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Living in England as a non-resident

Living in England as a non-resident

Old Aug 5th 2022, 8:45 pm
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Default Living in England as a non-resident

I have dual US/UK citizenship, I have a home in the US. I may only stay in the UK 6 months each year, TBD if I will buy a home in England, but leaning towards that. I will have no UK work or income and no immediate family with me (husband, child). I read the residency guides and did the test quiz which said I would not be considered a resident, I realize this is not official. I also note the standard visa rules state you cannot "live in the UK for long periods of time through frequent or successive visits".
So my questions are:
1. How is "frequent or successive visits" determined? For instance would immigration question this if I make annual visits of up to 6 months?
2. Is anyone on the forum doing or has done this and is willing to share your story?
3. Are there reasons this would be a terrible idea, assuming it is allowed, legal, possible.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 9:26 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

You've already had some answers in an earlier post.

As a UK citizen you can come and go as you please - no restrictions apply to you at all

You say that you won't be receiving any income in the UK, but presume you will be receiving money in the UK to support yourself. You have mentioned that you will be receiving a UK State Pension at some time? Depending on how much that is, that will be taxed unless you can show you HRMC you are a non resident.

If you are going to spend 50/50 then have you considered whether or not you take out Medicare to cover you in the US? and if, non resident in the UK you are not covered by the NHS?

One thing I thought about which would worry me is that if living in both countries that requires maintaining two residences - property tax,, maintenance costs etc.

Last edited by SanDiegogirl; Aug 5th 2022 at 9:30 pm.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 9:42 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

1. Doesn’t apply to you if you’re a UK citizen. You can stay as long as you like.

HTH.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 9:50 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl View Post
You've already had some answers in an earlier post.

As a UK citizen you can come and go as you please - no restrictions apply to you at all

You say that you won't be receiving any income in the UK, but presume you will be receiving money in the UK to support yourself. You have mentioned that you will be receiving a UK State Pension at some time? Depending on how much that is, that will be taxed unless you can show you HRMC you are a non resident.

If you are going to spend 50/50 then have you considered whether or not you take out Medicare to cover you in the US? and if, non resident in the UK you are not covered by the NHS?

One thing I thought about which would worry me is that if living in both countries that requires maintaining two residences - property tax,, maintenance costs etc.
I will use cash/credit cards, I don't get my pension until 2027 so will decide at that time whether to be a permanent resident or have it paid to a US bank.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 9:51 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
1. Doesn’t apply to you if you’re a UK citizen. You can stay as long as you like.

HTH.
Understood, I don't want to pay taxes in UK is my issue.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 9:58 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl View Post
... As a UK citizen you can come and go as you please - no restrictions apply to you at all .....
Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
1. Doesn’t apply to you if you’re a UK citizen. You can stay as long as you like. ...
I think that the context to her statement about being limited to six months is in the thread title - she wants to visit the UK, but remain for short enough periods of time to remain "non-resident" for tax purposes. This was the problem that rock bands like Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, and Pink Floyd faced back in the 1970's when they left the UK for tax reasons and were kean to avoid liability for income tax at rates of upto 83%, and even 98% on investment income.

I believe that while she can remain non-resident, she will still be liable for tax in the UK on income remitted to the UK (aka "remittance basis of income tax"), and I am a bit rusty on this point, but owning a home in the UK might cause her to become resident too, so she could visit/ stay with family, or stay in hotel, but buying a home will, I think, cause her to fail the non-resident test. .... I am not sure about a long term rental, a traditonal rental where you have exclusive use of a home, as that might cause the same problem - as opposed to a holiday let where other people can use/ rent it when your not renting it.

Last edited by Pulaski; Aug 5th 2022 at 10:43 pm.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 10:08 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Isn't the rule of thumb that if one is in a country for less than 180 days you don't become a tax payer ?
Of course, lots of other issues need to be taken into consideration - just because you are not in the UK for more than 180 days does not mean you are not liable for taxes; especially if you have a home, pay property tax etc.

The following website looks promising:

https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/...0in%20the%20UK.

What if I am in the UK for fewer than 183 days in a tax year?

Even if you are physically present in the UK for fewer than 183 days in a tax year, it is still possible for you to be resident in the UK. You must follow the rules set out in the SRT, which can be found in HMRC’s booklet RDR3 on GOV.UK.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 10:09 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by kateg60 View Post
Understood, I don't want to pay taxes in UK is my issue.
Where are you going to live in the UK - friends, family, long term vacation rental, buy your own property?
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 10:14 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by kateg60 View Post
Understood, I don't want to pay taxes in UK is my issue.
It was in response to you asking about ‘standard visa rules’ and immigration officials - they’re not relevant to you. Being tax resident is a different issue entirely.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 10:53 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl View Post
Isn't the rule of thumb that if one is in a country for less than 180 days you don't become a tax payer ?
Of course, lots of other issues need to be taken into consideration - just because you are not in the UK for more than 180 days does not mean you are not liable for taxes; especially if you have a home, pay property tax etc.

The following website looks promising:

https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/...0in%20the%20UK.

What if I am in the UK for fewer than 183 days in a tax year?

Even if you are physically present in the UK for fewer than 183 days in a tax year, it is still possible for you to be resident in the UK. You must follow the rules set out in the SRT, which can be found in HMRC’s booklet RDR3 on GOV.UK.
Thanks for the link, I did the online test (estimating based on what I expect to do next year) and was non-resident.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
It was in response to you asking about ‘standard visa rules’ and immigration officials - they’re not relevant to you. Being tax resident is a different issue entirely.
Right, but for I was thinkig as a US citizen.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 10:56 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
I think that the context to her statement about being limited to six months is in the thread title - she wants to visit the UK, but remain for short enough periods of time to remain "non-resident" for tax purposes. This was the problem that rock bands like Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, and Pink Floyd faced back in the 1970's when they left the UK for tax reasons and were kean to avoid liability for income tax at rates of upto 83%, and even 98% on investment income.

I believe that while she can remain non-resident, she will still be liable for tax in the UK on income remitted to the UK (aka "remittance basis of income tax"), and I am a bit rusty on this point, but owning a home in the UK might cause her to become resident too, so she could visit/ stay with family, or stay in hotel, but buying a home will, I think, cause her to fail the non-resident test. .... I am not sure about a long term rental, a traditonal rental where you have exclusive use of a home, as that might cause the same problem - as opposed to a holiday let where other people can use/ rent it when your not renting it.
Exactly, I don't plan to have money remitted to the UK. As I will maintain a home in US I am unsure on the home issue also. Also the time spent in the UK will cover two tax years.
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Old Aug 5th 2022, 10:57 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Thanks all for your replies, I think I will need to discuss with a tax consultant,
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Old Aug 6th 2022, 12:25 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by kateg60 View Post
Thanks all for your replies, I think I will need to discuss with a tax consultant,
I’ve been dividing my time between US and UK since 2015 with no issues or complications at all. I’m UK and US citizen, retired, with a deliberately low income. (My wife and I are basically living on accumulated after-tax savings and modest US Social Security.) Of necessity, this changes a bit from this year, as we both will be 72 and so are starting to take RMD from our 403b, IRA, and various other tax-advantaged retirement savings.

The context is that I bought a flat in England for cash in 2015, thinking my wife would agree to move to England full-time, but she’d rather stay put in the US, so I’ve been spending four or five months a year in England on my own. (I tell her it saves on the dishwashing, as I eat my meals standing over the sink to catch any crumbs.)
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Old Aug 6th 2022, 12:59 pm
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Default Re: Living in England as a non-resident

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl View Post
One thing I thought about which would worry me is that if living in both countries that requires maintaining two residences - property tax,, maintenance costs etc.
This is a slight issue for me, especially since 2020 because I’ve hardly spent any time in England because of the pandemic.

I’m paying council tax, ground rent, service charge, water, electricity, internet, and TV license fee. Honestly, though, these are all fairly modest and not a cause for worry - especially compared to typical American charges!

For instance, council tax is about £1000. Internet/landline, £35 a month. Service charge on the flat, about £1200 a year. So, manageable, when compared to renting self catering cottages etc. for a month or two each year.

Also, I paid £140,000 for the flat in 2015, a couple of flats in the building have sold for £190,000 recently. And mine has a better view.
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