g_is_for_canada

I'm not into committee decisions or making life changing decisions based on opinions of people who I don't know too well, but I'm going to take a chance here.

One cannot hang around too long on the Moving Back forum without it becoming evident that you've either done it or planning on it. Well for me and my family it's the latter.

Here's the situation. Been in Vancouver since 2005 and got PR about a year ago. However wife is really unhappy living here for so many reasons. She never really settled and finds it difficult to make friends in Canada. Actually I know where she's coming from. I've not been remotely impressed with Canadians or Americans for that matter. Brits over here have put this into perspective.

I had a project cancelled on my late last year and despite working full time to get job applications out, haven't had any luck or even a sniff. This is diabolical as I've always been in a high employment situation. I know there's a credit crunch and the media love gloating and scaremongering about the impending gloom. However I'm in a field that should flourish in a weakened economy.

However I've been out of work for a few months. So thoughts of moving back to UK have more than crossed our mind. Of course everyone there is saying "don't move back, don't move back" but I see this as a case of the grass is greener in reverse. Having researched it, there are plenty of opportunities every day for my skills so I don't anticipate having an issue getting back into work.

While I see more opportunities in UK than here for me, I'm not convinced my wife will actually be happy there either. She falls out with the neighbours and then finds reasons to want to go back. Or finds there's problems with schools here and decides we need to leave Canada.

I don't object to moving back but it will financially cripple us and I'm also concerned of the knock on effect on our relationship. Staying here out of work is also not an option, and I find this places really sucks in hard times, far more than Britain. I've never been homesick but with the bull-crap going on at the moment feel an desperate need to have friends and family around, even if they haven't proven to be so wonderful since we emigrated.

At the moment we're kind of in confused agreement that we're moving back. Of course I'm not sure whether we'll even be able to sell our house although we have a realtor who just wont' leave us alone. I'm really uneasy about doing so because even though I really want to get back into work and I'm not 100% happy in Canada, I am worried for the can of worms that might be opened in moving back.

The other point is that the PR has a 2 year residency requirement in any 5. My understanding is that if I got it January 1, 2008 then if by Janary 1, 2013 I have 2 years residency I can renew the PR card for another 5 years. For this we'd have to remain in Canada until about end of Feb 2010.

The other thing keeping me here is citizenship. As we have time in Canada, we can count some of it towards our citizenship requirement. We want this for our kids as much as anything. I calculated that we'd qualify with 1095 days (the qualifying requirement) some time early April 2010.

So if we left late summer we'd be within a few months of a chance to renew our PR for another 5 years when it expires, and about 8 months from being able to apply for citizenship. My intuition tells me we should stay come what may for this, but I'm not even sure I enjoy living here any more. Why stick my neck out to get something I might never use? Yes we could do it for the kids but perhaps they won't use it either.

Anyway sorry for the long text with a few hidden questions in there. This group is excellent for helping people clarify their confusion, even if the answer doesn't come from another member. I appreciate any thoughts and opinions on our situation, even though the decision will ultimately be a personal not a logical one.

JAJ

Seems to me you've kind of answered your own question ... you're not yet sure where you want to be (and times are likely to be hard in Britain too - are you sure you would be easily employable) so best option may be to wait to get your Canadian citizenship, late 2010 or so, and then re-assess.

g_is_for_canada

Hi,

I cannot be sure of anything which makes jumping into a colossal life changing decision very unnerving.

With employment while I don't believe anybody is in a recession proof employment, I believe the poor economy could stimulate my profession. When I emigrated I continued getting job posts from UK job sites which I just didn't read. In recent months I've started paying more attention. There are more opportunities, ad the pay seems quite a bit higher than I remember. This might be simply readjusting with US where people in my field earn their maximum.

The problem with camping out for the citizenship is that I cannot afford to remain unemployed until this time next year. In fact I have a few months left and don't like the prospect of going back to UK penniless. That would truly be a mistake. And in this economy I'm not going to write off the prospect of being on the unemployment scrap heap in my middle age for another 12 months, especially in Vancouver, the way things have gone recently.

I sincerely hope that anybody who is abandoning UK for Canada reads posts in this section, but why would they? Just glad that most who have returned seem they are happy with their decisions, despite tales of misery and gloom.

Mummy in the foothills

Wow tough situation.
If you really think your wife will not be happy even moving back, then maybe you should get her some counseling between now and when the house sells ready to move. If trying to wait for citizenship puts you in the poorhouse what would be the point in it, you'd never be able to afford to move anywhere.
What if a great job in Canada came along next week, how long are you willing to stay? Or would having a job mean you don't want to move. Or are you willing to move only cause the wife is unhappy (which as a wife myself is a valid reason on it's own to me )
So many questions.
Sometimes I think bad things happen (like loosing a job) and we want to run home where things are familiar and feel safer.I've been there done that and came back a year later.
This time I want to move (back to UK) and not move ever again. When we go home it'll be all together and final.
Make sure it's for all the right reasons and not rushed, so you don't regret it.

Bevm

Clearly if you want to stay in Canada long enough to get citizenship then you have to get a job. Are there other things you could do until something in your line turns up?

Is there a reason there are so many more openings in the UK than in Canada? I think if you really think you might want to go back, I'd fly over -- perhaps just you, to save money -- and get a real feel for whether the jobs are real and secure.

How old are your kids? Do they seem to care about being Canadian? If not, I wouldn't count that. They can apply to immigrate on their own later if they want to. After all, Canada isn't the promised land. You could as well say you want to give them US citizenship, or Australian, or anywhere else in the world. Giving them a happy family and home, and perhaps their loving relatives, might be more important.

As for your wife, has she ever been happy anywhere?

Comments, for what they're worth. Good luck with tough decisions.

Bev

ExKiwilass

Hi.

Tough sitch to be in. I agree Canada is not an easy place to be when things are tough. I also agree that it's hard to make friends or break in with the locals.

Here are my thoughts, for what it's worth:

-are you willing do work at whatever to keep body and soul together until c-ship comes through or is it more important to you to be in your career job?
-if you leave canada and can't come back, is that something you can live with? alternatively, can you live with not having any money when you go back?
-I can understand your concern about the kids. You're potentially closing a door of opportunity for them if you go back before c-ship. you never know (just to play devils' advocate) when and if canada will close the door on immigration. it's always good to have options about where to live. flipside is that your kids also have access to the whole EU.

Will you family, be a support to you, do you think if you return? Yeah I'm nosey. ANyway, I feel for you, I think Van is a beautiful but tough city to live in at times.

fionamw

a) Confused agreement - how well put; I should think soooo many of us will relate to that
b) That's the beauty, in my opinion.

That's all I can really contribute, but I'll keep watching & good luck...

g_is_for_canada

Actually that's a good point. Yes in the last place we lived in England but that was about it.

The work situation is the biggest problem of all though. I've run out of reasons to stay here, and my wife's attitude was, at first, let's at least get the citizenship. But she has a real problem with Canadians who tend to pussyfoot around with kids and really look on with horror when your kids are vocal and call the cops if you raise your voice to them. It's pretty damned pathetic and the source of all our issues with living here.

As a consequence she's now upgraded the urgency to more sell-up-and-move ASAP. Without work it's difficult to put up a practical defense to this. Whatever we do will be a nightmare. Crap neighbours are just making it more difficult.

I hear endless tales of misery in Britain but for anyone living there reading this, are you feeling this yourself or is it media hyped scaremongering? The media are truly the antichrist. For they claim they are just the messengers but they engineer emotion, and twist facts to make stories that promote themselves as individuals, and then have the audacity of claiming it's good journalism. There should be class lawsuit against these scum with the way they completely fabricate large webs of deceit by stitching together small truths.

Londonuck

I think when you're feeling lost you need something to work to and the thought of a move back kind of fills that void. When I left N Van I never thought I wouldnt want to return so badly, but i did. Mind you, I was there longer than you have so it probably got used to it a bit more. Also was lucky enough to be employed all the time i was there. I hope you find something soon mate.

ExKiwilass

Not from the UK, but I was there only a few months ago for the family wedding, and Ireland too. YEs, imo, the media is way more hysterical about the financial crisis than the media in canada. We were half expecting food riots when we got back to canada but it was the same old same old. But I dunno. Maybe things really are worse there. As a foreigner, it's really hard to tell, but no one in our families seemed particularly impacted...

Are the child-raising differences really that bad? Huh. Maybe it's diff on the north shore. Canadians don't seem to like spanking, but raising your voice - I"m screwed then

Elaine B.

I've been back here since July last year after just over 8 years in Canada and from my point of view the recession is just something I hear about on the news it doesn't affect my daily life. Life was more of a struggle in Canada especially from my OH's point of view as far as getting work. For us there was very little point to living in Canada we have a way better life here. Canada is a fine country but I'd rather be here, it's not perfect but it's home.

Gezza

Having myself moved out of Vancouver (after 3 years) back to England, then regretting it to finally return to US, I would advise you to search for opportunities in Seattle. Ring some agencies that recruit contractors for short term.
Not sure if anyone publishes such data but the rate of people like you who move back and then cry to come back to Vancouver after 12 months + is very high, I think.
I know the "cultural pinch" can be hard but it is well worth getting over!

In my field there are many agancies that are, in fact British owned. Vancouver job market is difficult, even in booming economy, From my experience you need to get to know people personally especially in professional fields. My advise is, get a job round Seattle, rent there during the week and drive home for weekends. Who knows your wife could function better with more independence, too. Having worked in both I honestly think that for a British mindset it is easier to fit in in a US firm. Here the rules are very strict but at least they are clear and you are kept busy! Also, the timing of your email rings a big bell with me. Even coming from England it is very hard to survive the winter in BC because of the shortage of daytime sunlight. More sensitive people really take it in the neck mentally! I remember Calgary was so much better.

Please do not rush to move back. Try and be flexible and look for work in other fields.

jandro

My sister's husband in London will be losing his job shortly and they will have to leave the UK. Their son says quite a few of his classmate's parents have lost their jobs in the City. My impression is that the recession has hit the UK harder than Canada and particularly BC but this will change in 2009 I think.

I don't think the Vancouver job market for many fields is that great even during boom times let alone during a recession. You might want to think about work elsewhere in North America as the above poster mentioned. I have another family member who moved to the US from Canada and found a much better position in her field although I think she has some gripes.

I was unemployed for a long time before I found something half-decent. For me the sticking point is the job situation. I don't hear many complaints from other relatives and people I used to work with in the UK. I also think about returning but am put off by the recession and other half says she will never go back. It's always a big financial hit everytime you move overseas.

I remember you posting your job loss a few years ago - sorry to hear of your present predicament.

Dorothy

I too found it hard to find friends in the GVRD. And I'm Canadian!! I have found in my experiences that the Vancouver region is very insular and hard to break into. Travel east a few hundred kms and you'll find a very different story.

Before you give up completely and move back to UK why not try some other areas of the country? Canada is huge with lots of diversity. With luck you'll find a place you can both be happy.

And just as an aside, this comment I've not been remotely impressed with Canadians is a bit of a generalisation, isn't it? There are after all 30 million of them.

g_is_for_canada

Wow you have a great memory about my job loss a few years ago. I took it really personally, and the way it was handled by my boss was criminal. I subsequently discovered the reason why (company was being downsized for sale which has now completed) and my boss and several other parts of the furniture there got busted too.

I know what you mean about the Vancouver job market. Just seems precious few companies in my field. I may just have to go it alone a bit to try to get some contract work. Agencies are useless because they all seem to focus on getting people full time work and we're back to square one, with the dampener of an agent commission.

I don't know how people tolerate the employment market in Vancouver. Almost no jobs are posted with salaries. You're not allowed to call them and they won't acknowledge they received your application, won't give you updates about important changes that directly impact candidates (e.g. the post has been withdrawn or on hold), and don't bother giving you a call to say you've been unsuccessful. This is simple ignorant rudeness and disrespect towards people which I would never subscribe to.

One thing I just don't understand about Vancouver is the networking thing. For a place that really doesn't have too many pub/bars, how exactly do people do it? In Britain networking is confined to specific career areas like recruiting IMO, but the pub is such a fantastic place to do it. Where in Van do people network if it's the done thing?