i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
Dec 3rd 2018, 4:36 pm
#31
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
I understand your point. He dismisses my needs. At the same time he's the one working full time with the higher salary. Do I ask him to give up his dream job for life for something uncertain? Yes he could love the future job in the EU, but what if he doesn't. He would blame me for it. That's why I think,being an academic, that taking a sabbatical is a low risk way of doing this. He'd earn less in Europe but the experience would be good I feel. I'm not insisting he move to my home country - life would be very hard for him there not speaking the language and I think his 'masculinity' would be affected having to depend on me to do everything. (As happens in the summers where I go with the kids for 2 months and he visits now and then).
I am OK just anywhere in Europe, Scandinavia we both love, UK too.
He would say he doesn't feel he can learn or function at a high level there, because he considers his field undeveloped there. But he does already collaborate with academics there and has connections. I don't think it would be hard to wangle a sabbatical of 1-2 years. My hope would be he likes the lifestyle so much (real vacations - he has NO vacations here.. people around him just look down on more than a few days off, he's become overweight and just works all the time) that he decides to quite the job in the US and we move to Europe permanently.
On a purely selfish level, for my own happiness I should divorce, but I am worried of the impact it would have on the kids, not to mention what if he fights for the kids with me. I would want them in Europe, what if a judge blocks that. He's the higher earning parent.
Thank you all..
I am OK just anywhere in Europe, Scandinavia we both love, UK too.
He would say he doesn't feel he can learn or function at a high level there, because he considers his field undeveloped there. But he does already collaborate with academics there and has connections. I don't think it would be hard to wangle a sabbatical of 1-2 years. My hope would be he likes the lifestyle so much (real vacations - he has NO vacations here.. people around him just look down on more than a few days off, he's become overweight and just works all the time) that he decides to quite the job in the US and we move to Europe permanently.
On a purely selfish level, for my own happiness I should divorce, but I am worried of the impact it would have on the kids, not to mention what if he fights for the kids with me. I would want them in Europe, what if a judge blocks that. He's the higher earning parent.
Thank you all..
Last edited by pannacotta; Dec 3rd 2018 at 4:48 pm.
Dec 3rd 2018, 5:11 pm
#32
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
This is meant kindly - stop trying to manage his career. He is using it as an excuse to not move, and whatever option you research and find, he will find another objection.
You seem to be stuck on the point of thinking that if you could just get him there, then he'd have a Damascene moment and love it and want to stay. Surely he knows enough about it from visits etc to know whether it is something he'd want to do? Give him credit for knowing his own mind.
Putting it bluntly - put all your effort into building a new life for you and the kids. You may find that separation within the US at first may make you happier, without the constant disappointment of an unloving spouse. Did you get your US citizenship?
You seem to be stuck on the point of thinking that if you could just get him there, then he'd have a Damascene moment and love it and want to stay. Surely he knows enough about it from visits etc to know whether it is something he'd want to do? Give him credit for knowing his own mind.
Putting it bluntly - put all your effort into building a new life for you and the kids. You may find that separation within the US at first may make you happier, without the constant disappointment of an unloving spouse. Did you get your US citizenship?
Dec 3rd 2018, 5:22 pm
#33
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
Hi yellowroom
I got citizenship. In fact it was because of this forum that I decided to apply ("make sure you can go where your kids are" someone said - i.e. don't close off any doors) even though my feelings have not changed.
I am talking to a divorce lawyer this week to get an idea of what happens to kids. Do they decide which parent to live with? How is this decided? This is one of my biggest questions. I would not feel OK leaving them behind and just taking myself to Europe so I want to know the answers to this before broaching the subject with him.
Has anyone out there done this?
I got citizenship. In fact it was because of this forum that I decided to apply ("make sure you can go where your kids are" someone said - i.e. don't close off any doors) even though my feelings have not changed.
I am talking to a divorce lawyer this week to get an idea of what happens to kids. Do they decide which parent to live with? How is this decided? This is one of my biggest questions. I would not feel OK leaving them behind and just taking myself to Europe so I want to know the answers to this before broaching the subject with him.
Has anyone out there done this?
Dec 4th 2018, 2:26 pm
#34
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Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
I don't wish to seem trite but I followed a link from an article in the guardian today about a movie called The Escape.
I've not seen it but it just seems so relevant.
I've not seen it but it just seems so relevant.
Dec 4th 2018, 3:16 pm
#35
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
I understand your point. He dismisses my needs. At the same time he's the one working full time with the higher salary. Do I ask him to give up his dream job for life for something uncertain? Yes he could love the future job in the EU, but what if he doesn't. He would blame me for it. That's why I think,being an academic, that taking a sabbatical is a low risk way of doing this. He'd earn less in Europe but the experience would be good I feel. I'm not insisting he move to my home country - life would be very hard for him there not speaking the language and I think his 'masculinity' would be affected having to depend on me to do everything. (As happens in the summers where I go with the kids for 2 months and he visits now and then).
I am OK just anywhere in Europe, Scandinavia we both love, UK too.
He would say he doesn't feel he can learn or function at a high level there, because he considers his field undeveloped there. But he does already collaborate with academics there and has connections. I don't think it would be hard to wangle a sabbatical of 1-2 years. My hope would be he likes the lifestyle so much (real vacations - he has NO vacations here.. people around him just look down on more than a few days off, he's become overweight and just works all the time) that he decides to quite the job in the US and we move to Europe permanently.
On a purely selfish level, for my own happiness I should divorce, but I am worried of the impact it would have on the kids, not to mention what if he fights for the kids with me. I would want them in Europe, what if a judge blocks that. He's the higher earning parent.
Thank you all..
I am OK just anywhere in Europe, Scandinavia we both love, UK too.
He would say he doesn't feel he can learn or function at a high level there, because he considers his field undeveloped there. But he does already collaborate with academics there and has connections. I don't think it would be hard to wangle a sabbatical of 1-2 years. My hope would be he likes the lifestyle so much (real vacations - he has NO vacations here.. people around him just look down on more than a few days off, he's become overweight and just works all the time) that he decides to quite the job in the US and we move to Europe permanently.
On a purely selfish level, for my own happiness I should divorce, but I am worried of the impact it would have on the kids, not to mention what if he fights for the kids with me. I would want them in Europe, what if a judge blocks that. He's the higher earning parent.
Thank you all..
I still think counselling can't hurt and sometimes skilled counselling can help with difficult conversations, and adding Christmas vacation in Europe to summer vacations may start helping in the situation- making it easier to be put up with being in the USA, or maybe he will wake up on Christmas day and have a revelation.
As far as divorcing and wanting to take the children to Europe, without an amicable process that can be a huge problem and adversarial process which can lead to a very negative situation for all concerned. An aggressive lawyer can delay that outcome for quite a time and it isnt necessarily a given that you will get permission in the end.It also depends on what state you are in as different states handle things in different ways. It certainly would be conceivable that in an adversarial situation he could petition the court immediately to have you turn over your and your children's passports immediately until the case is resolved (this happened to two people I know).
Dec 4th 2018, 9:24 pm
#36
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
BristolUk - thank you for The Escape movie.. I am religiously on the Guardian but that one slipped by and I hadn't seen it. I watched the trailer with tears streaming down my face. Am a bit of a crybaby these days.
Morpeth - yes I am being wary of legal things. The lawyer today was all gung ho. Of course, it's his business. I dont' think we're quite ready to call it a day (emotionally I feel I am but for the sake of kids I want to see if it can be fixed). Last night he was all nice, said he'd do anything to make me happy. I saw I want to move back to Europe. Silence. 'I'd earn a fraction of what I earn now' I explained money isn't everything. We would be OK with planning. I would work more. He said he does' like to be 'backed into a corner' I said I have been asking this, as well as encouraging him to learn my language, for years and nothing has moved. No efforts to find even a temporary job overseas, no enrolling in languages classes or even trying to talk to me (our kids are bilingual) in simple language.
I said I see zero effort. So am I supposed to wait forever. I am also having physical (joint) problems associated with ageing - am only late 40s) and do I wait till I am in bad shape before I move back, having spent 20 yrs waiting for a move on his part? Do I wait till the kids are in college? another 8-9 years? How much longer? Now? I feel very lonely and unsure what to do. If I were childless I would have activated divorce a long time ago but I know how painful it is for kids.
Morpeth - yes I am being wary of legal things. The lawyer today was all gung ho. Of course, it's his business. I dont' think we're quite ready to call it a day (emotionally I feel I am but for the sake of kids I want to see if it can be fixed). Last night he was all nice, said he'd do anything to make me happy. I saw I want to move back to Europe. Silence. 'I'd earn a fraction of what I earn now' I explained money isn't everything. We would be OK with planning. I would work more. He said he does' like to be 'backed into a corner' I said I have been asking this, as well as encouraging him to learn my language, for years and nothing has moved. No efforts to find even a temporary job overseas, no enrolling in languages classes or even trying to talk to me (our kids are bilingual) in simple language.
I said I see zero effort. So am I supposed to wait forever. I am also having physical (joint) problems associated with ageing - am only late 40s) and do I wait till I am in bad shape before I move back, having spent 20 yrs waiting for a move on his part? Do I wait till the kids are in college? another 8-9 years? How much longer? Now? I feel very lonely and unsure what to do. If I were childless I would have activated divorce a long time ago but I know how painful it is for kids.
Dec 4th 2018, 9:47 pm
#37
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
I think divorce is preferable for your children than living in an unhappy home. I'd certainly give counselling a go and see if you can salvage this relationship. Obviously we have only got your side of the story but your husband sounds very selfish to me, what lesson is this giving your children? Marriage should be about mutual compromise, from what you say it all seems very one-sided to me.
Just my two-penneth!
Just my two-penneth!
Dec 4th 2018, 9:56 pm
#38
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
I think divorce is preferable for your children than living in an unhappy home. I'd certainly give counselling a go and see if you can salvage this relationship. Obviously we have only got your side of the story but your husband sounds very selfish to me, what lesson is this giving your children? Marriage should be about mutual compromise, from what you say it all seems very one-sided to me.
Just my two-penneth!
Just my two-penneth!
I really think it's better for children to grow up with parents who are happy and fulfilled in their lives . Whether that is a 2 parent household or 2 homes.
Dec 4th 2018, 10:00 pm
#39
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
Dec 5th 2018, 12:30 am
#40
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
Hi all
It’a so surreal- like cold war in the house. Then we talk about kid admin stuff like it’s all normal.
Of course there are 2 sides. Objectively he would say that he has a good job, stability, tenure, intellectual stimulation and he can’t imagine giving that up. ‘what could I find that is better?’ (not looking is a sure way of not finding). His family is very very risk averse, his parents over the moon that he is ‘settled’ and with ‘job for life’. They are practical post war mentailty people and I understand that.
He would say ‘you spend the summers in Europe with the kids’, he would say ‘you aren’t the main earner so we have to think about how much less I would earn there’
Deep down there is a fear (he doesn’t admit this) of living outside the only country he’s lived in. He lived in many states (US) growing up, and in 3 states (including this one) since becoming adult. This is his second job since university whereas I have had many as my job entailed lots of moving around which I loved. When we married I made it clear I am the kind of person who moves country every few years and he seemed OK with that and said he’d welcome a change of career and country. I was OK staying put while kids were small. Now he denies saying that and I feel desperate .
It would be a big thing to give all this job stability and interest up outright and right now. But if he accepts the idea of sabbaticals then at least I open the door to living abroad. And when he is older with the contacts we forge abroad perhaps he will consider moving permanently.
I know that if it continues to be no no no then I have to leave. The issue of child custody is a big one. If my kids decide to stay in the states would I have the guts to go? Would he still refuse to even look at temporary overseas jobs if I say I am leaving.
It’s not a normal job as I said, with retirement age. He has colleagues who are 85 and still working.. so you can appreciate that feeling this is it - for the rest of my life fills me with a quiet desperation.
I dread the drive home to the burbs, darkness falling.
If he moved to Europe because I force him, even if I manage to.. he will, I think, blame me for everything he doesn’t like there.
It’a so surreal- like cold war in the house. Then we talk about kid admin stuff like it’s all normal.
Of course there are 2 sides. Objectively he would say that he has a good job, stability, tenure, intellectual stimulation and he can’t imagine giving that up. ‘what could I find that is better?’ (not looking is a sure way of not finding). His family is very very risk averse, his parents over the moon that he is ‘settled’ and with ‘job for life’. They are practical post war mentailty people and I understand that.
He would say ‘you spend the summers in Europe with the kids’, he would say ‘you aren’t the main earner so we have to think about how much less I would earn there’
Deep down there is a fear (he doesn’t admit this) of living outside the only country he’s lived in. He lived in many states (US) growing up, and in 3 states (including this one) since becoming adult. This is his second job since university whereas I have had many as my job entailed lots of moving around which I loved. When we married I made it clear I am the kind of person who moves country every few years and he seemed OK with that and said he’d welcome a change of career and country. I was OK staying put while kids were small. Now he denies saying that and I feel desperate .
It would be a big thing to give all this job stability and interest up outright and right now. But if he accepts the idea of sabbaticals then at least I open the door to living abroad. And when he is older with the contacts we forge abroad perhaps he will consider moving permanently.
I know that if it continues to be no no no then I have to leave. The issue of child custody is a big one. If my kids decide to stay in the states would I have the guts to go? Would he still refuse to even look at temporary overseas jobs if I say I am leaving.
It’s not a normal job as I said, with retirement age. He has colleagues who are 85 and still working.. so you can appreciate that feeling this is it - for the rest of my life fills me with a quiet desperation.
I dread the drive home to the burbs, darkness falling.
If he moved to Europe because I force him, even if I manage to.. he will, I think, blame me for everything he doesn’t like there.
Dec 5th 2018, 1:49 am
#41
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,613
Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
Shouldn't this be more about love.
Do you love him ? Enough to accept your life.
Does he love you? Enough to accept a change.
If you guys are unhappy with each other and yourselves , then time for the candid talk about separating. Where you each end up comes later.
Do you love him ? Enough to accept your life.
Does he love you? Enough to accept a change.
If you guys are unhappy with each other and yourselves , then time for the candid talk about separating. Where you each end up comes later.
Dec 5th 2018, 6:37 pm
#42
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Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
I also wonder about his work. Is it really the case that Europe is so far behind in his field?
Professor Novocastrian might have a better idea about this.
Professor Novocastrian might have a better idea about this.
Dec 5th 2018, 7:28 pm
#43
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Buraydah , Saudi Arabia
Posts: 2,863
Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
What's with all this counselling rubbish?
Dec 5th 2018, 8:34 pm
#45
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.
I understand your point. He dismisses my needs. At the same time he's the one working full time with the higher salary. Do I ask him to give up his dream job for life for something uncertain? Yes he could love the future job in the EU, but what if he doesn't. He would blame me for it. That's why I think,being an academic, that taking a sabbatical is a low risk way of doing this. He'd earn less in Europe but the experience would be good I feel. I'm not insisting he move to my home country - life would be very hard for him there not speaking the language and I think his 'masculinity' would be affected having to depend on me to do everything. (As happens in the summers where I go with the kids for 2 months and he visits now and then).
I am OK just anywhere in Europe, Scandinavia we both love, UK too.
He would say he doesn't feel he can learn or function at a high level there, because he considers his field undeveloped there. But he does already collaborate with academics there and has connections. I don't think it would be hard to wangle a sabbatical of 1-2 years. My hope would be he likes the lifestyle so much (real vacations - he has NO vacations here.. people around him just look down on more than a few days off, he's become overweight and just works all the time) that he decides to quite the job in the US and we move to Europe permanently.
On a purely selfish level, for my own happiness I should divorce, but I am worried of the impact it would have on the kids, not to mention what if he fights for the kids with me. I would want them in Europe, what if a judge blocks that. He's the higher earning parent.
Thank you all..
I am OK just anywhere in Europe, Scandinavia we both love, UK too.
He would say he doesn't feel he can learn or function at a high level there, because he considers his field undeveloped there. But he does already collaborate with academics there and has connections. I don't think it would be hard to wangle a sabbatical of 1-2 years. My hope would be he likes the lifestyle so much (real vacations - he has NO vacations here.. people around him just look down on more than a few days off, he's become overweight and just works all the time) that he decides to quite the job in the US and we move to Europe permanently.
On a purely selfish level, for my own happiness I should divorce, but I am worried of the impact it would have on the kids, not to mention what if he fights for the kids with me. I would want them in Europe, what if a judge blocks that. He's the higher earning parent.
Thank you all..
I also wonder about his work. Is it really the case that Europe is so far behind in his field?
Professor Novocastrian might have a better idea about this.
Professor Novocastrian might have a better idea about this.