stevelisaw

Thank you.

And yes you are right.....wiccans usually are never cruel or harmful...and the ones I know are very funny. Not to mention great friends of nature.

dailyn

HAHAHAHA!!

Rete

Actually I'm old enough to have lived the name changes when one described a US Citizen of the African race. When I was a youngster it was Negro. Nothing was meant derogatorially by the word. Of course, some people used a derivative of it and it was derogatory without doubt. Then they went to the use of the term "Black " in the 60's and 70's and now it is Afro-American.

And we won't touch on the A-A term because we all remember my stand on that. I believe in prefixing the word American.

I fully understand your interpretation of the word "pastie" and agree that one word can be used in two ways to be completely separate in its meaning.

Bye you all for now.

Rete

Ranjini

You should see Ken when he starts wearing his shorts in summer. Positively pastie.... Shivan always tells him "you should put your legs out in the sun... they look like milk bottles." Hehehe...

stevelisaw

LOL! I'm always a bit pale during the winter, but do tan well in the summer. (Thanks for those genes Dad!...lol) My little Ian, well ok lately I can look him in the eye when both standing so he's not so little...he gets brown as a berry as the saying goes.

Ranjini

That figures! Must be Ken's pastie British genes...

stevelisaw

I got lucky....Dad's family came over from Italy. Now my mother is very pale and my sister takes after her. LOL!

Ranjini

I'm not going there, Patrick. Especially the part about what Lisa and I believe...
I agree with the above sentence, however. Poeple make sweeping statements about people of another nationality (especially minority immigrant races in this country with skin tones other than "white") because of ignorance. For the most part I overlook it for that reason. Personally, I have not been subject to any discrimination from my husband's family or friends, because my skin was a different to colour to theirs. So I have no reason to become defensive.
Having said that, I am eternally grateful that I do not form a part of the workforce in this country in these difficult times. The economy is bad, jobs are becoming harder and harder to find, people are stressed out because of the prevailing climate in the country. And I certainly would not like to be at the receiving end of some frustrated, prejudiced person looking for someone to dump on....

BritAmerica

It's 4pm here and after reading this post, I'M HUNGRY!!!! MMmmmmm P A S T Y...yum! I just had one for the first time last night at a place in Minnapolis, Minnesota called Molly Quinn's. It was delicious!

Oh, yah...and made the mistake of ordering it and refering to it as a PAYstee. lol!!!!

lairdside

I disagree with that. Some 'mixed race' black people can be very white and pasty indeed. Hence the phrase ' Light not white'.

Ranjini

I was thinking on the same lines. Imagine how it would be if all of us decided to hop across the pond for a sojourn in ol' Blighty hehehe... Hardly fair exchange.

207lonsdale

Kem is here in the UK right now (finally got his vacation back after having it cancelled on him!) ....... and has asked me to point out he is an *American of African descent* and that the acceptable term for his race would be *African American*. He states that in respect of his own race, the term *Afro American* would be considered by many as being derogatory ...... as the term *Afro* conjures up images of a black person with a very large afro on top of his head ... which is one of the stereotypes!

Kem is currently trying to decide whether to grow a huge afro just so everyone will know what he is ...... he is currently sporting a bald head and is concerned that he might be mistaken for a pastie!

Kem knows that you did not in any way mean to cause offence by using the term *Afro-American*, but just wanted to point out how easy it might be to offend a particular race without even knowing it. The dictionary definition may well support using the term *Afro-American* but if you were to use that term around many *African Americans* they may well correct you.

Dekka's Angel

I agree with Kem about naming preferences, but disagree with him about Afros =)

The term Afro-American, along with the term Black, was first advocated by academics and activists in the late 1890's to substitute for the term Negro (which, contrary to something someone asserted in this thread, was not chosen by us and largely despised as early as 1900 -- but still accepted by the older generations until the 1960's and tolerated with a smile until the because back then folks made clear they were prepared to kill you over these types of things.) Afro-American was used with real seriousness only int the transitional period between the death of Malcolm X in 1965 and during the Black Power movement beginning in the late 1960's. Soon thereafter, most of us stopped using that name too (because nobody wants to be labeled by a hairstyle).

The label I choose for myself African-American, or Black. My parents always considered themselves Black. They tolerated Negro (and even worse "colored") because they were raised in the deep south during a time where there was the unspoken community decision that it was necessary not to argue with anyone could and would enforce what they saw as their right to define you by calling you what *they* wanted to -- keeping shut about your own feelings helped ensure that you could get a job and live to see another day (our men tolerated being called "boy" too; to this day folks still argue in all seriousness that we didn't "mind" it because nothing "bad" was meant by it).

Today the overwhelming majority of Americans of African descent under the age of 70 or so choose Black or African-American (polls have always indicated a virtual tie between these choices). It is only the older generation, who were successfully indoctrinated to believe there was something shameful and animal and lesser about being of African descent, who deliberately avoid the label African-American for themselves.

Afros are not inherently negatively stereotypical, though. They became popular with the ascention of the Black Power Movement in the mid 1960's as a rejection of assimilation, reclaiming of a stolen heritage -- literally going back to our (nappy) roots through the rejection of chemical processing/straightening of our hair. Afros transitioned to decorative cornrows and braids for women -- styles that have existed in Africa for thousands of years -- beginning in the late 1970's (until Bo Derek showed up with them). Today it's a non-issue -- we wear our hair as we please -- but back then it was a very serious and positive political statement. Afros are making a bit of a comeback right now, something that scares my kids to no end I'm sure I still have my pick around here somewhere.......

Tell Kem not to worry! My father (very light skinned) has routinely shaved his head every summer that I can remember, and he always got a tan within days. Go for SPF-4 if he needs a little boost - my eldest told me it's not very sunny in Britain

Rete

I find this unbelievably insane. It is the very first time I have heard that the term Afro American is considered by "Americans of African descent" as derogatory because it conjures up negative imagines of their type of hair follicles.

And in actuality, if I should have an occasion to speak with a member of the now to be known as "African American" race I can't imagine that the issue of what they would like to be known as would come into the conversation. Usually any interaction I would have would be limited to "hello", "how are you", "good night". To be honest, I have no friends of African American status so discussions on a face to face basis regarding this topic would be nil. My husband has relatives who are from the African American race (his Native American niece is married to an African American man and they have two children. Hmmm wonder if they consider themselves American, Native Americans, African Americans or something else altogether) and if I should ever meet them, I will have to ask them how they prefer to be thought of.

BTW tell Kem if he were to meet me, he should now that I prefer to be known as "An American Without Ties to Racial or Ethnical Backgrounds of my Forefathers". I am not German American. Nor am I Polish American. Nor am I French American. Nor am I Jewish American. Nor am I Lutheran American. Nor am I Russian American. You see my mother was German, I was born in German, her parents were German/Lutheran and French/Jewish (grandmother) and my father's parents were from Poland which was at that time occupied by Russia and their BCs say Russia but they considered themselves Polish/Catholics. Although I love the food of all those countries and admire their culture and history (for the most part), I am not Polish, German, French or Russia nor do I call reference to myself by any religious affiliation. I married a man whose first wife was 100% Native American (great granddaugther to Red Cloud) and they had three children who have Native American status in their tribes.

I am plain and simply 'AN AMERICAN" And for the record, I don't give a tinker's damn what background a person has or what color their skin is or what their mother language is. I respect people based on their actions, not their heritage, social standing, bank accounts or here in NYC, fear factor.

Rete

thing1

I'm a Mongrel American.

mon·grel

n.

1. An animal or a plant resulting from various interbreedings, especially a dog of mixed or undetermined breed.

2. A cross between different breeds, groups, or varieties, especially a mixture that is or appears to be incongruous.