's room when others are just audibly busy about and below. We walked more and more slowly up the meadow. The red house was clear and hard in the grey air, yet with a richness and implicated shadow as of things submerged. Something which it gave out abundantly filled our minds that had for hours played with casual and untraceable thoughts and images -- descended like an enthusiasm among criticisms. In a minute the house was beautiful; it seemed to flower with the happiness of men and women and little children living melodiously; there, we thought, must be minds and bodies which, without carelessness and without stupidity, found in life what some expect from the future and some feign to remember in the past; there was character and beauty and strength, which time flowed over in vain. Hither, it seemed, had drifted upon Lethe's stream all the hopes and wishes and recollections and unaccomplished dreams of unhappy men, and had formed at last a blossoming island in the waste.

And some were enjoying that island now. The very smoke from the chimneys had goodness in it. Even as we walked we turned the moment past into a Golden Age, except that, whenever we looked up towards the house, we knew that all was not yet lost, and that a Golden Age might still succeed the last.
Edward Thomas

if national pride is important then i think it does exist in the uk but not for britain but the individual countries that make up the union. cannot help concluding that the problem with britain is the concept of britain seems now only to benefit the political classes and the normal man in the street simply picks up the tab. all the poetry in the world cannot change the fact that a lot of people are very disillusioned with the way things are here. I am lucky having lived abroad that I can see the good and bad but a lot of people take the good for granted and only see the bad.

in britain today scotland is declining with it's population reducing every day. wales is the same. england spends billions keeping these places afloat and yet the powerhouse of the union continues to decline at their expense and yet is generally attacked mostly for reasons of history that we in the present have no control over by the expat communities of wales, scotland and ireland who prosper and benefit here.

scotland seems intent on breaking the union and i personally do not see that as a bad thing. particularly now that the eu is available to act as the social umbrella these places really need.

with the union broken, all the countries will be free to re-establish their national identities without fear of upsetting the other. similar to australia, usa and new zealand where all the residents wherever their origin supposedly support their new countries wholeheartedly. history can assert itself and the english, scottish, welsh and irish may find their national prides all enhanced.

Can I say something about national pride too? I am originally Russian, my husband is Iranian. He lived in London for over twenty years, myself - ten. We never felt British, although held British passport, let alone English. So we move to Canada. And guess what's happened? Now we feel soooooo British, I could cry at the first chords of national anthem. If I hear cockney accent on TV programme, I feel homesick. I'd love to smell London underground again. I'd love to be among English and other Brits. I love it all, I never realised while I lived there (and for chrissakes, it's realiSed, not realiZed, like the do here!). And now we going back. Because, strangely enough, by moving away from Britain, we discovered our sense of belonging. We are British and we belong in Britain. So, yes, rule Britannia. :-)

I imagine allot of this pride comes from a sense of confidence in the nation. Not necessarily in those that take the reigns of power from time to time, but rather the notion of what the nation is and how it has been built on such rich tapestry.

Although many countries now allow it’s citizens dual citizenship, there was a time not too long ago that this wasn’t the case. However, to my knowledge Britain always did and made this very clear if you were to read the opening page of the passport.

I feel this was a good example, as why did Britain need to threaten you with withdrawal of citizenship just to keep you there. Britain knew you would come back…

Amen

I've been in the States 7 1/2 years and appreciate Britain more than I did when I lived there. Now that I have children I want to return "home" so that they can experience life in such a great historical country where we are not afraid to have a sense of humour!

There is plenty of national pride still around, in all its creeds and colours, different people show it in different ways, I guess some feel they don't have to shout about it from the rooftops, thats all.

Oh, I'd love to shout from the rooftops. That would be my first activity in London.

There certainly seems to be something in the view that "by going away you realise where you belong." I'm on my way back home to the UK.

I was born in England. But, if you had asked me, say, even 5 years ago if I was proud to be British, I would have answered something like "Not particularly"

But, now having spent 12+ years in Australia and 3 years working in Belgium, France and Germany, the answer is a definite "Yes!"

Of course, these are only personal views, so here come the sweeping statements...

Australia has a good lifestyle, but lacks depth, is parochial and - environment aside - is as stimulating as a dead battery.

The French have an arrogance that is staggering. And the Belgians are like the poor-man's French with a huge chip on their shoulders.

Let's not even compare Britain's economy with the rest of Europe. Working in Europe is like working in the UK 20 years ago. I used to believe in the European Commission - but, from what I have seen it is a staggering, pretty inept and corrupt bureaucracy which is way past its sell-by date.

All this has made me realise that being British was (at the very least in relative terms) pretty good.

Although I'm anti-war, what really made me feel proud to be British was a couple of books I read about the Battle of Britain (strains of "Land of Hope and Glory"? Yes, I know it was over 60 years ago, but it still made me feel very proud.

What really impressed me was the way just 1,000 airmen (mainly UK and Polish men) took on the Luftwaffe. Britain could have rolled over like a lot of European nations before it. But it didn't.

OK, it's all a bit jingoistic, but what the hell!

Just this one sentence sounds soooooo British.

Regarding the war, you are right, there is a lot to be proud of. (don't let a Russian start going on about a war! )

Amen to that Bromleygirl. I feel the same way after only 2 years in the US.
I even go around wearing an England football shirt now and I'd never dream of doing that when I was home. I appreciate the BBC a lot more now too.

Incidentally I see we live in the same city but different states!

Thanks R, When Rochester where I live always seems to get confused with your Rochester - I've even had my post sent to NY by mistake!! My Rochester was named after Rochester, NY but it's quite different.

I know what you mean about wearing "British things". I have a T-shirt with "London, England" on it which I would never have worn back home.

It's so cold here at the moment I just want to move back now!! I am going for a relocation visit for 2 weeks in March and then will move this summer if all goes according to plan.

I miss the BBC and British TV in general - Brits do it Best!!! and there is nothing like it

Oh, please, please, please, British TV.... can I have some? I've got BBC Canada and now watch stuff I would never watch before, like Eastenders. I miss meaningful drama series (Cracker, This Life, that kind of thing), that British TV produces quite often. And Big Brother... American version is just hideous.

Lucky for you! Rochester, NY isn't pretty.
All the best for your move back in the summer. I have a feeling I'll be doing the same in the not too distant future.