Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

I'm not sure if soccer versus football has ever been discussed on BE?

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

I don't believe so, or at least not today so far. :rolleyes:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Not sure why soccer should be discussed. It is an English word, I am sure. My school certainly referred to it as soccer back in the 30s or earlier
There used to be a board in the Hall for the captains of all the sports teams, and
soccer was there.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

There's a vociferous minority of BE members in the US who hold an unshakable belief that "soccer" is an abominable US word, and completely ignore it's widespread use in the UK.

I am not sure if the revulsion is caused by the word itself, or because the word "football" has been coopted in the US for a local debased form of rugby. :unsure:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

I never hear football referred to as soccer here, either personally in Scotland or on telly. I have got strange looks before when I have reverted to the US "soccer" term. I think it is looked at as an outdated term these days - a bit like "rugger".

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Yes, I would say outdated over there. Have never heard it used in the normal run of conversation.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

"The USA are in the knockout rounds of the Soccerball World Trophy" = "England **** up in the World Cup".

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Interesting. Perhaps its adoption by the US also led to a reaction against that word in the UK. :unsure: I seem to remember it being widely used when I was at school, but unfortunately that was, er, several years ago now. :rolleyes:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Hmm. The plot thickens.
I have looked online, and the origin of soccer is defined as British late nineteenth century abbreviation of Association.

HOWEVER, my ancient printed edition of the Complete Oxford has NO mention of soccer.
My main complaint about the OED is that it includes too many words of uncertain origin. I would really be surprised if the word did exist but was not mentioned in the OED.

Anyone have any better origin?

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

This would explain it then. I myself live in the 1950s.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

No, this is correct. (Association versus Rugby.) I believe it is all laid out in the OED, 1998 print edition and online edition.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Bit of a First World Problem we've got going on here :lol:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

But, if it were true (and I believed it was) surely, dating from the nineteenth century, it would have been in the 1930s edition as well as the 1971 edition?

And it is not.

More enlightenment needed.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

I've also always thought that soccer comes from Association. The two forms of football in the UK in the 19th C. were Association and Rugby Football = soccer & rugger.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Used at my school by the Welsh games teachers for whom rugby was football.:lol:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Maybe that's where/why I heard it - at my school the winter game was rugby; soccer was not an option. (This was not in Wales.)

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

The difference between Americans and the English is that Americans think 100 years is a long time and that the English think 100 miles is a long way!

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Hmm not sure how to explain that. I must admit I've only looked at the entry in the latest print ed (1998) and the online edition, which is basically the 1998 edition, updated continuously. When I get to the library I'll see if I can find a paper trail in older dictionaries...

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Maybe in the 1930's it was considered to be slang, an informal abbreviation, or otherwise not worthy of inclusion in a reference to the proper use of the King's English. :unsure:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

According to reference 4 in this article http://ns.umich.edu/Releases/2014/Ju...not-soccer.pdf "soccer" was first included in the 1891 edition of the OED. :confused:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Really interesting article Novo. Thank you. Seem pretty conclusive, and very much in tune with everything one reads online.

So why did it NOT appear in between? It is not in my 1971 edition, which is the miniaturised full copy, and which I have always understood to be just an updated edition of the 1930s one, unlike the 1998 complete rewrite?

Unfortunately, I will not be able to get into the Bodleian before the autumn. So Robin please let me know how you get on.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

I suppose we'd have to consult a library copy of the 1891 ed. to be sure, but perhaps "soccer" was merely mention as an abr. in the entry for Football or Association Football?

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Yup I have that ed in my library, but I'm on holiday now, poor me!

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

There have been a pile of programmes on British tv with 'soccer' in the title over the years including Soccer Sunday in the 70s and Soccer AM now. I'm sure we called it soccer at school in the 70s. (From an Aus perspective, I've never worked out why Aussie Rules is called football when they rarely touch the ball with their feet.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Same reason (American) football is, ........ whatever reason that is? :unsure:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

The UK doesn't have "y'all", or any equivalent; how do they manage? :lol:

I could revert to most British idiom and pronunciation fairly easily if I returned to the UK, but I suspect that "y'all" would be hard to drop for lack of an equivalent. :unsure:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

I use American when in England just to annoy folks.
Y'all
Wicked (wicked hot, wicked bad etc.)
Liberry for library
You guys, even when the group includes women.
Dude

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Quiche.

(Ja'mie).

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Come on!

"Real men don't eat quiche".

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

There's hot and then there's quiche.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

The equivalent phrase is " Aal ye buggars".

HTH

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

The only time I use "you guys" is when I address my dogs. Collectively, they are "you guys!". I haven't yet come up with a British equivalent unfortunately.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

"yous" is the nearest equivalent I can think of. But I think that it is a bit dialect restrictive.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

I think the problem with English is that it has dropped the second person singular form of verbs, again with a few regional dialectical exceptions (notably in Yarkshire) leaving "you" as singular and plural, but it is so often used as singular pronoun that an apparent vacuum has developed that has been filled in regional dialects by "y'all", "yous", "you uns"/ "y'uns", etc., but without an "approved" standard word to fill the gap.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

My Englishman stumped me the first time he told me to be careful when turning left by the "central reservation on the dual carriageway" (we were in the car), and it took me awhile to realize he was talking about the "median" in the highway. It also annoys him when I call a tissue a "Kleenex," but thinks it's perfectly fine to "Hoover" instead of vacuum... :)

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

You all.

You lot.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

You realize you can't own an Englishman, at least not a genuine one, don't you? :unsure:

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

Oh come on. You're owned. I'm owned. Just go with the flow.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

But surely that would mean one could buy "first prize in the lottery of life".

That can't be right.

Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 

You can buy everything, in America. Or so I've heard.