I hate it when people ask this
Jan 18th 2009, 6:36 pm
#16
Member
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 331
Re: I hate it when people ask this
I feel the need to respond. I realize that I've not met every Canadian and that my observations are limited to those I have met but I find the culture I'm observing is cold, unsympathetic and indifferent, and this seems to be confirmed by comments from others too.
At the risk of offending some, I need to emphasize to people how much of an impact this cultural characteristic has destabilized my situation and how much this is now drawing me back to Britain.
Of course I'm also NOT saying that everyone in Britain is warm, welcoming and sensitive; very far from it. But neighbourhood friendship is IMO much more prevalent in UK than anywhere I've lived in Vancouver. And I believe this is a cultural thing, because this is quite widely observed by other Brits.
Jan 18th 2009, 11:11 pm
#17
Still alive
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,995
Re: I hate it when people ask this
And some of us eastern Canadians, too. Like I said earlier in my post, I think you would find other parts of Canada much more welcoming than the lower mainland of BC. I know from my own experience that the Atlantic provinces are much more welcoming.
I do wish you luck with whatever decision you and your wife eventually make. I know how difficult it can be to feel isolated in a sea of thousands.
I do wish you luck with whatever decision you and your wife eventually make. I know how difficult it can be to feel isolated in a sea of thousands.
Jan 19th 2009, 4:57 am
#18
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: I hate it when people ask this
re: networking. industry events. people's parties. but yes, if you're not in the know with someone it is hard to get invited to stuff like this. I don't know what industry you're in but in my OH's, you basically have to start at the bottom to get anywhere if you're new to town.
re: neighbourhood. I don't agree necessarily. Yes, if you're in an older, established area like north van. but where I live - mainly settled by italian migrants - we've found our neighbours very friendly. Also, if you buy in a new development it's easier to make friends. I'm not surprised you're having trouble in north van though.
re: neighbourhood. I don't agree necessarily. Yes, if you're in an older, established area like north van. but where I live - mainly settled by italian migrants - we've found our neighbours very friendly. Also, if you buy in a new development it's easier to make friends. I'm not surprised you're having trouble in north van though.
Jan 19th 2009, 5:57 am
#19
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 22
Re: I hate it when people ask this
I'm not into committee decisions or making life changing decisions based on opinions of people who I don't know too well, but I'm going to take a chance here.
One cannot hang around too long on the Moving Back forum without it becoming evident that you've either done it or planning on it. Well for me and my family it's the latter.
Here's the situation. Been in Vancouver since 2005 and got PR about a year ago. However wife is really unhappy living here for so many reasons. She never really settled and finds it difficult to make friends in Canada. Actually I know where she's coming from. I've not been remotely impressed with Canadians or Americans for that matter. Brits over here have put this into perspective.
I had a project cancelled on my late last year and despite working full time to get job applications out, haven't had any luck or even a sniff. This is diabolical as I've always been in a high employment situation. I know there's a credit crunch and the media love gloating and scaremongering about the impending gloom. However I'm in a field that should flourish in a weakened economy.
However I've been out of work for a few months. So thoughts of moving back to UK have more than crossed our mind. Of course everyone there is saying "don't move back, don't move back" but I see this as a case of the grass is greener in reverse. Having researched it, there are plenty of opportunities every day for my skills so I don't anticipate having an issue getting back into work.
While I see more opportunities in UK than here for me, I'm not convinced my wife will actually be happy there either. She falls out with the neighbours and then finds reasons to want to go back. Or finds there's problems with schools here and decides we need to leave Canada.
I don't object to moving back but it will financially cripple us and I'm also concerned of the knock on effect on our relationship. Staying here out of work is also not an option, and I find this places really sucks in hard times, far more than Britain. I've never been homesick but with the bull-crap going on at the moment feel an desperate need to have friends and family around, even if they haven't proven to be so wonderful since we emigrated.
At the moment we're kind of in confused agreement that we're moving back. Of course I'm not sure whether we'll even be able to sell our house although we have a realtor who just wont' leave us alone. I'm really uneasy about doing so because even though I really want to get back into work and I'm not 100% happy in Canada, I am worried for the can of worms that might be opened in moving back.
The other point is that the PR has a 2 year residency requirement in any 5. My understanding is that if I got it January 1, 2008 then if by Janary 1, 2013 I have 2 years residency I can renew the PR card for another 5 years. For this we'd have to remain in Canada until about end of Feb 2010.
The other thing keeping me here is citizenship. As we have time in Canada, we can count some of it towards our citizenship requirement. We want this for our kids as much as anything. I calculated that we'd qualify with 1095 days (the qualifying requirement) some time early April 2010.
So if we left late summer we'd be within a few months of a chance to renew our PR for another 5 years when it expires, and about 8 months from being able to apply for citizenship. My intuition tells me we should stay come what may for this, but I'm not even sure I enjoy living here any more. Why stick my neck out to get something I might never use? Yes we could do it for the kids but perhaps they won't use it either.
Anyway sorry for the long text with a few hidden questions in there. This group is excellent for helping people clarify their confusion, even if the answer doesn't come from another member. I appreciate any thoughts and opinions on our situation, even though the decision will ultimately be a personal not a logical one.
One cannot hang around too long on the Moving Back forum without it becoming evident that you've either done it or planning on it. Well for me and my family it's the latter.
Here's the situation. Been in Vancouver since 2005 and got PR about a year ago. However wife is really unhappy living here for so many reasons. She never really settled and finds it difficult to make friends in Canada. Actually I know where she's coming from. I've not been remotely impressed with Canadians or Americans for that matter. Brits over here have put this into perspective.
I had a project cancelled on my late last year and despite working full time to get job applications out, haven't had any luck or even a sniff. This is diabolical as I've always been in a high employment situation. I know there's a credit crunch and the media love gloating and scaremongering about the impending gloom. However I'm in a field that should flourish in a weakened economy.
However I've been out of work for a few months. So thoughts of moving back to UK have more than crossed our mind. Of course everyone there is saying "don't move back, don't move back" but I see this as a case of the grass is greener in reverse. Having researched it, there are plenty of opportunities every day for my skills so I don't anticipate having an issue getting back into work.
While I see more opportunities in UK than here for me, I'm not convinced my wife will actually be happy there either. She falls out with the neighbours and then finds reasons to want to go back. Or finds there's problems with schools here and decides we need to leave Canada.
I don't object to moving back but it will financially cripple us and I'm also concerned of the knock on effect on our relationship. Staying here out of work is also not an option, and I find this places really sucks in hard times, far more than Britain. I've never been homesick but with the bull-crap going on at the moment feel an desperate need to have friends and family around, even if they haven't proven to be so wonderful since we emigrated.
At the moment we're kind of in confused agreement that we're moving back. Of course I'm not sure whether we'll even be able to sell our house although we have a realtor who just wont' leave us alone. I'm really uneasy about doing so because even though I really want to get back into work and I'm not 100% happy in Canada, I am worried for the can of worms that might be opened in moving back.
The other point is that the PR has a 2 year residency requirement in any 5. My understanding is that if I got it January 1, 2008 then if by Janary 1, 2013 I have 2 years residency I can renew the PR card for another 5 years. For this we'd have to remain in Canada until about end of Feb 2010.
The other thing keeping me here is citizenship. As we have time in Canada, we can count some of it towards our citizenship requirement. We want this for our kids as much as anything. I calculated that we'd qualify with 1095 days (the qualifying requirement) some time early April 2010.
So if we left late summer we'd be within a few months of a chance to renew our PR for another 5 years when it expires, and about 8 months from being able to apply for citizenship. My intuition tells me we should stay come what may for this, but I'm not even sure I enjoy living here any more. Why stick my neck out to get something I might never use? Yes we could do it for the kids but perhaps they won't use it either.
Anyway sorry for the long text with a few hidden questions in there. This group is excellent for helping people clarify their confusion, even if the answer doesn't come from another member. I appreciate any thoughts and opinions on our situation, even though the decision will ultimately be a personal not a logical one.
Jan 19th 2009, 7:14 am
#20
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: I hate it when people ask this
was that really necessary?
Jan 19th 2009, 7:52 am
#21
Just hanging around
Joined: May 2008
Location: Back in England
Posts: 1,447
Re: I hate it when people ask this
However, here in BC if you have a passionate interest and find a group that shares it, you'll probably be accepted. From stamp collecting to environmentalism.
They say, and I've seen it work, that one way to network here for work is to volunteer. A lot of business people get involved in charities and such, from food banks to arts, and if you can volunteer your particular skills it can lead to something.
And a true local pub is a special place. Here pubs tend to be entertainment destinations. Lots of loud music and people from all over, so it's not a casual meeting place. A lot of them and hotel bars are sports bars, which is great if you're into hockey or CFL.
Stating the obvious, but a foreign country has foreign social ways and it takes a lot to figure them out. And even when we do, sometimes it's just not us.
Bev
Jan 20th 2009, 11:25 am
#22
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Joined: Jan 2005
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 331
Jan 20th 2009, 11:43 am
#23
BE Co-Founder
Joined: Feb 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 25,928
Re: I hate it when people ask this
From the Site Rules:
BritishExpats.com is an interactive site, and everyone who participates is "in it together", please treat others the way you wish to be treated. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult or personal attack.
Jan 20th 2009, 1:04 pm
#24
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Poland
Posts: 577
Re: I hate it when people ask this
[QUOTE=g_is_for_canada;7186178]
I don't know how people tolerate the employment market in Vancouver. Almost no jobs are posted with salaries. You're not allowed to call them and they won't acknowledge they received your application, won't give you updates about important changes that directly impact candidates (e.g. the post has been withdrawn or on hold), and don't bother giving you a call to say you've been unsuccessful.
QUOTE]
Everybody who leaves England, including foreigners like me, miss this
British cultural angle terribly. You could just cry and cry!
Or you can get used to it in return for a bigger home and a bigger car.
The type of tightly controlled hiring process you talk about is only possible where the firm has plenty of money and the aim is to keep things civilized.
If you find a firm that has both dont forget to publish their tel.
I don't know how people tolerate the employment market in Vancouver. Almost no jobs are posted with salaries. You're not allowed to call them and they won't acknowledge they received your application, won't give you updates about important changes that directly impact candidates (e.g. the post has been withdrawn or on hold), and don't bother giving you a call to say you've been unsuccessful.
QUOTE]
Everybody who leaves England, including foreigners like me, miss this
British cultural angle terribly. You could just cry and cry!
Or you can get used to it in return for a bigger home and a bigger car.
The type of tightly controlled hiring process you talk about is only possible where the firm has plenty of money and the aim is to keep things civilized.
If you find a firm that has both dont forget to publish their tel.
Jan 20th 2009, 1:58 pm
#25
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 18
Re: I hate it when people ask this
Presumably this goes on for ever!
Where in Van do people network if it's the done thing?
Jan 20th 2009, 4:26 pm
#26
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 331
Re: I hate it when people ask this
Frustrating thing is some of the positions I applied for were pulled by the hiring manager. It makes 100% difference ignoring people because the position has vanished, and ignoring them because they were unsuccessful.
It doesn't cost much to send a quick bulk email to unsuccessful candidates assuming that companies do have multiple candidates going for a position. It's a bit surprising to read what altered ego has written. I am aware the recruiting process is pretty laid back, which is fine if your the hiring manager but not so much fun on the other end. Oh well...
It doesn't cost much to send a quick bulk email to unsuccessful candidates assuming that companies do have multiple candidates going for a position. It's a bit surprising to read what altered ego has written. I am aware the recruiting process is pretty laid back, which is fine if your the hiring manager but not so much fun on the other end. Oh well...
I have found the same thing. I talked to some people here and who said it's common for you to get a call about a job 6months after applying (and hearing nothing in the meantime) you tell them you now have another job - and the ad just goes back out again - they only consider one person at a time.
Presumably this goes on for ever!
Meetup.com groups, user groups / profesional body events
Presumably this goes on for ever!
Meetup.com groups, user groups / profesional body events
Jan 21st 2009, 6:29 am
#27
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 18
Re: I hate it when people ask this
I am aware the recruiting process is pretty laid back,
It seems to apply to everybody from international corporations to little startups (I'm in software) which is what I don't understand.
Jan 21st 2009, 6:50 am
#28
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Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Formerly Montreal now Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 545
Re: I hate it when people ask this
I must say I do find the Canadians in general very friendly but then I am in Quebec, which you could say is almost a different country to the rest of Canada.
As another poster says, Canada is very tough if you are down on your luck, much harder than the UK. The recession is lagging about 6 months behind the UK because oil prices did hold up for few months, but now they have collapsed and the engine of Canadian growth ie the oilsands has come to a halt. I think Canada is going to get it just as hard as Britain.
I personally prefer the UK, I know I am in a minority, but we are coming back to live in Oxfordshire in June and I'm very happy about that
Jan 21st 2009, 11:37 am
#29
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Joined: Jan 2005
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 331
Re: I hate it when people ask this
I am not of the opinion that you have to be friends with those you work with. But I can always identify people I dislike, those I can get on with and those I could be good friends with. I find the latter disappointingly missing from MY work experiences in Vancouver.
You're right about networks being two-way. This is surely justification for treating people with an ounce of respect. Failing to reply to applicants is simply treating real people, some of whom are without a job, as materials. My work situation has driven me to needing counseling (not job counseling but counseling). Unfortunately while I'd love to stay in Vancouver, I don't know how long my mental health is going to tolerate it. I'm hoping for an 11th hour solution but it's getting really close now.
Jan 21st 2009, 7:23 pm
#30
Éireann go Brách
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: White Man in Hammersmith Palais
Posts: 2,932
Re: I hate it when people ask this
And some of us eastern Canadians, too. Like I said earlier in my post, I think you would find other parts of Canada much more welcoming than the lower mainland of BC. I know from my own experience that the Atlantic provinces are much more welcoming.
I do wish you luck with whatever decision you and your wife eventually make. I know how difficult it can be to feel isolated in a sea of thousands.
I do wish you luck with whatever decision you and your wife eventually make. I know how difficult it can be to feel isolated in a sea of thousands.
