Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Thought I would post on here as our situation is getting worse and need some advice from people who may have felt the same way. Did post a thread on the Canada forum just asking were we too long in the tooth to emigrate (both 46, kids 16 and 13) and too settled and part of the furniture back in the UK, most said it was normal homesickness and doubts kicking in and to stick with it.
We moved over to Canada in the summer so have been here 4 months. No doubt some will think classic homesickness time and culture shock kicking in. However I've lived with my kids wanting to go back home from 2 weeks of being here. My son who is 16 is definite he is not staying. My daughter age 13 has coped a little better but there is not a week that goes by without one of them having a meltdown.
My son is now a shadow of his former self and my daughter is just so sad. As you can probably imagine I am absolutely exhausted now and getting to the point of thinking this is just not worth it anymore.
I, deep down, don't think this will pass. We have not indulged in our misery, we are an active family who hike, bike, swim etc etc so have made the most of our weekends going to the lakeshore etc. But to see your kids just breakdown absolutely kills me.
Just wanted to ask is there anyone that has gone through this and worked through these extreme emotions and come out the other side or is it just prolonging the agony and we should just return to the UK.
We had more or less decided to give it a full 12 months (rental up in a year) but I seriously don't know whether the kids would last that long without ending up depressed.
Any advice, experience, please share as my mothering instinct is to protect and run like hell back to where we belong!
Cheers!

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Hi gillyd65

I am so sorry to hear things are not improving for your family.

There is no fixed timescale to know if the emigration was right for you or not. It very much comes down to your personal circumstances. It is easy for people to say you have to give it 12 months, but that is a very long time when you see your family disintegrating.

From what you say, you have all made a real effort by being active and getting involved in life. But sometimes that is not enough. Despite everything a place just does not ‘fit’. I have only been in Canada for 7 weeks, but like yourself, I know deep down that this is not the place for me. It is not a place where I see myself growing old (that is England).

Have you had discussions with the family? Your son seems to have made his position very clear. What about your daughter and husband? Perhaps its time to have that serious conversation, so that DH knows just how bad the situation is? He may be hoping it’s a passing phase and for some it is but not for others. Only time will tell.

Reading through posts on BE, I often see comments from people stating they wished they had returned earlier rather than sticking it out. I do not want to fall into that trap.

A factor to also consider is the children’s education, as no doubt this is being disrupted. A move back now may not be so bad.

At the end of the day, the decision will need to be made by your family. Forget the timeframe and just think about what will make you as a family happy. If that means going back, then so be it. Life is short, your children's happiness is precious, the rest is just stuff.

{{hugs}}

Optimistic

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

thanks optimistic. So sorry you are not feeling any better, but I'm beginning to think that once you feel that way then thats it. However much you try and plaster over the cracks it doesn't solve the problem. Feel a bit shell shocked to say the least as we first applied in 2001 and got caught up in a hike in points and were refused. Then reapplied in 2006 and were called for meds in 2009. I think we just thought that we had waited so long for it to happen then we had to go for it. But our lives had moved on, kids had grown, doing really well at school in a great school. Just thank our lucky stars that we waited for our eldest to complete his GCSEs before arriving here. At least he has something to build on. I sometimes wish a miracle would happen and the kids would somehow feel better being here 'cause I do think its a great country with lots to offer them.
Hope you manage to deal with your feelings, keep your chin up and pm if you need a chat.
Cheers

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Hi

I normally post in the Canada section as we are awaiting an LMO and will be moving over there hopefully at the beginning of 2012, but often lurk on this board and felt like I had to reply to your thread because I really feel for you.

My child is a lot younger than your's (he's only 6) but I have worried that he won't like it and will get homesick. We have as a couple wanted to make the move for years and have thought it is now or never as we thought moving him when he was older (like your two) would cause problems like you mentioned - I was just scared at teenager he wouldn't want to come with us - and like you - all you want is for your kids to be happy.

When you first applied it was 10 years ago... when your children (in my opinion) would have slotted in anywhere - and at the age where if mum and dad is happy = kids happy. As you say things have changed.

You don't say whether you have PR or not? Are you over there on temporary work permits? I wonder would it be worth sticking it out until you have PR so that you have flexibility to go back when your children get a bit older. Not sure at what point your children would fly the nest so to speak so maybe you could go back to Canada as a couple if that was what you wanted? I think there is a rule that to maintain PR you have to spend a certain amount of time in Canada to maintain it??? maybe worth looking into this.

At the end of the day you can't put a price on happiness and if Canada is not right for you all then it's not right. You are not failing by coming back to the UK. Not at all. You've tried something most people would be too scared to do!

What are the reasons your children are not happy? are they missing their friends? family? don't feel like they fit in?

I don't know what to advise apart from sitting down as a family and really talking it through and through until you reach a conclusion.

All the best :)

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

With PR you have to be in Canada for 3 years out of every 5 (or something like that).
To give complete flexibility, you have to get Canadian citizenship which you can't apply for until you have been in Canada for 3 years.

My advice...go home now if you really don't feel Canada is right for you.

I have been here 4 and a half years, homesick for 3 and a half. I am stuck here another 2 years until I an go home. My eldest is in high school and they finish at 18 here so I've had to wait.

There is no time line, just do what's beat for you and your family.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Hi GeordieLass
Yes we have PR and we have to do 2 years out of 5. Please don't let our troubles put you off. Your child is a perfect age to integrate and you will see him thrive and flourish, which certainly helps with your own homesickness, thats if it affects you. Thats the thing really, you cannot know how you are going to feel and whether homesickness is going to be a problem. Some get it some don't.
We landed as PRs in May 2010 so have lost a year whilst son was completing GCSEs and for the sale of our house to go through.
We have talked as a family, at great depth and thats why we know the kids are finding it so hard. The have managed to convey their feelings and why they feel the way they do.
Hubbys sister is arriving on Friday for a week so hopefully it will ease the emotions a bit, but not looking forward to her leaving!
Think its going to be a bumpy ride.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Lorry1 I really don't know how you have dealt with homesickness for 3.5 years. Has it just been you or other members of the family. I sometimes think that if it was just me, and the kids were OK, then I would probably deal with it better but seeing the kids this way just compounds your emotions.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I've just re-read my post and see loads of spelling mistakes :lol:

I don't know how I've coped to be honest, I just do a day at a time and now my hubby has said we can go back in 2 years, I have something to look forward to :)
It's just me that's been homesick. My eldest has suffered quite a lot too but she is at school and has loads of friends so gets on with life here. My youngest loves it here, although she does mention England a fair bit but she is 8 (4 when we left) so doesn't remember much.
Hubby loves it here and doesn't want to leave. He has (begrudgingly) agreed we can return in 2 years as he knows how depressed I've been but he's not happy about it, which makes me doubly sad.

It's definitely best to emigrate when the kids are young. My youngest has really settled well and knows no different. She is Canadian as far as she's concerned. Once they are older you get tied here with school, boyfriends/girlfriends, then before you know it you're a grandparent! :ohmy:

You may just be suffering culture shock and may settle and not want to leave. You may stick it out and get worse then regret not leaving earlier. Who knows?
Friends of mine have been here just over a year now. They were unhappy from within the first month. This never changed and they are returning to England in January. Their son is 4 so it's much easier for them to ping pong.

I think once homesickness kicks in, it's hard to pull out unless you can afford serious therapy to overcome it.

Good luck in whatever you decide. You are the only one (along with your family) that can make the decision that's right for you.:)

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Don't count on the little one not remembering much of life in UK.
My oldest moved to US with us at 4 and spent his whole live mentioning the UK, visited a few times, seemed happy here, and moved back after finishing Uni here.
My youngest is 6 and has vivid memories of being 2 and the few weeks she spent in the UK and Spain, can tell you who we saw, what we did and how much she liked it, she went again at 4 and remembers everything.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I agree.

My boys were just turned 7, and just 2 when we came to the US. ( been here 6+ years)

They both remember masses about their life in the UK!

My dd will be just turned 3 when we go home...I am wondering what she will remember about being American ~ she is the only one who has a totally American accent! :D

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I meant that she has found it easier to settle as she is younger. I think it is easier to adjust the younger you are.

She does remember certain things about living in England and remembers her 2 best friends fondly and sometimes says she misses them.

We went back to England for 3 weeks in August and she totally loved it. She was so impressed with the parks :lol:
When we came back here she boasted to all her friends how great the parks were in England.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I think most of us have had the do we don't we scenario kind of feeling, others just up sticks and go (either way) without a worry etc and some love their new lives but the majority of their family don't...migrating really should have a health warning lol....what you have to do is sit down and have a good family chat about how you all really feel...finger nails get pulled when I sit my family down (I am the only female...lol..) and sometimes I dread it when I already kind of know how the others are feeling and it might not be the same way I feel but at least you know where you stand. For me and not everyone is made the same way but if our two have something bothering them then I try and do anything I can to help, advice a shoulder etc, they have to make their own way in life but if we can help it a bit easier then thats what we do. So have a good chat, way up the pros and cons and take it from there. My Dad once said "you never stop worrying about your children" and he was soooo not kidding and touch wood we have two lovely sons!!!!!!!! good luck, take care and it might help you a little to know your not alone in what your going through now.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Hey Gilly,

People sweep under the rug what a major move it is, most particularly with children.

Canadians speak the same language, for sure :lol: but what I find difficult about this country is that it is still trying to find it's identity, I guess like Australia is. I don't think it is about fitting in here as everyone is an immigrant. I think it's more about the type of life you can have here works for you or it doesn't.

I have posted many threads about life here in Calgary, and that hubby and I feel cut off from the rest of the world and bored - there I have said it! We definitely don't feel that it is a "fit", and despite the protests or suggestions I have received from other people on this forum, nothing has changed the way
we feel.

As it is we return to the UK when our rental lease finishes in the summer.

We don't hate Canada, but it has been a long, hard slog and that slog has not let up since we got here. We have been working crazy hours, and when I mentioned to the Program Manager that I was not happy about working 12hr
days, I got fired a couple of weeks after. I am now looking for work once again. I am damn good at what I do, but have had enough of the constant stress we have been living with.

We have had little time to ourselves, feel tired and stressed almost all the time, and find Calgary provides little relief for us.


Time to go home.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Just wondering... why did you go to Canada in the first place?

Was it for an adventure or did you really think you would have a better life?

Do you have a better life?

How did your kids feel about moving to Canada before you left the UK?

Where is home?

Personally, I would live where I called home.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I think if a 16 year old and a 13 year old did not really want to go in the first place...why would you go? It's a whole different ball game than a 6 and 3 year old. Take a family vote. If you haven't sold up in UK yet, that makes it much easier to undo.
For last 8 years I have been a temporary transient expat because of OH's job and with kids at 12 and 10, I now want to get them back to the UK or at least a lot nearer to put down some permanent roots. We all need roots.

Yours already had their roots in place and those should ideally only be uprooted if they agree. The reason I want to go back is because my roots are there and my consent was only for temporary moves.
You don't help your kids by forcing them to move to a different country past a certain age, you just risk splitting the family because as your son has said, he aims to go back when he can. Trouble is the rest of you won't be there in UK for him unless you also return. At 16/7/8 he still needs you in his life on a day to day basis.
So yeah, I think 16 and 13 is too old to emigrate if the person doesn't really want to go.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

[QUOTE=brissybee;9763714]Just wondering... why did you go to Canada in the first place?

Was it for an adventure or did you really think you would have a better life?
We first applied in 2001 and got knocked back (hike in points) so reapplied in 2006. Meds request came through in late 2009. It was a case of well we've waited so long to get in, the PR cards arrived after landing in 2010 and thought we would go for it.

Do you have a better life?
At the moment no.

How did your kids feel about moving to Canada before you left the UK?
Wary, sad to leave friends and family but were willing to give it a try.

Where is home?
At the moment, Bradshaw, Bolton, Lancashire.

Personally, I would live where I called home.
Thanks for your suggestion.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Hi again

I feel for you I really do because it seems like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

You know a great bit of advice I was given by a friend years ago when I was in a really difficult situation and didn't know which way to go because neither option was a good option but the only options I had at the time was "Which is the least worst?" and I always use that philosophy when faced with a situation where I don't like either outcome but have to choose one...

Which is the least worst in your situation do you think? :huh:

Hang on in there :)

xx

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

They were both willing to give it a try, we did not force them. We are a close family unit and can discuss feelings quite openly. Sure we were all wary and scared before we came, but both OH and I made sure everything was set up in Canada before we arrived, house, jobs, schools etc to make the transition as easy as possible but we didn't anticipate the sheer depth of emotion that would surface so early on.
Thanks for your comments luvwellly, I suppose when you already have roots you don't know how deep they run until you leave them behind.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

thanks again GeordieLass
Good advice we'll think about that one. We have OHs sister arriving on Friday for a week so no doubt she will pass on some words of wisdom and encouragement. Its difficult when its just the four of you all the time to try and see the wood for the trees, we're all quite emotional at the moment so it might help by having an outsider with us who is not quite as emotionally involved.
Cheers

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Hi Brits1
Have you emigrated and returned to the UK or are you thinking of emigrating. Couldn't quite work out which side of the fence you were on.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Hi Ally
Didn't realise you had asked to work normal hours!!! before they fired you. See if you can negotiate a bit more for what you want next time, don't let them grind you down. Do as the bankers have done in the UK, screw them for every last penny then do a runner!
I think you have hit the nail on the head with your observations on the new country/no identity/fitting in scenario. Most people that my OH has spoken to whilst out working are mainly the Brits and Europeans who have lived here for a while (the 2nd + generation Canadians don't on the whole pass the time of day with him) say its not home and they haven't really fit in but stay because their kids are 'Canadians' either born here or came whilst very young. Obviously this doesn't apply to absolutely everyone but he says it is a good majority that feel this way.
My daughter compared how she felt with how a polar bear would feel if it moved to the desert. She said 'Polar bears live in the Arctic because the resources they need to live and sustain their life are there, if they were moved elsewhere like the desert then it would take many years of evolution before they could adapt to their new habitat and use the resources available there to sustain life. Our resources (family, grandma, friends) aren't here and thats why we are finding it hard to survive' She said if she stayed here then it would be her kids that would feel totally settled and adapted to the new habitat, not her.
Clever girl hey!!

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

You are more than welcome hun. That's why it's good to post on here and get other people's opinions I guess.

Hopefully like you say having her there will calm the situation down a bit and help you all see through the fog.

I see where you are coming from - much as I want to move to Canada the thought of leaving my friends and family makes me well up just thinking about it - am just hoping our love of Canada gets us through that - and if it doesn't - we come back. Simples... :) I certainly won't feel like a failure if we ended up wanting to come back to the UK. At least I can say I had an adventure and tried something most people would be too scared to do! :thumbsup:

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

We don't feel like failures and it is viewed as an experience!! Like I said on my original thread, we do make the most of what is on offer, thats one of the reasons why we love Canada so much, we're real outdoor people. Yes we still love Canada but perhaps now not to live, sadly. But we've tried it, been there got the t-shirt so to speak!

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

That's the spirit - same philosophy that we have - it's an experience! :thumbsup:

Maybe Canada is a place for you that will be great to return to on holidays but just not where you heart is?

Whatever you decide - I wish you the best! :thumbsup::starsmile:

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I do wish you all the luck in the world in your potential move and once again don't let what we're going through put you off - it could have been the complete opposite outcome for us, only by doing it do we have the answer. No what ifs anymore.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Thanks... and don't worry - hasn't put me off in the slightest. Like I say I am going with an open mind anyway. I love Canada with a passion but loving somewhere you have been on holiday is not the same as living there. The only problem I can see us hitting is if one of us loves it and one wants to come back to the UK. Bridge I will cross if and when we come to it.

Good luck in whatever you decide - keep us posted! xx

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Yes a very clever daughter! I also agree with brits1 that emigration should carry a health warning (financial costs, split families, divorce etc ).
Being temporarily expatriated is not so bad (as you don't burn all your boats and can just see it as an adventure) but often not chosen, it just falls in your lap...'we'd like you to go and work here for x years etc'.
One day you think hang on a minute how are these kids going to feel they belong anywhere properly if we don't get back soon?

I think the roots run especially deep if you never particularly had much of a downer on your home country in the first place. 'Daily Mail reading', 'grass is always greener types' maybe find it easier to assimilate in the new location...at least at first.
Have you not had any 'honeymoon period' yet?. Do things not seem new fresh and interesting? The more common pattern seems to be to think everything is great for 2 years and then for doubts to set in. If you have all been lukewarm from day one, maybe it's just not for you.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Sorry....We moved to Aus 12 years ago and returned to the UK last year, we had a good life in lots of ways in Aus but it was never home and that feeling would not go away no matter what so after a lot of should we,could we etc we finally made the decision. Sometimes I am pleased we went to Aus but in others I just wished we had stayed in the UK and have been happy with what we had ...lol...thats another Migrant warning...lol. I would say if your going to return do it sooner rather than later for your sake and the childrens. Good luck and enjoy your time with your S.I.L, dont think about goodbyes until your actually saying them.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I think thats the thing Brits1 we haven't had the honeymoon period, apart from the first two weeks, after that our daughter went first, then my son. Its gone down the pan ever since. I just kept thinking 'Perhaps it can only get better?' But who am I kidding? If we go back within 12 months then we can sort of pick up with our business in the UK and the kids can resume schools, 6th form college etc our connections are still there. Any longer sticking it out would make it very hard to return.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Sorry meant to say LuvWelly!!

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

FYI, if you catch a mistake soon enough, you have about a one-hour (?) window to edit a post - look for the Edit button at the bottom right corner of your post ...

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Hi Brits 1 - We had a good life in the UK and have never been negative about it, the kids were doing well so what the hell were we thinking??? However we were all willing to give it a go, keep an open mind which is some ways we are still trying to do despite whats happening in the hope that something will click but much as it pains me to say we now realise just what the UK means to us. I think that should we stick it out for say 2 years plus, then it would be extremely difficult to return due to timings with education for the kids, picking up business contact again etc etc. A song is coming to mind 'Its now or never.........'

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

:)

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Gilly65, in the [Calgary] O&G industry, you don't always get the chance to negotiate.

In this case there was also a personality clash (me thinks) with said Program Mgr. I had come up with some ways that they could improve their processes, all of which were taken on board and used. I received much praise and admiration from co-workers about it, and at the time the Pgm Mgr. None of them had the balls to say anything during the workshop.

The next thing I know, having said that I prefer to get my work done in 8hrs, and be more productive at it, as opposed to the 12 hr/7 day a week regime we were subjected to (N.B Proj Mgmt had under estimated their resource requirements and admitted to this), little did I know that I would be fired a couple of weeks after for having made that comment - I think this was the reason. They wanted 'yes' people/door mats who would just get on and shut up.

As it was, the Pgm Mgr was schizo, you never knew what direction she would come from next ..... nice one minute, down right crappy the next.

A lot of contractors at various O&G companies I have worked at in Calgary say it isn't even about how good you are at your job, if a Manager decides they don't like you, thats it, you're out the door. Its that fickle here.

I have heard some grusome stories from people, and I mean shocking about the Calgary O&G underworld.

For example, one ex co-worker was let go by the company she was working at. She had just taken out a mortgage which the company supported and encouraged, before she got let go, and they lost everything - BTW, she and her husband have 5 children.

Next thing, her previous Mgr at the same company offers her position back if she'll sleep with him - TRUE STORY.

P.S They actually tried to screw me over financially but I got every penny back that I had earned. It took a week of hard negotiations to get that money back. They (the Client) wanted to see my overtime hours which I duly sent, they then proceeded to question everything on my invoices and timesheets.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Pretty ruthless job market over here don't you think. OH has been speaking to some who say 'its not what but who you know, and they want yes people'. On one of your other posts I saw the discussion about the lack of thinking outside of the box, perhaps thats the reason why, they need yes people. My eldest has commented on the way things are taught here, in the UK it was all about critical thinking skills and thats why he is finding it frustrating here as he always wants to speak up and put forward another 'view' on things.
It all seems quite controlled.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Ruthless job market? - YES, VERY.

And you have to watch your back, and don't assume that because people smile at you, they like you.

Oil companies don't give a S*** about you, and fellow contractors/co-workers (as I have experienced) are all too happy to throw you under the bus when up against it.

3 or 4 times now I have experienced people (in my own team) putting blame on to me and cc'ing everyone in their email.

I am NOT trying to make myself out to be the victim here, just that there are people who have been around a while in this town who will do just about anything to make someone else look like the incompetent one when actually it is THEY who are incompetent.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the allegations of bullying by a few of the Project Team members concerning a female Project Manager.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I'm glad I saw this thread as it's doing me no end of good reminding me of all the reasons I left Canada (6 months ago). Takes me back to my own situation a couple of years ago endlessly going back and forward about whether or not to go back to the UK now or stick it out a bit longer.

I'm afraid Geordie lass that returning is not always so simples either, I said almost exactly that when we left little realising that the UK I was leaving would not be the same one I returned to (ie the recession etc)

In the end we bit the bullet and came back and while hand on heart I can say that there's nothing in Canada that I really miss other than some of my old work colleagues I'm not sure we did the right thing in coming back right now as we have really struggled to find work and when I think about all the money we have spent doing this it brings me out in a cold sweat:eek:

OH says that we would have always wondered and that we needed to do it to get it out of our system and he may well be right. Maybe one day I'll look back on this as a big adventure when I've gained some perspective.

Sorry not to be more helpful OP got a bit caught up in my own woes there :o

Maybe your kids will feel better if they have a time line to going home and you can look on the next few months as a way to make the most of the time you have left there and try and fit as many trips etc as you can. We had some fab trips to the states during our last year which we wouldn't have otherwise made and had some really good memories/photos to take back with us. Good luck in whatever you decide,

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Well, that particular company I got let go from insisted that all new starters do their 'Integrity Training' course. In other words it was compulsory.

However no integrity was demonstrated by those in positions of power.

Once again, the injustice.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

Thanks Bettyboo. As we haven't been away from the UK for long we know exactly how the land lies there. We'll set up the business again, OH has already been speaking to contacts. Yes we have 'lost' out financially but as your OH said it was something we felt we had to do and give it a go. As I have said before I think you have to shut off from UK friends and family to a certain extent which we can't do.

Re: Help needed - when do you say enough is enough?
 

I didn't mean it was simple as in easy. I meant once a decision is made it's then just finding a way to reach the solution you want. I know emigrating and deciding to come back is a very difficult decision. :)

OP- Have you decided what to do yet? did your SIL coming over help at all? Hope you are all ok. :)