DayPerson

The council have said that because we said we have a house in France, we are liable to pay all mums care costs. Is this correct? The house will not sell easily and we do not have the funds so I do not see why we should have to pay now and if we have to self fund, we will be out of money in a few years.

We cannot claim benefits due to being out of the UK either.

Oh I wish I hadn't left France now, we should have just left her in the care home there.

spouse of scouse

I don't know a lot about benefits and care costs, but I didn't think that a care recipient's children were liable for the cost of their care? Also, I think you returned to the UK in May, I'd have thought you/your husband would be eligible for most benefits by now? Hopefully someone who knows about these things will be along to help.

I think you'd get more answers if you reposted your questions in the main Moving Back to the UK forum. Best of luck, I hope you can get it sorted.

quiltman

Is the French house in your Mums name? If so then yes the council can determine she is self funding as the rules say assets or cash over the limit. £16,000 is it now? The rules do not refer to UK assets only , just assets,typical legalese loopholes!
If the house is in joint names then it becomes complicated - I'd talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau in the first instance , or Age Concern , as they are both experienced in the UK care system funding "problems". The council will look for anything they can use to determine they don't have to pay! It is a minefield.
I do know that a council can put a charge on a persons property and get paid when they die and the property is then sold off. The biggest problem with the council paying towards care is the amount they will fund. This often means the person concerned ends up in a different home to the one they , or you, may have preferred.
If as SoS says, if you have been back in UK for more than 3 months then you should be entitled to claim any appropriate benefits , but these do not include carers allowance if Mum is in a home.
I hope you get it sorted as I appreciate your worries - we had similar problems with Father in Law, but his property was in UK and he had enough cash savings, together with his pensions to self fund for a few years before we would have had to sell the house. Never were the children asked to contribute. If he had had no property etc then the homes he could have gone to were very limited and not very pleasant , but at least he spent his final couple of years in relative comfort .

DayPerson

Last night my dad and I were seriously talking about moving back to France. The situation is a joke for people from Europe returning to the UK.

We have been back 4 months, got no benefits and been told we have to wait 2 years or I can do jobseekers at 16h a week while still looking after mum (which will never happen, who wants to employ a full time carer).

How can the council take a house which hasn't been sold as a liquid asset? Even if it does get sold quickly, we'd be lucky to get £100k which wouldn't buy us a rabbit hutch in the UK.

At least the DWP have taken into account the little we have in savings and appreciate the house is a liquid asset we don't have access to the funds from yet.

The council sent a letter asking if it is on the market, well we moved suddenly and dad has been with me looking after my very poorly mum rather than selling the house and clearing it.

The house in France is in joint names.

Dad is now threatening to stop the carers as he says they have decided we have to pay. We are lucky we have not had many hours and got thousands of pounds to pay. Without any benefits, we have enough money for 2 years then we will be skint and we are in catch 22, cannot earn if we have to look after mum 24/7 but cannot get carers or attendance allowance.

feelbritish

One thing to think about about is that the council is not "funding" but the taxpayer. We are retired and have planned to use our savings and our house to be sold eventually to fund our care. The kids know this and were told not to expect any inheritence unless we drop dead suddenly together! Benefits are for those who have nothing. Sometimes it is not fair to think that those who saved and were responsible have to pay while those seniors who never saved and splashed out all their lives get help but as was said above they have to accept what accommodation the council gives them. Why not sell the house in France and buy a small 1 bed retirement flat in UK for both of them and then start from there. They can then claim all the benefits they are entitled to.

quiltman

Sorry, I did not realise your Dad was still alive. This would change things in the UK if he was still living in the property and it was in his name or his and his wifes names. If he was living in the property then the council cannot force a sale and can only put a charge on half the value of the house if in joint names. (went through all this investigation with FIL!) In your case , unfortunately he is living back in the UK so it would appear there is no reason not to sell the French property to fund his care - well, so far as the council are concerned.
Have the council been and done a means assessment for your Mum? They did for FIL and said "He's worth too much so he'll have to pay until his assets reduce"! Initially he had carers 3 times a day and had to pay for those as well - blooming useless they were, never stopped longer than 10 minutes and were supposed to get him up and dressed, fed and watered and put to bed at night. After a few months of this we had long discussion with him and he accepted he had to go into a home , which he did quite happily although with his dementia he was convinced it was a hotel and the family were paying his bills...........

I don't know if this is of any help https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/be...ision-is-made/ There are some useful links on this page. It does say , towards the bottom that usually it's 3 months to meet the Habitual Resident terms. I do suggest going to your local CAB and chat to them.

DayPerson

Mum was released from hospital without care today and I think we're heading back to France. As I said to the OT, how can I jobsearch and look after mum and we are banned from any benefits for 2 years so we are in an impossible situation and mum in a French car e home where she cannot speak the langauge is the only option.

Dad is fuming and just wants to return as he knows the house will not sell. Our neighbour tried two years ago and could not sell and the market has got worse not better.

I would have thought they would have done a habitual resident test. DWP and DVLA are being equally stubbon re my driving application and dads pension credit application, adding to our stress.

quiltman

Oh dear! so sorry to hear of this. Based on my reading of the citizens advice info you meet the HRT. Maybe because you still have the French property the various agencies are not satisfied you intend to remain in the UK? That's all I can think of. Try enlisting your local MPs help as they can often at least get more info out of the agencies.
were you renting in the UK? If so how long is the lease? did you get onto the electoral register? All these are pointers towards Habitual Residence.

Pulaski

I think it is telling that "we" have a house, yet it appears to belong to the parents.

Somehow a twisted logic has become popular in the UK, that "the government" should pay for care of elderly parents, so that the children can inherit "their" house. .... "The government" only has money it raises in taxes, so what people really mean is that "everyone else should pay for the care of my parents, so I can inherit my parents' house."

quiltman

Good point Pulaski. I was only concerned with the situation as it stands. When, or if, his Dad has to go into care then the council can insist he sells the house , or put a charge on it to be repaid when it is finally sold. I know it appears very unfair that folks on benefits have no problem getting care paid for - albeit at the rate the council will pay, thus limiting the care home options - whereas those of us who worked and saved all our lives have to effectively give it all up. There has been talk of a government backed insurance scheme to pay for care in old age but so far it has not got anywhere. I can't imagine a 25yr old wanting to pay a few pounds a month , just in case he/she needs care 45 years down the line! As you say , the "we own a house" indicates that the OP has a share in it , if so this is discounted in working out what amount of self funding is necessary.

DayPerson

We had registered with doctors, dentist etc, I am on the electoral role, need to fill in paperwork with the new address on it.

It has certainly made my dad question whether the UK is the right place for mum to be and I am sure in 2018 we'll be back in France rather than here even though they refused to treat her so we are caught between a rock and a hard place.

scot47

I am not clear if the house belongs to the posters or to her parents.

DayPerson

House belongs to mum and dad, I am the daughter and mums full time carer

mikelincs

When we moved back to the UK in 2008 we were applying for council tax benefit, and as part of that application we had to sign a legal document to say we didn't own any property in either the UK or Spain, had we been unable to do that we would have received no benefits at all, so the fact that property is owned in France, and the person applying for benefits is a part owner then it's highly likely that the benefit would be denied while the property was still partly in their name.

Jerseygirl

Thanks for clearing that up. The title of the thread is confusing. The 'we' suggests it's you and your parent's house...when in fact it should be 'do they have to sell house in France'.

Edit: I have changed the title of the thread.