I know I seem new to this forum, but I've been reading for ages, so I know many of your stories and have followed with interest and empathy.

I hope you can give me some encouraging or helpful words, for me to then pass on to my husband 'cos I don't think he 'hears' me sometimes (and no, I'm not nagging, honest )

He's feeling mixed up, torn between two places and currently seems slightly embarrassed about 'facing' up to anyone (particularly in the working environment). He's dreading those "we always knew you'd go back", the "why would you want to go back" and the "what the hell are you doing back here?" comments. He's feeling low about letting me down that things have not worked out perfectly. I try to soothe his stressed brow.

To be honest, I am very sad that we might be heading back. But it all boils down to the fact that I love my husband and I hate to see him unhappy, unfulfilled and seriously feeling that he's cocked up his career. And it is the work side of things that is driving force behind making the decision to return. He simply cannot see himself working here for another 15 or 20 years. He is not particularly qualified to do anything else, and neither of us want to go to university to do something new (everyone here has a degree, seriously). He loved his old job - and I feel the guilt for being the driving force to come here. So I'm giving back and giving up. We've been here two years and far too often we have those 'have we done the right thing' conversations. I'm tired.

I've said we should now head home - and he's dithering!

We DO love many aspects about being here. We live in a lovely place and we have no mortgage (a big upside) but the constant undercurrant of not feeling settled wears very thin. The children are generally happy, but the older one still misses friends and relatives badly. Her recent birthday set her off again for a while. Friends for us adults have been very slow to make, and most are actually British. That doesn't bother me; they are great people, but we don't feel hugely integrated with many Canadian families. There are a few - maybe I'm greedy. People are friendly on the surface of things - chatting at pick-up time at kids clubs, playdates, colleagues at work - but it is not translating to adult time friendships, invitations out, etc, and yes, we have extended many invites to our house (can't always go out somewhere due to child-minding). Not many invites are returned - maybe we have bored them all to death No, that's not it, honest !

Cor - don't know what I'm asking really. I'm just rambling.

I guess I am honestly putting the option on the table for us all to return. Husband is wavering because he does see so many good things here for us. And I suppose I am secretly hoping he says 'nah, let's stay', and he probably knows that so doesn't want to disappoint me.

But you know what - I would not risk this relationship for anything, and if it means living in a tent in Timbuktu, I would do that. And I've told him that.

I think we both need to be brave, and bite the bullet. Whoever said this emigrating lark was easy, was lying, big time

Gosh what a difficult position to be in. In the current economic climate I would just urge a bit of caution. Can you or your hub be sure of getting work in the UK? Jobs are harder to get than 2 years ago. And being mortgage free is a real plus.

My own experience is that it takes at least 3 years to psychologically integrate into a new country. The first year is the honeymoon. The second year you start to notice everything that is wrong with your new home, the third year you start to see the good and the bad in a better perspective. Having said this, reading around here I see a lot of people don't necessarily match this pattern.

I'm not trying to put you off the UK, because I live here, and I am happy to do so. Do you need to make a decision now? The option will still be there for you in a year's time, and the housing/job markets may be a bit more predictable.

Whatever you decide, as a family you have had a great adventure, and even if you go back I'm sure you have learned a lot and gathered a whole new appreciation for your homeland!! No one can call that failure!

Yes, what's the situation about a job in the UK now. If he has a job in Canada and it's iffy no get one back in the UK, I think it'd be better to ride out the current turmoil here.

But it seems he's very unhappy about his job. Does he not have the one he wants? It's true that so many people go to university here. In most areas they're no better educated than someone leaving school in the UK, but they have that bit of paper and people are used to expecting a degree for almost anything.

As for Canada, we've been here 32 years, so we haven't disliked it, but we're looking to go back. In a way, we've never really put down roots -- could be because we've moved all over. Or we could have been rolling stones because we were looking for roots. Perhaps we'll find we're chronic tumbleweeds by now.

And I know what you mean about people being friendly but not friends. We do have some good friends here, but most of the best are from the UK. And I've noticed that about invitations. Canadians love to come to dinners and parties, but never seem to entertain themselves, so no return invitations, except possibly at Christmas, when there's too much going on!

Dinner parties are rare unless it's a pot luck with some other purpose for the gathering.

Someone else from Canada, do you find that? Or is it just me and snogood that no one wants to invite back?

Or, is it like this in the UK, too, now? We were young when we left and on visits home, we've not been entertaining.

Bev

Its not just you two. My invites are usually from other expats, the work colleague who usually needs something from me in return, or some good native friends I have made over the years. I have no interest in sitting in someone's garage and drinking crap beer, nor do I have any interest in hockey, the US, or the latest sub standard gadget they bought from China. That, to date, has been the sum total of conversation at other local gatherings, so I will admit to becoming anti-social after years of knock-backs.

Not in my experience it isn't Its still the same here , their are some exceptions but mostly the door is always open, everyone welcome... we dont need to wait for an invite I carn't speak for other places in the Uk.

But we found the Canadians just the same, they didn't really want to know beyond "hello how are you and have a nice day" Which i found so very false.....

I'm one of those people that will stick the kettle on for next doors cleaning lady And could never get my head round the fact that very few Canadians would even pass through your front door, never mind sit and have a coffee and a natter

I don't usually advise people NOT to move back to Britain, because generally in my opinion it's best that they do because at the end of the day I just believe home is where you were born, regardless.

However in your case I'm not so sure. It sounds like the only reason you would move back is because of your husbands job not being satisfactory.

I would have thought the obvious solution would be to persist for a little longer in trying to find a job that more closely resembles the one he liked in the UK. What sort of job was he doing in Britain and what job is he doing now in Canada?

I wouldn't say he failed at all. Let him he's already done more than the Daily Fail reading 'gone to the dogs' crowd back home who never had the guts to leave in the first place.

He's failing himself if he's more worried about what others will say rather than his (yours) own inner well being.

The job situation is a different matter though. But sometimes we are more confident dealing with 'our own' and can cope with things like looking for work with a different attitude.

Can he not go back for a few weeks and suss out the situation?

Thank you again for your thoughtful comments jmh. Jobs would not be an issue (though I don't care to expand on that at the moment). Maybe that is the real problem actually. The job is still sitting there, looking tempting!

Maybe it's just us Bev. So not entirely sure what I/we do wrong Maybe nothing.

He's doing the same kind of job - but it's hugely different! Again, I'm not being coy, and it sounds like I'm asking for help but not being helpful myself, but I can't really go into the actual job on here at the moment. Maybe at a later point.

I think the main issue is that he does not respect his employer as an organisation, and no matter how long he stays or 'settles in' with colleagues, there is nothing of interest here and no drive to progress further. There are no other employers in this area, and potentially it's the whole North American ethos that is different and not in line with his thinking. Neither is right or wrong, just different viewpoints. And with hindsight, something we should have maybe researched further.

Thanks Tr1boy. This is an option we discussed this week. I am thinking he might go and stay with his parents for a few weeks, catch up with his family properly and spend some time with his old colleagues to chew the fat. Maybe a light-bulb moment will appear?

Failed? You have to have the guts to try before failure is even an option, so in that respect he's more a winner than the millions who stay in the UK and moan how bad it is but never have the guts to try anything else, or those who stay trapped abroad despite not liking it after a couple of years.

You just have to do whats right for you as a family and screw what anyone else thinks or says on the subject. Develop a thick skin.

You've given it two years, it almost certainly not homesickness or culture shock by that point, and now you want to go back. End of story.


Anyone who gives you a hard time clearly doesnt relate, so there is no reason to care what they think as far as Im concerned. His Family are the only people he needs to answer too. Just tell people you hated the cold weather. It may not be true, but you cant argue against that and it ends the conversation.

Good Luck!

Thank you Iain. I know, I know, I know. We've done well to get this far, try it out and great chunks of it have been brilliant.

And yes, the "cold" comment could work. Whoever knew it was that chilly in Canada, eh?

A lot of one's self-worth can come thru a job, so if your hubbie is feeling miserable at work that will translate into all parts of his life.
Is there an option to change job? Are there specifics about the job whch he deslikes which could somehow be addressed? I'm sure you have been thru all that.
The kids being unsettled...I have to say mine were too for the first maybe 3 years. Now (after almost 5 years) they are actually fine. They don't miss family from birthday parties or Christmas or whatever, I suppose they have filed their world with other 'characters' It probably helps a bit that oth our families are small, so there's not so many bodies to miss so to speak.

Hubbie may be dithering because he suspects you like it in Canada? We were on this type of seesaw many times over the past 5 years. It's very hard to be out of sync.

I don't know what to advise you (heck I don't even know what to advise myself!) but I think I would give it a few more months and see how things are going workwise, is he any happier? I know a lot of people might say to stay where you are if you have a job, but if you are truly miserable (and I have been there) then you are better off out of that situation. Life is too short.....

Keep us posted,
Susie.

We have just come (well nearly) through our fourth winter and I think only now are we settled. One daughter is going back to the UK for 6 months in April and the other doesnt want to be anywhere else but here.

We had wobbles along the way and it seems to come and go. However we seem to me much more settled and happier now.

I hear you on the dinner party front, we have hosted several street events and only received one invite back. Our Bonfire Nigh party is a huge hit and people are not coy about asking to come Oh well it is something we will have to hope they get educated to do. All we have done is become the organizers and make them potluck forcing contributions by all.

Good luck in your decision and I will not offer advice either way, because I am way too bias

I really feel for you - it must be an awful situation to be in to know some of your family want to go back, some want to stay. It is hard enough adjusting to a new country without all that stress.

As an aside, maybe Canadians in the East are more friendly, we have been here seven months and every weekend is filled with going to people's houses, them coming to us, going to parties etc - all of them are Canadian except one other couple.

I think making good friends is hard, but if you can manage it, it makes a world of difference
Good luck with your decision!

We've had a million more discussions in the last week. I've maybe done my husband a disservice by using the word "failed" in the title of this thread.

Chi_town - your comment about one's own self-worth is valid. My husband took it one step further the other day, and said that nowadays, he no longer feels like he is doing a worthwhile job. He gets no satisfaction anymore that what he is doing is important or helping anyone at all. He is operating in a moral wasteland! And in his heart, he does not want continue here (as I mentioned before, it's just a different working ethos) - and that he is wasting his life. Don't get me wrong - he is not a "Work, work, work" type of person and he'd be happy to retire and walk away - but wants to hold his head up high and feel "yep, I did a good job".

A question we have asked ourselves over and over is "what else could he/we do" - but I do not think Canada has a strong enough pull anymore.

One other element that came out this week is that if, for example, I died tomorrow, he'd be on the first plane back as there is nothing holding him here. (If he died tomorrow, I'm not sure. I might stay ). Having said that, we both can't see us staying here forever and dying in this land. That is telling, isn't it?

And a potential nail in the coffin for me was a comment by him that if he drove off the road into a ditch, that it made things a whole lot easier, and his head wouldn't be in a permanent turmoil anymore. He was laughing as he said it, but the fact that it was a fleeting thought for him at all is so not funny. This is a calm, happy, optimistic fellow not prone to depressive thoughts or comments at all.

On the whole, I think we are moving forward to making that big brave decision and will look at heading back later this year. I have massively conflicting emotions on this. But we'll be together and support each other and life in the UK BC (before Canada ) was never bad anyway. I'm probably not quite ready to give it up just yet, but I think I would be in due course anyway, so what's the difference?

Headache!!!!!!!!

It does sound as if he's finished with Canada, Snogood, for whatever reasons, but I can certainly see that if the attitudes at work make him feel his efforts are not worthwhile that'd beat him down. I'm not sure why that would particularly be the case in Canada, but it's how it is for him.

I can't remember if you said what pulls you so strongly toward staying in Canada. What do you feel you'd lose by leaving? I can imagine some things, but I'm wondering what they are for you.

Bev