FBAR?
 

Hi All,

Just wondering if any of the returning expats have filed their FBARS? I think deadline is June 30th.

Re: FBAR?
 

Yes, I filed mine at beginning of the calendar year. It is something I can get done and out the way before the chore of tax filing starts up.

Re: FBAR?
 

It seems pretty straightforward. I don't think I need a specialist to do it right?

Also do you put the amount in dollars or pounds?

Thanks for your help. First year filing!

Re: FBAR?
 

Dollars.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf

Do make sure you read the rest of the instructions and you should be able to complete it yourself.

Re: FBAR?
 

Thanks :)

Re: FBAR?
 

Yes, groan!

Re: FBAR?
 

Ah the dreaded FBAR! I'm just a tad closer now in making a decision about US citizenship...SMH

Re: FBAR?
 

Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: FBAR?
 

I have opened an HSBC ACCOUNT in the UK but will not transfer $$$ until after June 30. So next year I will no doubt have to hire an international tax attorney for FBAR.
They give one 60 days to deposit $$$. I have already received an ATM card cheque book and credit card without a money deposit in the UK??? Feels WEIRD.

Re: FBAR?
 

I'm not sue if it matters if it's after June 30th. I believe they go from Jan to Dec which is why this FBAR is for last year (2012) Can anyone comment on this?

Re: FBAR?
 

Correct! See...... you have the FBAR down already!;)

Re: FBAR?
 

What is FBARS? Is this something else I have to file every year for the USA - in addition to US tax returns?

Re: FBAR?
 

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...nts-%28FBAR%29

This applies whether or not you are actually living in the US, if you are a "US person."

Re: FBAR?
 

FBAR stands for- Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts.

FAQ here.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...quirements#FR4

Re: FBAR?
 

You may have to fill one in, with your tax return, when you move back to the UK.

Re: FBAR?
 

The FBAR is not part of the tax return and applies wherever in the world you live if you meet the criteria to be required to file.

Re: FBAR?
 

OK, we do it at the same time as the jolly old tax return and it goes to the US accountants. My understanding is you declare the maximum amount you've held in your non US bank accounts. Something to do with making sure you aren't money laundering, and it isn't a tax liability.
I will be glad when we are back to only having the tax return headache once a year!

Re: FBAR?
 

Trust me ;) I'm leaning against doing it. Too much of a hassle

Re: FBAR?
 

I will have to do one next year. Hopefully after that I will never have to do one again

Re: FBAR?
 

Hi.

A couple of things.

First, and MOST IMPORTANT. This year the deadline is JUNE 28, FRIDAY and it has to be RECEIVED in Detroit by that date, not merely postmarked by that date like a tax return. If you haven't filed, you need FEDEX or something like that to get it in there by the deadline.

* FBAR runs the calendar year Jan/Dec, so you can put the money anytime before/after June and it won't make a difference.

* You must fill in the numbers using USD. You can use the currency conversion chart that is online from the US Treasury for 2012 or a few other sources.

* While it does not have to be filed with your taxes, I believe there is a checkbox on the tax return that indicates you will be filing this form (not sure).

You have to file an FBAR if, at any time during the year, you had more than $10,000 USD in a bank account under your control. If you have two bank accounts, then you add them together to find the aggregate amount to see if > $10,000. If you have 3, you add them together....etc.

Once you cross the $10,000 threshold, you have to report ALL foreign bank accounts. So if you have $10,001 in account one in the UK, but $1 in account two in France and $20 in account three in the Caymans, you have to report accounts 1, 2, and 3 on the FBAR. Technically, even if you only went over the threshold for a few minutes (i.e. you were just transferring the money through this account to another) then you still would have a reportable account.

Please note that if you have a significantly higher amount of money in a bank account, say more than $50,000 or more than $250,000 then you need to consider filing a FATCA report. This is filed at tax return time I believe. The exact amount that triggers this depends on your location and marital status on a sliding scale.

Re: FBAR?
 

Very interesting!! Even if you were to not have a bank account in the UK, so long as you have "signing authority" on an account, you have to complete this.

I am glad I saw this thread because I didn't realize any of this was necessary unless you had income over a certain level but it seems it is necessary for everyone to complete it. What I am not sure about is if this is only necessary for small business/those self-employed or if you have to complete it even if you work for someone else. It's confusing because the IRS doc linked above says that "any individual" who meets the criteria must file but the link itself is for small businesses.

Re: FBAR?
 

Not just small business. Every American citizen has to file if they meet the criteria.

Re: FBAR?
 

Not just citizens "United States persons."

It's important to be aware too that if a permanent resident leaves the US with the intention of simply allowing their green card to lapse, it will for immigration purposes, but not for the purpose of the FBAR reporting requirement, nor for the obligation to file tax returns as even if you live abroad you would still be considered a US tax resident.

To resolve this the green card must be officially surrendered.

http://london.usembassy.gov/dhs/uscis/abandon.html

8854 may also be required to be filed depending on your situation.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-In...tion-Statement

Re: FBAR?
 

I know that might seem confusing with the FAQ appearing under that heading but it does apply to individuals too and actually has nothing to do with income.

You could be making not a penny in income in a current account with a balance of $10,000 and would still be required to file, actually you could have less than $10,000 in your own name but have power of attorney over your parents affairs, for example, and still be required to file.

You could, I suppose, leave most of your money in the USA and only transfer small amounts, never exceeding $10,000 combined balance in your non US accounts at any time during the year but that would be a lot more work than just completing the FBAR once a year in my opinion.

I came across that link when I was doing my own research and I posted it because it clarifies some of the points that I was questioning better than the instructions which come with the form itself.

Re: FBAR?
 

I thought the IRS was on the east coast, not the midwest.

Re: FBAR?
 

The IRS is everywhere. :-)

Actually for a large number of paperwork processing elements of the US government, the processing centers are outside of the DC-area as the rents are too expensive and it's easier to be more centrally located to the rest of the country than just on one crowded coast.

Here are the addresses to send in your documents:

U.S. Department of the Treasury
P.O. Box 32621
Detroit, MI 48232-0621

If an express delivery service is used, send completed forms to:

IRS Enterprise Computing Center
ATTN: CTR Operations Mailroom, 4th Floor
985 Michigan Avenue
Detroit, MI 48226

Re: FBAR?
 

This is correct and many forget to surrender their green card which then causes a lot of trouble

Re: FBAR?
 

And note that FATCA applies to a range of foreign assets and not just cash - i.e. if you have a UK house or a UK private pension pot and so-on.

Re: FBAR?
 

A house or any real property is not reportable under FATCA. If you have a mortgage with a foreign institution I'd probably report that.

Re: FBAR?
 

Correct - I have a UK property that's held in a Ltd Company name and I'd forgotten that it was the Ltd Company bit that made it reportable.

These links are useful.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Typeso...bleonForm-8938

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corpor...-Form-8938#Q12

Re: FBAR?
 

Those are good, thank you.
I like this one too.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Compar...R-Requirements

Re: FBAR?
 

Thanks for this thread, never heard of an FBAR, what happens if you are late doing the forms? I got lump sum annuity payment last Sept. it is over $10,000 so need to do one of these then. Should I do it and send it late?

Re: FBAR?
 

There are so many stinking forms it is easy to miss the significance of one unless we monitor forums such as this on a regular basis. It is an unfortunate responsibility of USC that we must keep a watch out for these things.

Receipt of a payment is not a cause for filing FBAR.
But if that $10,000 + went into a 'foreign' (by US measures) bank account, and added to some other funds no matter how small and the total definitely went over $10,000 then there would be cause for filing FBAR.

from http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...nts-%28FBAR%29
I paste the excerpt...
Who Must File an FBAR
United States persons are required to file an FBAR if:
The United States person had a financial interest in or signature authority over at least one financial account located outside of the United States; and
The aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year to be reported.


If it were me I would complete it and send it, by UPS or some such, as soon as possible, with included explanation as suggested below;
This link http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...g-Requirements advises

Q. What happens if an account holder is required to file an FBAR and fails to do so?
A. Failure to file an FBAR when required to do so may potentially result in civil penalties, criminal penalties or both. If you learn you were required to file FBARs for earlier years, you should file the delinquent FBAR reports and attach a statement explaining why the reports are filed late. No penalty will be asserted if the IRS determines that the late filings were due to reasonable cause. Keep copies of what you send for your records.


It is possible to send FBAR electronically. I e-filed mine this year for the first time. It does require enrolling and then waiting for the approval before it can be sent so it is not as immediate gratification as sending off paper copies but it gives the confidence that it was received over there.
http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/E...ndividual.html

Re: FBAR?
 

Thanks so much John or is it Johns other half.. I will do that asap.
Just filling in that form for e filing and it wants an EIN, could you tell me what that is please. Never mind it took it without that filled in.
p.s John this is Charley girl by the way, had to re-register

Re: FBAR?
 

EIN is Federal Employer Identification Number, which you won't have as you don't have a US employer.

Yes, hi, Charley girl, I saw your earlier posting.
This is John, June doesn't visit here anymore, relies on me for updates. I look in only couple times a week. Just passed our 3 year return anniversary so haven't much to contribute nowadays on moving back. Hard to break the habit of looking in though and occasionally, as with FBAR, can sometimes contribute to help others.
Then it seems I don't fit in MBTUK very well because I am not in raptures about being back. I'm here now so here I will stay and I don't feel so strongly that I would say I regret coming - but ..... I could have done without the struggle to acclimatize and realize now that I doubt I ever will entirely.

We waved when we came through Leicester last week, did you see us, lol? We had a mid week trip to Birmingham, had never been there ever before, it was good visit. Took the train between Peterborough and Birmingham.

Re: FBAR?
 

I agree with you, John. It is really stressful watching out for all these things we have to do for the USA when we are in the UK. I am so afraid I miss one - and if it were not for this forum, I wouldn't know about any of it.

I am seriously considering not even having a bank account of my own over there - and not having one with my SO either. I will just give my money to him. I want to minimize stress as much as possible over there because I have had enough of it here.

Re: FBAR?
 

John - You have a lot to contribute and you have helped me, for one, immensely, over the months. Even updates as to how you are doing over there help us all. In that way, we are able to "feel" the entire transition with you.

Also, we have become a community and we are interested in - and care - about our fellow expat members, so it is always a delight to read their messages. :)

Re: FBAR?
 

It does bear serious thinking about how one will structure finances in UK if US still has claim on tax reporting.

I get stressed prior to completing the forms because a lot hangs on getting it right (or wrong). Never can be sure what am going to come up against that I don't have an answer to when there are options. I pretty much got the hang of most of it but each year as we do new things such as start a pension or get 401(k) payment there is always a need to find the right way to answer.
I stress that I will make a simple mistake and end up down a big hole because of it.
Once complete and when I feel I done a good / correct job of it then the stress goes.
Sometimes reading in detail on message boards can create confusion as discussion goes round in circles and never a straight answer.

Re: FBAR?
 

Good to know. Glad I can help.

Things are not bad over here, and sometimes I think it may sound so from what I say, but I was so embedded into US ways that this seemed like a backward step that I hadn't anticipated. DW has had an easier time of it than me but then she wanted to come back.

Re: FBAR?
 

Even though I have dreamed of going back for more years than I care to remember I, too, am a little nervous about it. I haven't had much good to say about the U.S. but now that I am about to return, I am realizing how much I have grown used to it. There are certain stores that I like, the large rooms in the homes, larger gardens, etc. I think there will be a grieving period ahead. I won't ever be able to erase the memories of the years in the USA, no matter how hard I might try.

I am sure there will be days just as I wake in the morning when I think for a few seconds that I am in the USA and as I wake, reality will hit that I am actually in the UK. It will feel funny for a while.

I am leaving behind most things that I own - all my favorite appliances, furniture, etc. This is one of the hardest things to do. However, I realized a long time ago that happiness doesn't lie in "things" and they can always be replaced.

The warm summers will be left behind, too. That will be an adjustment initself. I don't mind the colder weather so much but I will certainly miss the number of hours of glorious sunshine we get in the USA in summertime.

Over all, I know that the UK has much more to offer me as I get older and it will be good for me.

In the last six weeks or so I think I have created a list of pros and cons about the move in my mind and the UK came out ahead. Nevertheless, what I leave behind will have to be grieved and it will take time. One day, though, that grief will be gone and I will finally be completely home. :)

I am excited to be going home to my former boyfriend, too, but I had to separate that in my mind so I could be finally sure that moving back was really the best for "me" - and it is.