Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Dec 21st 2009, 1:12 pm
#1
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: WA but not forever!!!
Posts: 943
Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Hi all,
I'm just wondering if you knowledgeable folks could help me work something through.
Hubby and I are British Born Australian Citizens with 3 children. 2 not in school yet.
Hubby was working on a half decent wage and I was a part time worker until I stopped at 33 weeks pregnant. Hubby then got injured and has just had surgery and will not be able to return to his previous job for a while and once recovered will have to finish qualifications in a different field and take a pay cut (most likely).
We sold our house and one of our cars knowing that things would be tight. It's hard for me to get back to work because hubby isn't fit enough to look after the kids in the evening and weekends when I am required to work.
I've spoken to Centrelink today to basically update our circumstances because we've socked up the financial storm from hubbies injury for 6 months and now they seem to suggest that we are now classed as low income earners and entitled to parenting payments/pension, increase in family tax and rent assistance. Two days ago I was ready to book my flights to return to the UK but hearing that we might get some financial support I was thinking of waiting until hubby was fit enough to work/study before returning. He has a university place booked for September in the UK and the option to start studying here in Feb.
Is it me or are we being looked after better over here? Because we have some equity in the bank I was thinking that we wouldn't get anything because that's normally what we get told in the UK so I never bothered to enquire just thought we had a lot of bad luck for 2009 (3 surgeries between hubby and I)! If anyone could share some light on what sort of help we might get back in the UK or any pitfalls it would be much appreciated.
Poppet
p.s what are the payments you get in the UK generally for having a family?
I'm just wondering if you knowledgeable folks could help me work something through.
Hubby and I are British Born Australian Citizens with 3 children. 2 not in school yet.
Hubby was working on a half decent wage and I was a part time worker until I stopped at 33 weeks pregnant. Hubby then got injured and has just had surgery and will not be able to return to his previous job for a while and once recovered will have to finish qualifications in a different field and take a pay cut (most likely).
We sold our house and one of our cars knowing that things would be tight. It's hard for me to get back to work because hubby isn't fit enough to look after the kids in the evening and weekends when I am required to work.
I've spoken to Centrelink today to basically update our circumstances because we've socked up the financial storm from hubbies injury for 6 months and now they seem to suggest that we are now classed as low income earners and entitled to parenting payments/pension, increase in family tax and rent assistance. Two days ago I was ready to book my flights to return to the UK but hearing that we might get some financial support I was thinking of waiting until hubby was fit enough to work/study before returning. He has a university place booked for September in the UK and the option to start studying here in Feb.
Is it me or are we being looked after better over here? Because we have some equity in the bank I was thinking that we wouldn't get anything because that's normally what we get told in the UK so I never bothered to enquire just thought we had a lot of bad luck for 2009 (3 surgeries between hubby and I)! If anyone could share some light on what sort of help we might get back in the UK or any pitfalls it would be much appreciated.
Poppet
p.s what are the payments you get in the UK generally for having a family?
Dec 22nd 2009, 1:52 am
#2
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,985
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Benefit Rates UK
Couple 100.95
3 kids 168.33 (56.11 each)
So the minimum income you would have to live on is £269.28. Weekly.
There's an allowance for Rent to go on top of that.
You can have up to £16000 'capital' and still be entitled although an income is assumed so you'd get less.
Whatever income you have - part time wage, child benefit etc would be topped up to that £269.
The actual benefit you claim will depend on whether you are available for work, unable to work and which of you claims.
There are other factors but those are the basics.
Jobcentre website
Couple 100.95
3 kids 168.33 (56.11 each)
So the minimum income you would have to live on is £269.28. Weekly.
There's an allowance for Rent to go on top of that.
You can have up to £16000 'capital' and still be entitled although an income is assumed so you'd get less.
Whatever income you have - part time wage, child benefit etc would be topped up to that £269.
The actual benefit you claim will depend on whether you are available for work, unable to work and which of you claims.
There are other factors but those are the basics.
Jobcentre website
Dec 22nd 2009, 6:13 am
#3
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Hi all,
Two days ago I was ready to book my flights to return to the UK but hearing that we might get some financial support I was thinking of waiting until hubby was fit enough to work/study before returning. He has a university place booked for September in the UK and the option to start studying here in Feb.
If anyone could share some light on what sort of help we might get back in the UK or any pitfalls it would be much appreciated.
Poppet
p.s what are the payments you get in the UK generally for having a family?
Two days ago I was ready to book my flights to return to the UK but hearing that we might get some financial support I was thinking of waiting until hubby was fit enough to work/study before returning. He has a university place booked for September in the UK and the option to start studying here in Feb.
If anyone could share some light on what sort of help we might get back in the UK or any pitfalls it would be much appreciated.
Poppet
p.s what are the payments you get in the UK generally for having a family?
2: If you have been outside of UK for a number of years then you would need to satisfy habitual residency test before being eligible for JSA, Income support or Housing benefit (most likely satisfied once you have been in UK for between 1 and 3 months).
3: If you have been outside UK for number of years your hubby WOULD NOT qualify for home/domestic rate of student tuition fees at uni. Need to be in continued residency in UK for 3 yrs before being eligible for this lower rate.
Dec 22nd 2009, 6:52 pm
#4
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,985
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Useful additions to my points.
Note, however, that there is no set time limit involved in being habitually resident.
Other threads have shown that people are sometimes told there is virtually a qualifying period but there is not.
If one can show that logical steps to resettle in the UK have been taken in advance of arrival such as arranging somewhere to live, opening a bank account, applying for work - including having child care arrangements in place if appropriate - having your belongings moved to the UK etc etc then things will go much easier. Especially if you don't "go down the social" the day you arrive.
Note, however, that there is no set time limit involved in being habitually resident.
Other threads have shown that people are sometimes told there is virtually a qualifying period but there is not.
If one can show that logical steps to resettle in the UK have been taken in advance of arrival such as arranging somewhere to live, opening a bank account, applying for work - including having child care arrangements in place if appropriate - having your belongings moved to the UK etc etc then things will go much easier. Especially if you don't "go down the social" the day you arrive.
Dec 22nd 2009, 7:31 pm
#5
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 711
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Benefit Rates UK
Couple 100.95
3 kids 168.33 (56.11 each)
So the minimum income you would have to live on is £269.28. Weekly.
There's an allowance for Rent to go on top of that.
You can have up to £16000 'capital' and still be entitled although an income is assumed so you'd get less.
Whatever income you have - part time wage, child benefit etc would be topped up to that £269.
The actual benefit you claim will depend on whether you are available for work, unable to work and which of you claims.
There are other factors but those are the basics.
Jobcentre website
Couple 100.95
3 kids 168.33 (56.11 each)
So the minimum income you would have to live on is £269.28. Weekly.
There's an allowance for Rent to go on top of that.
You can have up to £16000 'capital' and still be entitled although an income is assumed so you'd get less.
Whatever income you have - part time wage, child benefit etc would be topped up to that £269.
The actual benefit you claim will depend on whether you are available for work, unable to work and which of you claims.
There are other factors but those are the basics.
Jobcentre website
I am a single parent and have 2 children and was unemployed for 3 months and only received JSA which was 64 GBP weekly. The only other benefits that you get are child benefit and child tax credit which do not amount to this figure. Just because you are unemployed does not mean you get additional "income" benefits for your children. Also anything over 8,000 in savings means that for each 250 GBP over this amount your benefits are reduced and that goes for housing benefit as well.
As another poster has said if you relocate now you could find yourself going from the frying pan into the fire as you have been outside of the EU and therefore would need to satisfy the habitual residency test which could take several weeks. Although there has been much documented on this site re the HRT and that in principal you should be classed as resident the day you land the DWP makes it's own decision and you may be stuck for several weeks with no help at all.
Dec 22nd 2009, 10:12 pm
#6
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,985
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
The key is in the part where I said So the minimum income you would have to live on is £269.28.
Note that I didn't say the benefit actually paid is 100.95 plus 3 lots of 56.11 making 269.28, I said the minimum income to live on would be 269.28.
As in Whatever income you have - part time wage, child benefit etc would be topped up to that £269.
Those are the JSA Income Based levels.
Income Based JSA for a lone parent and 2 kids is 64.30 plus two lots of 56.11....= £176.52. Providing one applies for Income Based JSA and there is no capital to make a difference, that's the level that other income would be topped up to.
I was trying to avoid too much detail and just gave a general idea.
While the assumed income from savings may reduce the Income Based JSA (or Income Support) and Housing Benefit, if the Income Based JSA/Income Support is payable then it doesn't reduce Housing Benefit which is due at the maximum rates when there is some entitlement to the JSA(IB)/Income Support.
This is what I mean about getting bogged down in detail.
As another poster has said if you relocate now you could find yourself going from the frying pan into the fire as you have been outside of the EU and therefore would need to satisfy the habitual residency test which could take several weeks. Although there has been much documented on this site re the HRT and that in principal you should be classed as resident the day you land the DWP makes it's own decision and you may be stuck for several weeks with no help at all.
I'm very aware of people getting caught up in delays...they tend to be those surprised by the rule. The most recent thread about it involved someone turning up at the office almost the first day.
But she still succeeded as she was prepared to get some background information together and make her case rather than do as some folk do and just say "But I'm British."
No dig at anyone intended.
I came to Canada after doing over 30 years for DHSS/DSS/DWP, including several years making decisions on HRT.
Last edited by BristolUK; Dec 22nd 2009 at 11:21 pm.
Dec 23rd 2009, 5:08 am
#7
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Appropriate period of time
071346 The appropriate period of time need not be lengthy if the facts indicate that a
person’s residence has become habitual in nature at an early stage1. In some
circumstances the period can be as little as a month, but it must be a period which is
more than momentary in a claimant’s life history2. A period of between one and
three months is likely to be appropriate to demonstrate that a person’s residence is
habitual in nature. Cogent reasons should be given where a period longer than three
months is considered necessary3.
1 House of Lords, Nessa v CAO (1999) 1 WLR 1937 HL; 2 CIS/4389/99; 3 CIS/4474/03
Dec 23rd 2009, 6:45 pm
#8
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,985
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Regarding this matter,I refer you to an excerpt from a document I recently came into posession of, and quote from it:
Appropriate period of time
071346 The appropriate period of time need not be lengthy if the facts indicate that a
person’s residence has become habitual in nature at an early stage1. In some
circumstances the period can be as little as a month, but it must be a period which is
more than momentary in a claimant’s life history2. A period of between one and
three months is likely to be appropriate to demonstrate that a person’s residence is
habitual in nature. Cogent reasons should be given where a period longer than three
months is considered necessary3.
1 House of Lords, Nessa v CAO (1999) 1 WLR 1937 HL; 2 CIS/4389/99; 3 CIS/4474/03
Appropriate period of time
071346 The appropriate period of time need not be lengthy if the facts indicate that a
person’s residence has become habitual in nature at an early stage1. In some
circumstances the period can be as little as a month, but it must be a period which is
more than momentary in a claimant’s life history2. A period of between one and
three months is likely to be appropriate to demonstrate that a person’s residence is
habitual in nature. Cogent reasons should be given where a period longer than three
months is considered necessary3.
1 House of Lords, Nessa v CAO (1999) 1 WLR 1937 HL; 2 CIS/4389/99; 3 CIS/4474/03
But note the use of words and expressions open to interpretation in the above.
If one has planned a return by, for example, selling a home or ending a lease, resigning/retiring, arranging a new home, perhaps a new job, registering children in school, having all your belongings moved to your new home etc is hardly a "moment" in life.
It needs to be remembered that the HRT was brought in to discourage Benefit Tourism; claims from people simply visiting. If things look genuine and reasonable, then officials will not usually fail applicants.
But even if this reproduced ruling was the one applied at the exclusion of all the others, "A period of between one and three months is likely to be appropriate to demonstrate that a person’s residence is habitual in nature. Cogent reasons should be given where a period longer than three months is considered necessary" would indicate one to three months was fine while outside of that may still be considered reasonable depending on the circumstances.
An obvious one for longer than three months would be where other members of the benefit applicant's family had yet to join them and had no immediate plan to do so - perhaps because the person coming to the UK is just checking things out. If (s)he gets a job, they may follow. If no job then they may leave the UK and return to the rest of the family in the adopted country.
There are many posts on these forums where people keep options open. They may go back to their original country but if they can't get a job/home etc then they return to the adopted country. One can't say they are habitually resident in the UK in three months if the return is not permanent.
By the same token, the clearly planned return, with factors like those I mentioned, may mean they don't have to wait for that first month.
From posts on these forums, it seems the majority of people are being told they have to wait six months. Some are told three months. I've not been aware of anyone being told one month but there have been those who have had claims allowed with no waiting period.
Things are not always what they seem and officials sometimes have information not known to others.
If that "one month to three months" was something that was applied then there would be an automatic refusal of benefit before one month was up without individual circumstances being considered.
Now for reality.
Go along to the benefits office within a couple of days of getting back to the UK and you're much likely to get a different answer than if you went along after 3 or more weeks.
Last edited by BristolUK; Dec 23rd 2009 at 6:48 pm.
Dec 24th 2009, 4:46 am
#9
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
There have been numerous decisions and revised guidance before and since 1999. Sometimes guidance replaces previous guidance. Sometimes it's supplemental to it.
But note the use of words and expressions open to interpretation in the above.
If one has planned a return by, for example, selling a home or ending a lease, resigning/retiring, arranging a new home, perhaps a new job, registering children in school, having all your belongings moved to your new home etc is hardly a "moment" in life.
It needs to be remembered that the HRT was brought in to discourage Benefit Tourism; claims from people simply visiting. If things look genuine and reasonable, then officials will not usually fail applicants.
But even if this reproduced ruling was the one applied at the exclusion of all the others, "A period of between one and three months is likely to be appropriate to demonstrate that a person’s residence is habitual in nature. Cogent reasons should be given where a period longer than three months is considered necessary" would indicate one to three months was fine while outside of that may still be considered reasonable depending on the circumstances.
An obvious one for longer than three months would be where other members of the benefit applicant's family had yet to join them and had no immediate plan to do so - perhaps because the person coming to the UK is just checking things out. If (s)he gets a job, they may follow. If no job then they may leave the UK and return to the rest of the family in the adopted country.
There are many posts on these forums where people keep options open. They may go back to their original country but if they can't get a job/home etc then they return to the adopted country. One can't say they are habitually resident in the UK in three months if the return is not permanent.
By the same token, the clearly planned return, with factors like those I mentioned, may mean they don't have to wait for that first month.
From posts on these forums, it seems the majority of people are being told they have to wait six months. Some are told three months. I've not been aware of anyone being told one month but there have been those who have had claims allowed with no waiting period.
Things are not always what they seem and officials sometimes have information not known to others.
If that "one month to three months" was something that was applied then there would be an automatic refusal of benefit before one month was up without individual circumstances being considered.
Now for reality. Go along to the benefits office within a couple of days of getting back to the UK and you're much likely to get a different answer than if you went along after 3 or more weeks.
But note the use of words and expressions open to interpretation in the above.
If one has planned a return by, for example, selling a home or ending a lease, resigning/retiring, arranging a new home, perhaps a new job, registering children in school, having all your belongings moved to your new home etc is hardly a "moment" in life.
It needs to be remembered that the HRT was brought in to discourage Benefit Tourism; claims from people simply visiting. If things look genuine and reasonable, then officials will not usually fail applicants.
But even if this reproduced ruling was the one applied at the exclusion of all the others, "A period of between one and three months is likely to be appropriate to demonstrate that a person’s residence is habitual in nature. Cogent reasons should be given where a period longer than three months is considered necessary" would indicate one to three months was fine while outside of that may still be considered reasonable depending on the circumstances.
An obvious one for longer than three months would be where other members of the benefit applicant's family had yet to join them and had no immediate plan to do so - perhaps because the person coming to the UK is just checking things out. If (s)he gets a job, they may follow. If no job then they may leave the UK and return to the rest of the family in the adopted country.
There are many posts on these forums where people keep options open. They may go back to their original country but if they can't get a job/home etc then they return to the adopted country. One can't say they are habitually resident in the UK in three months if the return is not permanent.
By the same token, the clearly planned return, with factors like those I mentioned, may mean they don't have to wait for that first month.
From posts on these forums, it seems the majority of people are being told they have to wait six months. Some are told three months. I've not been aware of anyone being told one month but there have been those who have had claims allowed with no waiting period.
Things are not always what they seem and officials sometimes have information not known to others.
If that "one month to three months" was something that was applied then there would be an automatic refusal of benefit before one month was up without individual circumstances being considered.
Now for reality.
Go along to the benefits office within a couple of days of getting back to the UK and you're much likely to get a different answer than if you went along after 3 or more weeks.
Dec 24th 2009, 6:47 am
#10
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: WA but not forever!!!
Posts: 943
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Thank you for the responses.
Hubby has spoken with the unversity and as he took 1 year out of the course and it is a 3 year rolling course they are willing for him to re-join and because it is modular they seem to think the international fees don't apply. I really do hope this is the case as he is only 12-18 months away from finishing.
I've spoken a little more to centrelink here today and I have an appointment to go and speak with them and submit documentation for family tax a/b, rent assistance, and parenting payment. Apparently proceeds from a house sale are not taken into consideration over here for benefits and it looks like we may get between $650-$720 per fortnight which is obviously a huge amount of money.
As far as UK is concerned I think all we will get is family allowance.
This leaves us to decide when to travel back.
Options
1) travel Feb and if we are 100% sure we want to stay get things shipped and try to break lease
2) Wait until end of lease and travel back during the summer. 5 year old will miss 75% of year one as she will only have started year 1 here in feb
3) travel back late August. son will get to do a few terms of Kindy. Financial support from Centrelink. Less time spent living in my mum's house in UK before hubby starts course. Daughter does a few terms of year 1 here but I have to stay here until September and we will pass up the opportunity of a temporary move.
So so hard.
Hubby has spoken with the unversity and as he took 1 year out of the course and it is a 3 year rolling course they are willing for him to re-join and because it is modular they seem to think the international fees don't apply. I really do hope this is the case as he is only 12-18 months away from finishing.
I've spoken a little more to centrelink here today and I have an appointment to go and speak with them and submit documentation for family tax a/b, rent assistance, and parenting payment. Apparently proceeds from a house sale are not taken into consideration over here for benefits and it looks like we may get between $650-$720 per fortnight which is obviously a huge amount of money.
As far as UK is concerned I think all we will get is family allowance.
This leaves us to decide when to travel back.
Options
1) travel Feb and if we are 100% sure we want to stay get things shipped and try to break lease
2) Wait until end of lease and travel back during the summer. 5 year old will miss 75% of year one as she will only have started year 1 here in feb
3) travel back late August. son will get to do a few terms of Kindy. Financial support from Centrelink. Less time spent living in my mum's house in UK before hubby starts course. Daughter does a few terms of year 1 here but I have to stay here until September and we will pass up the opportunity of a temporary move.
So so hard.
Dec 24th 2009, 11:39 am
#11
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
I think (just my own personal take from what you've said) that you'd be better off stopping here in OZ untill your hubby finishes his degree and you have had time to save a little...then go back to UK if you still want to.
Merry xmas and best wishes for 2010
Merry xmas and best wishes for 2010
Dec 24th 2009, 12:27 pm
#12
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: WA but not forever!!!
Posts: 943
Re: Govt financial support. Timing of moving back to the UK.
Merry Xmas. I need all those wishes for 2010. I'm not going to say 2010 can't get any worse than 09 cos I know it can but I'd like a bit of good health Merry Xmas y'all and all the best for 2010.
