HMRC taxes
Jun 7th 2014, 6:29 pm
#16
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Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Beautiful Dorset, UK
Posts: 2,195
Re: HMRC taxes
The Personal Allowance is also eroded once earnings are over £100k pa - for every £2 over, the allowance is reduced by £1 until you get down to a nil allowance.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/personal-allow.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/personal-allow.htm
Jun 7th 2014, 7:52 pm
#17
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: HMRC taxes
The change in April 2010 affected non-residents only. From that date, citizenship of a Commonwealth country was not enough, in itself, for a non-resident to be entitled to a U.K. personal allowance.
Jun 8th 2014, 1:12 am
#18
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Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,168
Re: HMRC taxes
IF you are heading to the UK and are not taking up a lease on a property or moving into your own pad right away there can be issues relating to the effective date at which you become resident in the UK for tax purposes. Most likely, if not working right away, this is the date when you do in fact move into a place you can call home. What is more, this is the date when your overseas part ends and your UK part starts when you apply for split year treatment of your income and this can be a BIG ISSUE if you are trying to dispose of otherwise taxable assets BEFORE arrival.
I would hazard a guess that this is harder when you are not moving between the UK and a country with which the UK has a double taxation treaty or vice versa.
The question is WHAT TRIGGERS ARE THERE to cause you to become tax resident in terms of UK Ties - per the Statutory Residence Test (SRT) and the guidelines in:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/rdr3.pdf
are tough going, particularly family ties and how they work within your own family group.
I will be seeking advice in this area from a tax specialist who can do the form filling.
Just went back through the forms I recently completed regarding my residence status and I quite clearly and correctly showed my entitlement to a personal allowance - can't think what HMRC were thinking/doing
.
I would hazard a guess that this is harder when you are not moving between the UK and a country with which the UK has a double taxation treaty or vice versa.
The question is WHAT TRIGGERS ARE THERE to cause you to become tax resident in terms of UK Ties - per the Statutory Residence Test (SRT) and the guidelines in:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/rdr3.pdf
are tough going, particularly family ties and how they work within your own family group.
I will be seeking advice in this area from a tax specialist who can do the form filling.
Just went back through the forms I recently completed regarding my residence status and I quite clearly and correctly showed my entitlement to a personal allowance - can't think what HMRC were thinking/doing
.
I enjoyed reading your post - I could understand it too! 
Jun 8th 2014, 8:43 am
#19
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Scotland & Touraine [37]
Posts: 3,026
Re: HMRC taxes
IF you are heading to the UK and are not taking up a lease on a property or moving into your own pad right away there can be issues relating to the effective date at which you become resident in the UK for tax purposes. Most likely, if not working right away, this is the date when you do in fact move into a place you can call home. What is more, this is the date when your overseas part ends and your UK part starts when you apply for split year treatment of your income and this can be a BIG ISSUE if you are trying to dispose of otherwise taxable assets BEFORE arrival.
I would hazard a guess that this is harder when you are not moving between the UK and a country with which the UK has a double taxation treaty or vice versa.
The question is WHAT TRIGGERS ARE THERE to cause you to become tax resident in terms of UK Ties - per the Statutory Residence Test (SRT) and the guidelines in:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/rdr3.pdf
are tough going, particularly family ties and how they work within your own family group.
I will be seeking advice in this area from a tax specialist who can do the form filling.
Just went back through the forms I recently completed regarding my residence status and I quite clearly and correctly showed my entitlement to a personal allowance - can't think what HMRC were thinking/doing.
I would hazard a guess that this is harder when you are not moving between the UK and a country with which the UK has a double taxation treaty or vice versa.
The question is WHAT TRIGGERS ARE THERE to cause you to become tax resident in terms of UK Ties - per the Statutory Residence Test (SRT) and the guidelines in:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/rdr3.pdf
are tough going, particularly family ties and how they work within your own family group.
I will be seeking advice in this area from a tax specialist who can do the form filling.
Just went back through the forms I recently completed regarding my residence status and I quite clearly and correctly showed my entitlement to a personal allowance - can't think what HMRC were thinking/doing
.You can also register for benefits (and be rejected) or otherwise get recorded into the system e.g apply for a NI number; open a bank account; register with a doctor.
You are also tax resident from day 1 (not only after 6 months) when the intention is to remain.
The loss of personal allowance progressively from £100k is per person.
Jun 8th 2014, 10:14 am
#20
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Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Tunbridge Wells KENT
Posts: 2,914
Re: HMRC taxes
On the Irish forum they suggest buying a tv licence (even if you don't have a tv) just to prove residency.
You can also register for benefits (and be rejected) or otherwise get recorded into the system e.g apply for a NI number; open a bank account; register with a doctor.
You are also tax resident from day 1 (not only after 6 months) when the intention is to remain.
The loss of personal allowance progressively from £100k is per person.
You can also register for benefits (and be rejected) or otherwise get recorded into the system e.g apply for a NI number; open a bank account; register with a doctor.
You are also tax resident from day 1 (not only after 6 months) when the intention is to remain.
The loss of personal allowance progressively from £100k is per person.
Indeed you are tax resident from day one but will always try to apply split year treatment if that is tax expedient AND PERMISSIBLE, meaning that one's EFFECTIVE DATE can be different depending upon one's tie, residential and/or work circumstances.
*the date of 'arrival' is subject to tax interpretation - the date you are no longer overseas for tax purposes
Last edited by Pistolpete2; Jun 8th 2014 at 10:16 am.
Jun 8th 2014, 10:27 am
#21
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Scotland & Touraine [37]
Posts: 3,026
Re: HMRC taxes
Sorry to not be more specific. This is taxes we are talking about rather than residency for NHS or benefit purposes. The intent is to be NON (tax) resident as long as possible, in order to have time to get one's UK affairs, or overseas where being UK resident is tax detrimental, in order BEFORE arrival*.
Indeed you are tax resident from day one but will always try to apply split year treatment if that is tax expedient AND PERMISSIBLE, meaning that one's EFFECTIVE DATE can be different depending upon one's tie, residential and/or work circumstances.
*the date of 'arrival' is subject to tax interpretation - the date you are no longer overseas for tax purposes
Indeed you are tax resident from day one but will always try to apply split year treatment if that is tax expedient AND PERMISSIBLE, meaning that one's EFFECTIVE DATE can be different depending upon one's tie, residential and/or work circumstances.
*the date of 'arrival' is subject to tax interpretation - the date you are no longer overseas for tax purposes
Jun 8th 2014, 11:51 am
#22
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,294
Re: HMRC taxes
On the Irish forum they suggest buying a tv licence (even if you don't have a tv) just to prove residency.
You can also register for benefits (and be rejected) or otherwise get recorded into the system e.g apply for a NI number; open a bank account; register with a doctor.
You can also register for benefits (and be rejected) or otherwise get recorded into the system e.g apply for a NI number; open a bank account; register with a doctor.
If it was to claim benefits, I don't think the above would work under the new system and is a massive risk to take now. For the tv licence, you need to give an address and you only need one licence per house. Bank accounts: under the new Immigration Act (2014) will be open to closer checks.
There is a Brit on another forum who has just entered the country and has been refused JSA until he has resided in the UK for 3 months. He talked about going abroad for those 3 months as he had already registered as a UK resident, GP, council etc and a DWP person on th eforum told him to take advice from a CAB benefits advisor before he does that, as his 3 months to JSA would start again if he is not in the UK for those 3 months. There are new long benefit sanctions too, the minimum being 1 month, although during that sanction you can ask to be referred to a foodbank, you can't just turn up to a foodbank now without a referral. Crisis Loans have been replaced by foodbanks.
Even if he did manage to obtain benefits, it would still be benefit fraud and with the new much stricter rules, this could lead to all sorts of problems at a later date, such as not only having to pay the money back, but a fine from benefits and a criminal conviction for fraud too. They don't mess around now and government systems have been linked to help combat fraud and they are going back years. Once Universal Credit is across the whole country, it will be even easier to detect the fraudsters.
Benefit fraud isn't time barred either and it's not surprising with these new systems to see thread after thread now, of people being caught years later.
The goverment now have many ways to collect the money you should not have had from the welfare state i.e. alter your tax code, take from benefits, take from future benefits (state pension is a benefit), take from your bank account, bailiffs etc. There are much stricter times to repay all this money too and bigger penalties if you default on the repayment plan they set for you.
Benefit fraud - it's not if they catch you, it's when.
Last edited by formula; Jun 8th 2014 at 12:38 pm.
Jun 8th 2014, 12:53 pm
#23
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Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Tunbridge Wells KENT
Posts: 2,914
Re: HMRC taxes
That just goes to show how widespread benefit fraud is for the poor UK taxpayer and why all the changes were welcomed. You never were allowed to come to the UK for benefits and the new rules have now made that clear. It's just a shame that the EU are saying that returning Brits can't have help in their own country.
If it was to claim benefits, I don't think the above would work under the new system and is a massive risk to take now. For the tv licence, you need to give an address and you only need one licence per house. Bank accounts: under the new Immigration Act (2014) will be open to closer checks.
There is a Brit on another forum who has just entered the country and has been refused JSA until he has resided in the UK for 3 months. He talked about going abroad for those 3 months as he had already registered as a UK resident, GP, council etc and a DWP person on th eforum told him to take advice from a CAB benefits advisor before he does that, as his 3 months to JSA would start again if he is not in the UK for those 3 months. There are new long benefit sanctions too, the minimum being 1 month, although during that sanction you can ask to be referred to a foodbank, you can't just turn up to a foodbank now without a referral. Crisis Loans have been replaced by foodbanks.
Even if he did manage to obtain benefits, it would still be benefit fraud and with the new much stricter rules, this could lead to all sorts of problems at a later date, such as not only having to pay the money back, but a fine from benefits and a criminal conviction for fraud too. They don't mess around now and government systems have been linked to help combat fraud and they are going back years. Once Universal Credit is across the whole country, it will be even easier to detect the fraudsters.
Benefit fraud isn't time barred either and it's not surprising with these new systems to see thread after thread now, of people being caught years later.
The goverment now have many ways to collect the money you should not have had from the welfare state i.e. alter your tax code, take from benefits, take from future benefits (state pension is a benefit), take from your bank account, bailiffs etc. There are much stricter times to repay all this money too and bigger penalties if you default on the repayment plan they set for you.
Benefit fraud - it's not if they catch you, it's when.
If it was to claim benefits, I don't think the above would work under the new system and is a massive risk to take now. For the tv licence, you need to give an address and you only need one licence per house. Bank accounts: under the new Immigration Act (2014) will be open to closer checks.
There is a Brit on another forum who has just entered the country and has been refused JSA until he has resided in the UK for 3 months. He talked about going abroad for those 3 months as he had already registered as a UK resident, GP, council etc and a DWP person on th eforum told him to take advice from a CAB benefits advisor before he does that, as his 3 months to JSA would start again if he is not in the UK for those 3 months. There are new long benefit sanctions too, the minimum being 1 month, although during that sanction you can ask to be referred to a foodbank, you can't just turn up to a foodbank now without a referral. Crisis Loans have been replaced by foodbanks.
Even if he did manage to obtain benefits, it would still be benefit fraud and with the new much stricter rules, this could lead to all sorts of problems at a later date, such as not only having to pay the money back, but a fine from benefits and a criminal conviction for fraud too. They don't mess around now and government systems have been linked to help combat fraud and they are going back years. Once Universal Credit is across the whole country, it will be even easier to detect the fraudsters.
Benefit fraud isn't time barred either and it's not surprising with these new systems to see thread after thread now, of people being caught years later.
The goverment now have many ways to collect the money you should not have had from the welfare state i.e. alter your tax code, take from benefits, take from future benefits (state pension is a benefit), take from your bank account, bailiffs etc. There are much stricter times to repay all this money too and bigger penalties if you default on the repayment plan they set for you.
Benefit fraud - it's not if they catch you, it's when.
I have my hand on my heart on the off-chance that just somebody might already - I know we only have 14 months of this - have had first-hand experience ref the SRT and split-year treatment where a family is arriving to take up residence and do not initially/straight away move into a HOME.
No distractions please! - smile.
Last edited by Pistolpete2; Jun 8th 2014 at 1:02 pm. Reason: I have my hand on my heart on the off-chance....
Jun 10th 2014, 8:24 am
#24
Happy To Help!
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 165
Re: HMRC taxes
UK PERSONAL TAX ALLOWANCES
For the record, this may be helpful. RDR1 which came into effect from the 13/14 tax year states the following:
Allowances for non-UK residents
If you come to the UK, but do not become resident here, you may be able to get UK personal allowances as a non-resident if you are any of the following:
- a citizen of a state within the European Economic Area (EEA)
- a resident in the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands
- someone who was previously UK resident and is now resident abroad for their health or the health of a member of their family who lives with them
- a current or a former employee of the British Crown (for example a civil servant, a diplomat or a member of the armed forces)
- a civil servant in a territory under the protection of the British Crown
- a UK missionary society employee, or
- a widow, widower or the surviving civil partner of a former employee of the British Crown.
The previous guidance, HMRC6 applies for all tax years prior to the 13/14 tax year and states the following:
Allowances for non-UK residents
Even if you are not resident in the UK, you may be able to claim UK personal tax allowances if you are:
- a Commonwealth citizen *
- a citizen of a state within the European Economic Area (EEA) (this includes a British citizen), that is a citizen of a Member State of the European Union, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Norway
- a current or a former employee of the British Crown (including a civil servant, member of the armed forces and so on.)
- a UK missionary society employee
- a civil servant in a territory under the protection of the British Crown
- a resident of the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands
- a former resident of the UK who lives abroad for the sake of your own health or the health of a member of your family who lives with you
- a widow, widower or the surviving civil partner of an employee of the British Crown
- a National and/or resident of a country with which the UK has a Double Taxation Agreement which allows such a claim.
* This category applies only until 5 April 2010. From 6 April 2010, you do not qualify for UK personal tax allowances solely by virtue of being a Commonwealth citizen. But, you may still qualify for these allowances under other provisions or through a relevant double taxation treaty.
Allowances when coming to or leaving the UK
If you become or if you cease to be resident in the UK during a tax year, you will still be able to claim full allowances and reliefs in the year of your arrival or departure. This will be subject to any claim that you have made to the remittance basis of taxation.
For the record, this may be helpful. RDR1 which came into effect from the 13/14 tax year states the following:
Allowances for non-UK residents
If you come to the UK, but do not become resident here, you may be able to get UK personal allowances as a non-resident if you are any of the following:
- a citizen of a state within the European Economic Area (EEA)
- a resident in the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands
- someone who was previously UK resident and is now resident abroad for their health or the health of a member of their family who lives with them
- a current or a former employee of the British Crown (for example a civil servant, a diplomat or a member of the armed forces)
- a civil servant in a territory under the protection of the British Crown
- a UK missionary society employee, or
- a widow, widower or the surviving civil partner of a former employee of the British Crown.
The previous guidance, HMRC6 applies for all tax years prior to the 13/14 tax year and states the following:
Allowances for non-UK residents
Even if you are not resident in the UK, you may be able to claim UK personal tax allowances if you are:
- a Commonwealth citizen *
- a citizen of a state within the European Economic Area (EEA) (this includes a British citizen), that is a citizen of a Member State of the European Union, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Norway
- a current or a former employee of the British Crown (including a civil servant, member of the armed forces and so on.)
- a UK missionary society employee
- a civil servant in a territory under the protection of the British Crown
- a resident of the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands
- a former resident of the UK who lives abroad for the sake of your own health or the health of a member of your family who lives with you
- a widow, widower or the surviving civil partner of an employee of the British Crown
- a National and/or resident of a country with which the UK has a Double Taxation Agreement which allows such a claim.
* This category applies only until 5 April 2010. From 6 April 2010, you do not qualify for UK personal tax allowances solely by virtue of being a Commonwealth citizen. But, you may still qualify for these allowances under other provisions or through a relevant double taxation treaty.
Allowances when coming to or leaving the UK
If you become or if you cease to be resident in the UK during a tax year, you will still be able to claim full allowances and reliefs in the year of your arrival or departure. This will be subject to any claim that you have made to the remittance basis of taxation.
Jun 10th 2014, 9:17 am
#25
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Scotland & Touraine [37]
Posts: 3,026
Re: HMRC taxes
That just goes to show how widespread benefit fraud is for the poor UK taxpayer and why all the changes were welcomed. You never were allowed to come to the UK for benefits and the new rules have now made that clear. It's just a shame that the EU are saying that returning Brits can't have help in their own country.
If it was to claim benefits, I don't think the above would work under the new system and is a massive risk to take now. For the tv licence, you need to give an address and you only need one licence per house. Bank accounts: under the new Immigration Act (2014) will be open to closer checks.
There is a Brit on another forum who has just entered the country and has been refused JSA until he has resided in the UK for 3 months. He talked about going abroad for those 3 months as he had already registered as a UK resident, GP, council etc and a DWP person on th eforum told him to take advice from a CAB benefits advisor before he does that, as his 3 months to JSA would start again if he is not in the UK for those 3 months. There are new long benefit sanctions too, the minimum being 1 month, although during that sanction you can ask to be referred to a foodbank, you can't just turn up to a foodbank now without a referral. Crisis Loans have been replaced by foodbanks.
Even if he did manage to obtain benefits, it would still be benefit fraud and with the new much stricter rules, this could lead to all sorts of problems at a later date, such as not only having to pay the money back, but a fine from benefits and a criminal conviction for fraud too. They don't mess around now and government systems have been linked to help combat fraud and they are going back years. Once Universal Credit is across the whole country, it will be even easier to detect the fraudsters.
Benefit fraud isn't time barred either and it's not surprising with these new systems to see thread after thread now, of people being caught years later.
The goverment now have many ways to collect the money you should not have had from the welfare state i.e. alter your tax code, take from benefits, take from future benefits (state pension is a benefit), take from your bank account, bailiffs etc. There are much stricter times to repay all this money too and bigger penalties if you default on the repayment plan they set for you.
Benefit fraud - it's not if they catch you, it's when.
If it was to claim benefits, I don't think the above would work under the new system and is a massive risk to take now. For the tv licence, you need to give an address and you only need one licence per house. Bank accounts: under the new Immigration Act (2014) will be open to closer checks.
There is a Brit on another forum who has just entered the country and has been refused JSA until he has resided in the UK for 3 months. He talked about going abroad for those 3 months as he had already registered as a UK resident, GP, council etc and a DWP person on th eforum told him to take advice from a CAB benefits advisor before he does that, as his 3 months to JSA would start again if he is not in the UK for those 3 months. There are new long benefit sanctions too, the minimum being 1 month, although during that sanction you can ask to be referred to a foodbank, you can't just turn up to a foodbank now without a referral. Crisis Loans have been replaced by foodbanks.
Even if he did manage to obtain benefits, it would still be benefit fraud and with the new much stricter rules, this could lead to all sorts of problems at a later date, such as not only having to pay the money back, but a fine from benefits and a criminal conviction for fraud too. They don't mess around now and government systems have been linked to help combat fraud and they are going back years. Once Universal Credit is across the whole country, it will be even easier to detect the fraudsters.
Benefit fraud isn't time barred either and it's not surprising with these new systems to see thread after thread now, of people being caught years later.
The goverment now have many ways to collect the money you should not have had from the welfare state i.e. alter your tax code, take from benefits, take from future benefits (state pension is a benefit), take from your bank account, bailiffs etc. There are much stricter times to repay all this money too and bigger penalties if you default on the repayment plan they set for you.
Benefit fraud - it's not if they catch you, it's when.
Those examples I quoted were intended to start a paper trail to prove residency - NOT to access UK systems that you are not yet entitled to and certainly NOT to commit fraud.
I am a UK taxpayer.
Jun 10th 2014, 12:13 pm
#26
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,221
Re: HMRC taxes
- a current or a former employee of the British Crown (for example a civil servant, a diplomat or a member of the armed forces)
That section interests me! I wonder how far back one can go to qualify under that for the personal allowance. My husband was a civil servant both in his own country (a commonwealth country), in the UK in the sixties and in The Bahamas from 1983-1998.
That section interests me! I wonder how far back one can go to qualify under that for the personal allowance. My husband was a civil servant both in his own country (a commonwealth country), in the UK in the sixties and in The Bahamas from 1983-1998.
Jun 10th 2014, 12:22 pm
#27
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Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Tunbridge Wells KENT
Posts: 2,914
Re: HMRC taxes
.
Jun 10th 2014, 1:36 pm
#28
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,100
Re: HMRC taxes
IF you are heading to the UK and are not taking up a lease on a property or moving into your own pad right away there can be issues relating to the effective date at which you become resident in the UK for tax purposes. Most likely, if not working right away, this is the date when you do in fact move into a place you can call home. What is more, this is the date when your overseas part ends and your UK part starts when you apply for split year treatment of your income and this can be a BIG ISSUE if you are trying to dispose of otherwise taxable assets BEFORE arrival.
I would hazard a guess that this is harder when you are not moving between the UK and a country with which the UK has a double taxation treaty or vice versa.
The question is WHAT TRIGGERS ARE THERE to cause you to become tax resident in terms of UK Ties - per the Statutory Residence Test (SRT) and the guidelines in:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/rdr3.pdf
are tough going, particularly family ties and how they work within your own family group.
I will be seeking advice in this area from a tax specialist who can do the form filling.
Just went back through the forms I recently completed regarding my residence status and I quite clearly and correctly showed my entitlement to a personal allowance - can't think what HMRC were thinking/doing.
I would hazard a guess that this is harder when you are not moving between the UK and a country with which the UK has a double taxation treaty or vice versa.
The question is WHAT TRIGGERS ARE THERE to cause you to become tax resident in terms of UK Ties - per the Statutory Residence Test (SRT) and the guidelines in:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/rdr3.pdf
are tough going, particularly family ties and how they work within your own family group.
I will be seeking advice in this area from a tax specialist who can do the form filling.
Just went back through the forms I recently completed regarding my residence status and I quite clearly and correctly showed my entitlement to a personal allowance - can't think what HMRC were thinking/doing
.Surely, as soon as I begin work there, freelance or for an employer, I am resident in the UK - regardless of living arrangements?
Last edited by windsong; Jun 10th 2014 at 1:38 pm.
Jun 10th 2014, 1:41 pm
#29
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Tunbridge Wells KENT
Posts: 2,914
Re: HMRC taxes
This affects me because I will not be in my own place for about three months; however, I WILL be working within a month of arrival (just watch me!) I will also be working on getting freelance work from the first week I am there because eventually I will be self-employed.
Surely, as soon as I begin work there, freelance or for an employer, I am resident in the UK - regardless of living arrangements?
Surely, as soon as I begin work there, freelance or for an employer, I am resident in the UK - regardless of living arrangements?
In the HMRC explanatory document (guidance note) RDR3, there are some scenarios for returnees (and leavers) which cover those who move back and then look for accommodation prior to starting work, such as:
Olan on page 61
Same page covers starting work
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/rdr3.pdf
Last edited by Pistolpete2; Jun 10th 2014 at 1:51 pm. Reason: In the HMRC explanatory document RDR3
