claiming job seekers

Old Apr 28th 2011, 10:38 pm
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Default claiming job seekers

Hi all, just wandered if anyone had any problems claiming job seekers when they returned from a country other than an EU one? I know we have to fill in the habitual residence test, but i just wandered if anyone had been denied their claim.
Me and my sons have had to put claims in as we cannot find work and have filled in the forms but not heard anything for three weeks. We have no ties to canada anymore well after my OH returns hopefully this weekend!
The job centre sent me to do a pathways course today but when i went they said because I'd not been back in the UK for three years I couldn't do it unless i paid for it and as im not getting a penny from anywhere, that's not going to happen!
I hate the fact that we have to claim, never had to do this before and i feel a right scrounger but we can't live on fresh air! Anyone else had these problems?
Been finding many things really hard since we got back. Not regretting it at all but we do seem to be penalized for leaving the country!
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Old Apr 28th 2011, 10:46 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by fatcat65 View Post
Hi all, just wandered if anyone had any problems claiming job seekers when they returned from a country other than an EU one? I know we have to fill in the habitual residence test, but i just wandered if anyone had been denied their claim.
Me and my sons have had to put claims in as we cannot find work and have filled in the forms but not heard anything for three weeks. We have no ties to canada anymore well after my OH returns hopefully this weekend!
The job centre sent me to do a pathways course today but when i went they said because I'd not been back in the UK for three years I couldn't do it unless i paid for it and as im not getting a penny from anywhere, that's not going to happen!
I hate the fact that we have to claim, never had to do this before and i feel a right scrounger but we can't live on fresh air! Anyone else had these problems?
Been finding many things really hard since we got back. Not regretting it at all but we do seem to be penalized for leaving the country!
There was a thread on the MBTTUK forum just last week from someone who was denied Jobseekers allowance (I think). You might find some of the responses to that thread helpful.

Here are a couple of related threads:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=708771

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=714110

Last edited by dunroving; Apr 28th 2011 at 10:50 pm.
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Old Apr 29th 2011, 1:33 am
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

You really need to ask - phone or ask at the next signing.

I'm guessing your OH still being in Canada might be an issue but your sons ought to have heard by now. Over 18?

Have a look over other Job Seekers and Habitual residence threads. There are several.

I'm surprised they sent you for the Pathways course. Are you in an inner city type area?
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Old Apr 29th 2011, 4:54 am
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
You really need to ask - phone or ask at the next signing.

I'm guessing your OH still being in Canada might be an issue but your sons ought to have heard by now. Over 18?

Have a look over other Job Seekers and Habitual residence threads. There are several.

I'm surprised they sent you for the Pathways course. Are you in an inner city type area?
No not at all...and i have done alot of the things they teach on the courses so i thought it was odd too, but I don't have the quals to back up my experience so i guess that was the thinking behind it! I guess they have to look like they are doing something to help you! I've looked at some of the threads but there doesn't seem to be any outcomes posted. similar problems but they haven't posted whether they got their benefits or not...read the cases too so looks like if we are turned down we can appeal using the cases. Will probably end up at citizens advice so i'll update so others can see outcomes. Yes my son is over 18.
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Old Apr 29th 2011, 8:31 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by fatcat65 View Post
I've looked at some of the threads but there doesn't seem to be any outcomes posted. similar problems but they haven't posted whether they got their benefits or not...
Yes, I find that quite frustrating, not knowing how things worked out. But there are enough "success stories" posted to suggest people should persist.

read the cases too so looks like if we are turned down we can appeal using the cases. Will probably end up at citizens advice so i'll update so others can see outcomes. Yes my son is over 18.
The most common problems are staff wanting to impose a "qualifying period" when there isn't one and when someone is unsure or just less positive about their intentions. Those cases often involve a spouse still abroad.

I asked about the inner city thing because going on such courses usually involves people who have been signed on for 6 months or disadvantaged in the job market in some way (one of those being in certain areas) but maybe things have changed in some way since I was there.

Funny thing....I have read quite a bit lately about there being less funding for such courses so even less of a reason to send a new signer on one.
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Old Apr 29th 2011, 9:00 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Fatcat65...just saw your post in the other JSA thread and checked out a couple of other posts of yours.

Looks like you didn't go and claim immediately you arrived - that's always good.

On the other hand, would I be right in thinking you've been in a few different places since you got back. That could be seen as not being very settled.

Anything you can show that indicates a planned return to the UK would help.
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Old Apr 30th 2011, 10:18 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Fatcat65...just saw your post in the other JSA thread and checked out a couple of other posts of yours.

Looks like you didn't go and claim immediately you arrived - that's always good.

On the other hand, would I be right in thinking you've been in a few different places since you got back. That could be seen as not being very settled.

Anything you can show that indicates a planned return to the UK would help.
no i didn't claim straight away i left it a few weeks...but i haven't been anywhere only down to Wales to visit friends and the south of england for two days other than that, no where. We were looking at a few different places/countries but never went. Beginning to wish we had now!!
So is there a waiting period do you think...my youngest son and i have been back nearly eight weeks and not had a penny yet!
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Old May 1st 2011, 1:17 am
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by fatcat65 View Post
So is there a waiting period do you think...my youngest son and i have been back nearly eight weeks and not had a penny yet!
No waiting period, but some staff do like to try to apply one. I have heard of some people being told a month, 3 months and six months but there really is no qualifying period at all. Each application is supposed to be decided on its own merits.

A phrase sometimes used is an appreciable period and one might (not unreasonably) conclude that some sort of qualifying period could be applied.

But where people have been able to show a planned return - giving up tenancy/employment in the country left, one way tickets, goods brought back with them (or on the way), arranged housing, registered with doctor, schools arranged, bank accounts opened (or resurrected)....well, these people have been regarded as taking up residency immediately and been paid from the date of a claim - even it it took a couple of weeks to resolve the issue.

Fleaflyfloflum is a member on BE I remember as succeeding. Take a look at this thread.

There are more than one, of course. That's just a memorable name.

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Old May 1st 2011, 8:23 am
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
No waiting period, but some staff do like to try to apply one. I have heard of some people being told a month, 3 months and six months but there really is no qualifying period at all. Each application is supposed to be decided on its own merits.

A phrase sometimes used is an appreciable period and one might (not unreasonably) conclude that some sort of qualifying period could be applied.

But where people have been able to show a planned return - giving up tenancy/employment in the country left, one way tickets, goods brought back with them (or on the way), arranged housing, registered with doctor, schools arranged, bank accounts opened (or resurrected)....well, these people have been regarded as taking up residency immediately and been paid from the date of a claim - even it it took a couple of weeks to resolve the issue.

Fleaflyfloflum is a member on BE I remember as succeeding. Take a look at this thread.

There are more than one, of course. That's just a memorable name.
thank Bristol I appreciate the advice. Hopefully our case will be stronger now as my OH is on his way back as i write so he can go and sign on next week too. I'll go see citizens advice this week and see what they say. I have to say those forms are not very good. I didn't realize the importance of it and didn't write anything at the end just answered the questions, as i had no idea the importance of it.
Does this apply to any financial support you apply for as, what do people do for money if they have none to support themselves with food etc? How do they expect you to get to the job centre when you have no money? I just wondered what the situation was with that? I kept being told to apply for a council house as we would get it paid for a private rent and we would get help with that, but after reading about this HRT it seems that it applies to that too. So what happens to us? Especially if you can't get income support either, I always thought that was the safety net for people? That no one would be left without your basic needs such as food, shelter and warmth! I was under a misapprehension there wasn't I? Now I remember why we left in the first place as we don't look after our own! We look after everybody elses first! Sorry but this does make one bitter. Especially when you've paid into the system for nearly 30 years and when you need some help its not forthcoming!
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Old May 1st 2011, 4:40 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by fatcat65 View Post
I have to say those forms are not very good. I didn't realize the importance of it and didn't write anything at the end just answered the questions, as i had no idea the importance of it.
It's not too late to add information. You could either catch them before they decide the claims or ask for a review of the decision using the additional info.

Does this apply to any financial support you apply for as, what do people do for money if they have none to support themselves with food etc?
Just as most people would likely have some "arrangement" when moving abroad, most would likely have something similar when returning from abroad.

There are exceptions of course and some compromise can be worked out. A rather obvious one would be the return of your OH and them accepting that HRT is satisfied from then. At least that would get everything established, then following through with appealing on the earlier period to get arrears.

How do they expect you to get to the job centre when you have no money? I just wondered what the situation was with that?
If someone has no funds at all to use, there are crisis loans available - something to tide people over to the first payment and then it's repaid from the benefit payments. They're quite hard to get where entitlement to benefit hasn't been established.

I kept being told to apply for a council house as we would get it paid for a private rent and we would get help with that, but after reading about this HRT it seems that it applies to that too.
Yes. In theory local authorities make their own HRT decisions but it's highly unlikely they'll disagree with one already made.

So what happens to us? Especially if you can't get income support either, I always thought that was the safety net for people? That no one would be left without your basic needs such as food, shelter and warmth!
You are pretty much correct with that, so long as people are normally/habitually resident

Given how long ago you made yor claim, I wonder if they are just waiting to see if you have left the UK again; as if they thought maybe you were just visiting. It happens.

I'm assuming there's a safe mailing address for where you are? When did you last attend a signing on?
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Old May 1st 2011, 6:35 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
It's not too late to add information. You could either catch them before they decide the claims or ask for a review of the decision using the additional info.



Just as most people would likely have some "arrangement" when moving abroad, most would likely have something similar when returning from abroad.

There are exceptions of course and some compromise can be worked out. A rather obvious one would be the return of your OH and them accepting that HRT is satisfied from then. At least that would get everything established, then following through with appealing on the earlier period to get arrears.



If someone has no funds at all to use, there are crisis loans available - something to tide people over to the first payment and then it's repaid from the benefit payments. They're quite hard to get where entitlement to benefit hasn't been established.



Yes. In theory local authorities make their own HRT decisions but it's highly unlikely they'll disagree with one already made.



You are pretty much correct with that, so long as people are normally/habitually resident

Given how long ago you made yor claim, I wonder if they are just waiting to see if you have left the UK again; as if they thought maybe you were just visiting. It happens.I'm assuming there's a safe mailing address for where you are? When did you last attend a signing on?
Yes I was wondering if they think because your OH is still over there and you are here with children then you are just here for a holiday and looking for a bit of extra pocket money. Of course we know that isn't the case but maybe that's how it looks to these people that make decisions?

I have claimed and received JSA this time around as I am still unemployed, but I am single with no kids and I did work here for a year 2009-2010 so that may have gone in my favour??
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Old May 1st 2011, 8:37 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by Beedubya View Post
I have claimed and received JSA this time around as I am still unemployed, but I am single with no kids and I did work here for a year 2009-2010 so that may have gone in my favour??
If that means you returned and worked before claiming then certainly that would make a difference. Your claim would really be as a result of UK work ending more so than because of returning to the UK.

If you mean you worked 2009/10, left and then returned to the UK then you wouldn't have been away a huge length of time, so that would be more favourable as well.
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Old May 1st 2011, 9:08 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
If that means you returned and worked before claiming then certainly that would make a difference. Your claim would really be as a result of UK work ending more so than because of returning to the UK.

If you mean you worked 2009/10, left and then returned to the UK then you wouldn't have been away a huge length of time, so that would be more favourable as well.
I was back in Australia for only 10 months. I do think though that Australia has or at least did have some kind of reciprocal agreement with the UK???

But then I think fatcat is in Canada and that should be the same as Australia both being still under The Queen so to speak?? Commonwealth countries and all that?

Or maybe it is just simply that I paid tax for a year (plus the years I paid before I emigrated and I did come back here and work for a year in the 80's).

Did I mention I was a ping ponger LOL!!
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Old May 1st 2011, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by Beedubya View Post
I was back in Australia for only 10 months. I do think though that Australia has or at least did have some kind of reciprocal agreement with the UK???
The reciprocal aspect doesn't matter for HRT. The short period away would be a factor....and so would....

Did I mention I was a ping ponger LOL!!
I was going to make that a third possibility but decided I did enough guessing.

If you have spells abroad and in between you keep returning to the UK then the UK as a home that you return to is a bit of a constant.
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Old May 1st 2011, 9:47 pm
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Default Re: claiming job seekers

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
The reciprocal aspect doesn't matter for HRT. The short period away would be a factor....and so would....



I was going to make that a third possibility but decided I did enough guessing.

If you have spells abroad and in between you keep returning to the UK then the UK as a home that you return to is a bit of a constant.
Then again I first emigrated in 1981 - almost 30 years of living away from the UK, whereas fatcat and family have only been away a short time.......
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