Macca67

Their celibacy is not really about dogma, moreover it's Canon Law used to protect the Church's assets against potential claims from a Priest's heirs.

cindyabs

pity they didn't have some canonical law that would protect vicitims of some priests' special attentions.

Macca67

They do. It's called Denial!!

cindyabs

denial along with the encouraging use of a 50 pound weight dropped on yer bolloxs would fill the bill.

Macca67

Ouch!!!

cindyabs

That's the idea.

split like a rotten plum.

Bluegrass Lass

oooh.. cringing at that visualization...but they do deserve don't they.

Macca67

Hahah! That will keep your voiced high-pitched

cindyabs

and hopefully keep your mind on heaven.

Optimus Prime

[QUOTE=Macca67;7615954]Good pick up on the Curator. The 'credible facts' are those irrefutables beyond disagreement i.e.

Existence as a living diety or as a mortal man? I can't see there being a shred of evidence to suggest he was a diety furthermore given that his name today "Jesus Christ" basically means "Messiah Messiah" (Jesus being a Hebrew deritive of messiah just as Christ is in Greek) and his real name is thought to have been Yehoshua Ben Joseph. The writings you name all list Christ with different names that have been translated into Jesus Christ from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English.

The actual story of a humble shepherd, stoneworker leading his people out of bondage mentally or spiritually and then being put to death and resurrecting isn't new. There are such stories dating back centuries before Christ claiming this. So, I am less likely to believe it all happened to Christ when it is more likely that its a fairytale that has just transcended another religion. Just as most Christian festivals celebrated today are well known Pagan ceremonies hi jacked to turn free thinking pagans into following a self serving church.

Therefore as we know that the name "Jesus Christ" only means Messiah and that the story of his life is a carbon copy of stories of others from centuries before his existence, how can we truly be sure his story has the slightest element of truth to it? Especially as it doesn't give us his real name.

Yes, but her Gospel and that of Thomas contradict so much of the "Offical Gospels = Bible". Also, so many of the official Gospels contradict each other. How much strength can there be in a Holy book that is supposed to be the word of God, that was hand picked by a pagan emporer of Rome that was trying to salvage as much as possible from a failing military empire. I will agree it was a stroke of genius, it's kept people hooked for centuries and some even defend it today with overwhelming evidence to prove it was manufactured to serve a purpose for Rome.



The order is reputed to still be in existence today, hence my reading HB/HG and The Hiram Key amonst others. I don't know a great deal about the Merovingians/Magdelene sideline, all I was interested in was the KT and the story of their find under the temple and it's connection to Roslyn Chapel etc. All the bloodline of Christ was a sideline I'd look at later. Of course when I say the KY are reputed to still be in existence today I mean in secret and not a bunch of middle aged overweight Americans meeting once a week in a village hall wearing moose heads. I mean the REAL KT buried somewhere deep within Freemasonry's many degrees.


It's not unlike a Frenchman to be deceitful. In 1939 they said they would fight.

I didn't see that as their cheif source at all. I saw it as a source that led to many others. However, some of these other sources may well have been found via other routes. Can you be so sure that, while the whole Dossiers secrets was/is/maybe a fake, but that it was manufactured to led to genuine secrets because there was no other route or that another route may have revealed too much to the people reputed to be enemies of the PoS etc. I.E The Catholic Church and especially Opus Dei.
My view is that if they had/have found a genuine link to the bloodline of Christ then it could in no way whatsoever be compared to Watergate, it would be an Earth shattering event with astronomical consequences impossible to imagine.

MrEmjoy

This is from holysmoke, Im too tired to write it in my own words:

Consider the following list. These are the historians and writers who DID live within Christ's alleged lifetime or within a hundred years of it, after the time:

Apollonius Persius
Appian Petronius
Arrian Phaedrus
Aulus Gellius Philo-Judaeus
Columella Phlegon
Damis Pliny the Elder
Dio Chrysostom Pliny the Younger
Dion Pruseus Plutarch
Epictetus Pompon Mela
Favorinus Ptolemy
Florus Lucius Quintilian
Hermogones Quintius Curtius
Josephus Seneca
Justus of Tiberius Silius Italicus
Juvenal Statius
Lucanus Suetonius
Lucian Tacitus
Lysias Theon of Smyran
Martial Valerius Flaccus
Paterculus Valerius Maximus
Pausanias
Yet, aside from two FORGED passages in the works of a Jewish writer mentioned above, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there isn't ANY mention of Jesus Christ. At all.

http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/jesus5.htm

tamms_1965

[QUOTE=Optimus Prime;7620000]
I agree 100%. I've always believed that the whole God/Jesus/Bible "thing" was a way to keep the masses under control. As a child of the 60s born to what I call "country hippies," I was never forced to believe anything or go to church, etc. I was left to make up my own mind as I grew up (although I joined the Catholic church after marrying my first husband, but left it by the time my kids were in high school).You have written an intelligent argument much better than I ever could (I am not being sarcastic either).

Macca67

Emjoy. I beg to differ. What about:

Tacitus (55 - 120 A.D.)

A Roman historian who lived through the reigns of over half a dozen Roman emperors. Considered one of the greatest historians of ancient Rome,
Tacitus verifies the Biblical account of Jesus' execution at the hands of Pontius Pilate who governed Judea from 26-36 A.D. during the reign of Tiberius.

"Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the
reign of Tiberius." Annals XV, 44

Josephus 1st Century AD - Testimonium Flavianum
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure.... and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Pliny the Younger, the provincial governor of Pontus and Bithynia, writing to Emperor Trajan c. 112 AD
Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ — none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do — these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.

Suetonius c. 90 AD
“As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he Claudius expelled them from Rome.”

Macca67

[QUOTE=Optimus Prime;7620000] All valid points Optimus, except the slight on the French!!!

I don't want to get into a debate on the merits of Christianity, moreover my issue is with the validity and accuracy of the arguments of HB/HG, and our initial discussion on did Brown steal Baigent et al's work?

So, notwithstanding any of this my one question would be if the bloodline is still in existence, then why not step forward?

BTW, you probably know of this site, where you can view the original 1970's BBC documentaries, but if not:

http://www.rlcresearch.com

Optimus Prime

All slights on anything French are not only acceptible...but to be positively encouraged.
You seem convinced to debunk anything of their research solely on the grounds of the Dossiers secrets. To be 100% fair it is possible to debunk virtually anything and the catholic church are still debunking the findings of Darwin and the Origin of Species etc. I prefer to keep an open mind on everything. Are you 100% positive that Christ's crucifixion was a physical event and not a metaphor for his polital death and that he lived longer than the 30 odd years reputed? Surely if he were a man (not a diety remember) then he must've tasted the pleasures of the flesh during his life. Furthermore, as the catholic church so much want to preserve his divinity and have had Mary Magdelene labelled a prostitute (which it is equally proven she was not) why could'nt she have born him a child...or two? All I see is the papcy deny new allegations and stick strictly to their own dogma which has been proven to have been manufactured and self serving...and NOT the truth.
If you were the leading decendent of JC and the secret of his bloodline had been kept undisclosed for centuries then I am pretty sure you would'nt even know you were a decendent for starters. Secondly, what purpose would it serve today to step forward? The Catholic Church would be proven to have been liars and I wouldn't put it passed them to have any decendent of JC meet a nasty "accident" etc. Is the world ready for a new Messiah (America already thinks it has one)? I can't answer that question and I don't think anyone can...save those that might have access to a decendent and only they could answer.
Yes have watched them a few times but thanks for the link.




You'll forgive me for being suspicious but why do you want to concentrate on debunking HB/HG and not on the merits of Christianity? I get the impression your faith is important to you and therefore anything that threatens it's origins must be poo poo'd. You're not a religous Ostrich are you?