British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Hi All, hope you are all well and keeping safe
Looking to move back to the UK from Canada to retire in a few years, UK citizens, so shouldn't be an issues, just wondering if there are any pitfalls to watch out for, keep hearing deemed disposition banded about, and what are the tax implications of selling up in Canada and Buying property in the UK, also drawing on Canada based pensions or transfering funds to UK based pensions. any advice will be greatly received . |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by peterroulston
(Post 12978149)
Hi All, hope you are all well and keeping safe
Looking to move back to the UK from Canada to retire in a few years, UK citizens, so shouldn't be an issues, just wondering if there are any pitfalls to watch out for, keep hearing deemed disposition banded about, and what are the tax implications of selling up in Canada and Buying property in the UK, also drawing on Canada based pensions or transfering funds to UK based pensions. any advice will be greatly received . 1) Health care is available the moment you land in the UK. 2) The Transfer of Residence (TOR) form to get your worldly goods into the UK is a pain, it has to be completed and signed by you submitted to the UK customs and approved before you leave. 3) If you have older children intending to have further education further education age they will not be considered as "ordinary residents' of the UK for 3 years after you land and will have to pay 'Foreign Student' rates which is virtually double what a UK student would pay. 4) You wont be considered a 'Tax Resident' in the UK until 6 months after you have arrived. This doesn't sound to much of an issue unless you buy a property in the first 6 months and will have to pay additional stamp duty. This can be refunded after you become a tax residence. 5) You can keep Canadian Registered Savings plans open but withdrawals will be subject to a 25% withholding tax in Canada. Cash in your Canadian TFSA before you go which would be subject to UK tax. 6) Not too sure on the pension side of things though - still researching that one. 7) You do not pay tax with the sale of your primary residence in Canada (not yet anyway). Thats some of the issues I have found during my research with regard to moving back to the UK. If anyone else who has done this, if I am incorrect or missed anything please let me know, it would be much appreciated. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Hi
Originally Posted by getoutofbritainquick
(Post 12985753)
We are retiring back to the UK next year. We currently live on then outskirts of Victoria and have 2 children aged 17 and 20 who will be coming with us. Returning to the UK is not as easy when we left the UK for Canada.
1) Health care is available the moment you land in the UK. 2) The Transfer of Residence (TOR) form to get your worldly goods into the UK is a pain, it has to be completed and signed by you submitted to the UK customs and approved before you leave. 3) If you have older children intending to have further education further education age they will not be considered as "ordinary residents' of the UK for 3 years after you land and will have to pay 'Foreign Student' rates which is virtually double what a UK student would pay. 4) You wont be considered a 'Tax Resident' in the UK until 6 months after you have arrived. This doesn't sound to much of an issue unless you buy a property in the first 6 months and will have to pay additional stamp duty. This can be refunded after you become a tax residence. 5) You can keep Canadian Registered Savings plans open but withdrawals will be subject to a 25% withholding tax in Canada. Cash in your Canadian TFSA before you go which would be subject to UK tax. 6) Not too sure on the pension side of things though - still researching that one. 7) You do not pay tax with the sale of your primary residence in Canada (not yet anyway). Thats some of the issues I have found during my research with regard to moving back to the UK. If anyone else who has done this, if I am incorrect or missed anything please let me know, it would be much appreciated. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Thanks Sparky, some helpful info, trying to get a transfer with my Job, not sure if this will help any, good luck.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Thanks again, saw this already, we've only been in Canada since 09, so 11 years, so at least well get our CPP, When you say Canadian registered savings plan, thats not the regular RSP/RIF, but the government run ones that are stopping paying interest at the end of the year?
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by PMM
(Post 12986070)
Hi
1. Note that you need 20 years of residency after the age of 18 to have your Canada OAS paid abroad unless the UK has a social security agreement with Canada. Something to consider with 20 years in Canada you would be entitled to about $307 per month for life. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by PMM
(Post 12986070)
Hi
1. Note that you need 20 years of residency after the age of 18 to have your Canada OAS paid abroad unless the UK has a social security agreement with Canada. Something to consider with 20 years in Canada you would be entitled to about $307 per month for life. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
You can catch up with UK National Insurance Coontributions for the years you were awy. Class 2 is best. I think the max is 7 years
Main benefit is that you will become entitled to a basic Stae Retirmenet Pension when you retire. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Thanks. I have been paying into my British Pension and do receive it in Canada. Those payments will go up when I receive it in the UK. I am concerned though as to whether I will be paying more tax on my income in the UK than Canada.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by Diane Rowe
(Post 12988323)
Thanks. I have been paying into my British Pension and do receive it in Canada. Those payments will go up when I receive it in the UK. I am concerned though as to whether I will be paying more tax on my income in the UK than Canada.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/ I don’t know how healthcare works in Canada but remember that you will not be paying anything for doctor and hospital visits in the UK. Over age 60 and things like prescriptions and eye tests are also free. Free bus pass also for those receiving their British State pension (OAP) - just got mine this year, works great. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Thank you. Healthcare for the most part is free in Canada. I am covered for extras -physiotherapist, the dentist by a plan from work but I will lose that if I leave Canada for more than 6 months.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by Diane Rowe
(Post 12988323)
Thanks. I have been paying into my British Pension and do receive it in Canada. Those payments will go up when I receive it in the UK. I am concerned though as to whether I will be paying more tax on my income in the UK than Canada.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by scot47
(Post 12988267)
You can catch up with UK National Insurance Coontributions for the years you were awy. Class 2 is best. I think the max is 7 years
Main benefit is that you will become entitled to a basic Stae Retirmenet Pension when you retire. We are bringing our plans to return to the UK forward and will be putting our property on the market asap for a number of reasons, but mainly due to the current hot property market here in Victoria. The UK seems to be doing far better than Canada with the vaccine roll out. My wife and daughter have received their first vaccine being front line health care workers but my son and I will be lucky to get the vaccine by the Fall. This has been a really tough decision for us because our son is just completing grade 11 and we had hoped for him to complete grade 12 before we returned to the UK. We had to weigh up the risks of moving back now or waiting another year. The property market is currently insane in Victoria and starting to overheat, with the UK getting its economy firing again I think there is there is a real financial risk with exchange rates. There are also a few other major concerns with waiting until next year so we have decided to go this year all being well. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Yes it is a tough decision. I own a house in Toronto so if I sell I won’t be able to come back and buy another one if I change my mind. Your children will have a better chance of buying property in England than they would if they stayed here.
I don’t want to move during a pandemic though |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by getoutofbritainquick
(Post 12985753)
We are retiring back to the UK next year. We currently live on then outskirts of Victoria and have 2 children aged 17 and 20 who will be coming with us. Returning to the UK is not as easy when we left the UK for Canada.
1) Health care is available the moment you land in the UK. 2) The Transfer of Residence (TOR) form to get your worldly goods into the UK is a pain, it has to be completed and signed by you submitted to the UK customs and approved before you leave. 3) If you have older children intending to have further education further education age they will not be considered as "ordinary residents' of the UK for 3 years after you land and will have to pay 'Foreign Student' rates which is virtually double what a UK student would pay. 4) You wont be considered a 'Tax Resident' in the UK until 6 months after you have arrived. This doesn't sound to much of an issue unless you buy a property in the first 6 months and will have to pay additional stamp duty. This can be refunded after you become a tax residence. 5) You can keep Canadian Registered Savings plans open but withdrawals will be subject to a 25% withholding tax in Canada. Cash in your Canadian TFSA before you go which would be subject to UK tax. 6) Not too sure on the pension side of things though - still researching that one. 7) You do not pay tax with the sale of your primary residence in Canada (not yet anyway). Thats some of the issues I have found during my research with regard to moving back to the UK. If anyone else who has done this, if I am incorrect or missed anything please let me know, it would be much appreciated. Regarding this point: 5) You can keep Canadian Registered Savings plans open but withdrawals will be subject to a 25% withholding tax in Canada. Cash in your Canadian TFSA before you go which would be subject to UK tax.While I am not a tax expert, my understanding it We plan to keep both our RRSPs in Canada. They continue to grow tax free (in Canada) but there is no longer any contribution room. We will be converting our RRSPs to RRIFs after age 65 and receiving the minimum monthly amount which should be considered a "periodic payment" and not subject to any Canadian withholding taxes. These monthly payments will be considered as income at the UK end. (see https://taxca.com/blog-2016-35/ ) or HERE for the Gov of Canada source (TIP: search the page for "United Kingdom" to find the info more quickly. It should also answer your query regarding point #6, We have already converted our TFSAs to cash given the rise in the markets. This money will be transferred to the UK and invested in a Stock & Shares ISA to grow tax free in the UK. The UK ISA annual limit is £20,000 ($34,000) compared with Canada's £3,500 ($6,000) yearly TFSA limit. Hope this helps |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by MrCheeky
(Post 12993307)
My wife and I will be retiring to the UK next year as well. It's been exciting and stressful at the same time planning everything. Our house is sold and are now renting until the move. Couldn't resist selling in this inflated market and as you say, who knows what tax implication there will be in the future?
Regarding this point: 5) You can keep Canadian Registered Savings plans open but withdrawals will be subject to a 25% withholding tax in Canada. Cash in your Canadian TFSA before you go which would be subject to UK tax.While I am not a tax expert, my understanding it We plan to keep both our RRSPs in Canada. They continue to grow tax free (in Canada) but there is no longer any contribution room. We will be converting our RRSPs to RRIFs after age 65 and receiving the minimum monthly amount which should be considered a "periodic payment" and not subject to any Canadian withholding taxes. These monthly payments will be considered as income at the UK end. (see https://taxca.com/blog-2016-35/ ) or HERE for the Gov of Canada source (TIP: search the page for "United Kingdom" to find the info more quickly. It should also answer your query regarding point #6, We have already converted our TFSAs to cash given the rise in the markets. This money will be transferred to the UK and invested in a Stock & Shares ISA to grow tax free in the UK. The UK ISA annual limit is £20,000 ($34,000) compared with Canada's £3,500 ($6,000) yearly TFSA limit. Hope this helps Just to confirm my understanding. For registered pensions payments from Canada we will not have to pay tax in Canada but will at our marginal rate in the UK? https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...#_Toc301246865 We plan to cash in our TFSA before we go. We intend to keep our RRSP's for the foreseeable future. Boy it's stressful but we are really looking forward to returning home. We hope to put our property on the market in early May - we have been delayed for a couple of weeks because we are all self isolating. My son contracted COVID at school. I have been looking at removal companies and are getting a quote from Crown. Initial estimates from Vancouver Island to Plymouth, UK is $10-14k for a 20ft container and some between $16-23k for a 40ft. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by getoutofbritainquick
(Post 12993317)
Thanks for the response.
Just to confirm my understanding. For registered pensions payments from Canada we will not have to pay tax in Canada but will at our marginal rate in the UK? https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...#_Toc301246865
Originally Posted by getoutofbritainquick
(Post 12993317)
I have been looking at removal companies and are getting a quote from Crown. Initial estimates from Vancouver Island to Plymouth, UK is $10-14k for a 20ft container and some between $16-23k for a 40ft.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Thanks for the Movecube suggestion. I will most likely sell my house in Toronto. Rent in Buxton in the Uk for 6 months. Then move a minimal amount of possessions if I want to stay in the UK.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by getoutofbritainquick
(Post 12988872)
Totally, I sent the forms for my wife and I back in January to pay voluntary contributions but not heard anything as yet. I also requested a current statement of NI contribution years for us both online. I received the notification receiving my request, but again no further correspondence. Not sure if this has something to do with delays caused by COVID but I thought we would have heard something by now.
We are bringing our plans to return to the UK forward and will be putting our property on the market asap for a number of reasons, but mainly due to the current hot property market here in Victoria. The UK seems to be doing far better than Canada with the vaccine roll out. My wife and daughter have received their first vaccine being front line health care workers but my son and I will be lucky to get the vaccine by the Fall. This has been a really tough decision for us because our son is just completing grade 11 and we had hoped for him to complete grade 12 before we returned to the UK. We had to weigh up the risks of moving back now or waiting another year. The property market is currently insane in Victoria and starting to overheat, with the UK getting its economy firing again I think there is there is a real financial risk with exchange rates. There are also a few other major concerns with waiting until next year so we have decided to go this year all being well. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by Benson55
(Post 12996238)
It takes DWP in the Uk about six months to initiate the request for AVC's once its in the system then they remind you each year.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
You can set up a direct debit for ACV's so you don't have to go through an annual process, and cancel it in x years when you have sufficient contributions for a full pension.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by tdrinker
(Post 12998776)
You can set up a direct debit for ACV's so you don't have to go through an annual process, and cancel it in x years when you have sufficient contributions for a full pension.
I started drawing my OAP this year and my wife will start drawing hers in November. Since we both will be claiming US SS then the question of WEP comes into play. The amount of OAP applied to WEP depends on the number of years NI contributions are made as a result of paid employment. If you log onto your HMRC account and navigate to the State Pension you can get a list of your NI contributions by year and save this as a PDF as it shows quite clearly the source of each year's contribution. The folks at the Federal Benefits Unit at the US Embassy told me that when we apply for SS we should have that data on hand. I just saved a PDF copy of my wife's record as she will be applying for SS this year. Her record shows 15 years of voluntary contributions, 6 years from being a stay-at-home parent of a child under school age and 9 years of contributions from paid employment. So for the purposes of the WEP calculation her OAP from employment will be £176.60 * 9/35 per week. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Hi Durham Lad,
Can you not get a bus pass if you don't get British pension? Thanks |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by durham_lad
(Post 12988351)
You can estimate your taxes with this calculator
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/ I don’t know how healthcare works in Canada but remember that you will not be paying anything for doctor and hospital visits in the UK. Over age 60 and things like prescriptions and eye tests are also free. Free bus pass also for those receiving their British State pension (OAP) - just got mine this year, works great. Can you not get a bus pass if you don't get British pension? Thanks |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by countrygirl33
(Post 13000923)
Hi Durham Lad,
Can you not get a bus pass if you don't get British pension? Thanks |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
If you live in a London borough, at age 60 you get free transport on buses, trains, trams & tube across London, including the few tube stations that extend beyond London's border. At retirement age do you get the pass that also includes free national bus travel.
The 60+ free London transport travel is incredibly generous. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by tdrinker
(Post 13001085)
If you live in a London borough, at age 60 you get free transport on buses, trains, trams & tube across London, including the few tube stations that extend beyond London's border. At retirement age do you get the pass that also includes free national bus travel.
The 60+ free London transport travel is incredibly generous. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
My understanding is that everyone can get a bus pass that works nationally from retirement age. I wasn't aware of / had forgotten about the senior railcard - given the cost of train tickets, it could be very worthwhile.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by tdrinker
(Post 13001110)
My understanding is that everyone can get a bus pass that works nationally from retirement age. I wasn't aware of / had forgotten about the senior railcard - given the cost of train tickets, it could be very worthwhile.
I think I’m right in saying that the bus pass gives you free bus travel anywhere in England, if you live in England. Not in Scotland, as their scheme is separate. I think a bus pass (for someone who lives in England, outside London) works on some London buses but not others. Complicated. Also, you can supposedly associate it online with your Oystercard, to give cheaper tube travel. I tried to do that but didn’t succeed. (I believe more people now simply use their debit cards to travel on the tube, rather than hold an Oystercard.) |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
What proof do you need to get a bus pass or a rail card. I am planning to move back to the UK around Christmas. I will be renting for 6 months. Also I need to request that
my British Pension be paid to me in the UK and not into my bank in Canada. Should I call them ahead of time and give them a contact address. Thanks. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by Diane Rowe
(Post 13001220)
What proof do you need to get a bus pass or a rail card. I am planning to move back to the UK around Christmas. I will be renting for 6 months. Also I need to request that
my British Pension be paid to me in the UK and not into my bank in Canada. Should I call them ahead of time and give them a contact address. Thanks. It has been 3 years since I applied for a senior rail pass so I don’t recall but would expect it to be the driving licence again. I think the application was all online, and we chose to download the pass to our phones rather than have a physical card. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Thanks. I won’t have a British driving license. Maybe I can use my passport.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by Diane Rowe
(Post 13001225)
Thanks. I won’t have a British driving license. Maybe I can use my passport.
Just checked, and even with a driving licence you need to provide proof of residence. From our County website. You will be required to create an account and include proof that you are of pensionable age (birth certificate or driving licence) and that you are resident (e.g. utility bill or council tax bill) and include a digital photograph. The relevant evidence will need to be added using either a photograph or a PDF document. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by robin1234
(Post 13001193)
train from Norwich to Liverpool, return, full price would have been about £95
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by tdrinker
(Post 13001304)
Train fares are far too high, especially when trying to encourage train usage vs. cars for environmental reasons. Advance fares can be cheaper, but means taking a chance on the weather. And not being spontaneous.
Anyway, paying just two-thirds the price with the senior rail card makes most ticket prices seem very reasonable. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Ref. Moving companies I am getting quotes from Tippet Richardson and Orbit. I couldn’t find Move Cube in Toronto. Any advice?
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by getoutofbritainquick
(Post 12998763)
They did say it would take some time. Thanks for the heads up.
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Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by peterroulston
(Post 12978149)
Hi All, hope you are all well and keeping safe
Looking to move back to the UK from Canada to retire in a few years, UK citizens, so shouldn't be an issues, just wondering if there are any pitfalls to watch out for, keep hearing deemed disposition banded about, and what are the tax implications of selling up in Canada and Buying property in the UK, also drawing on Canada based pensions or transfering funds to UK based pensions. any advice will be greatly received . We had to spend a small fortune on COVID tests, 1 to fly, day 2 & 8 and early release at day 5 for the 10 day quarantine period, cost around $1500! Arranged pet transport for the cat at a cost of nearly $4k, container $24k and realtor fees of $60k! Definitely not cheap to sell property and move countries! We upgraded our return flight to the UK with Air Canada as a treat and fly on the 18th July. Tons and tons of paperwork to complete and things to sell. This is making time go by very fast. |
Re: British citizens moving back to UK from Canada to retire
Originally Posted by PMM
(Post 12986070)
Hi
1. Note that you need 20 years of residency after the age of 18 to have your Canada OAS paid abroad unless the UK has a social security agreement with Canada. Something to consider with 20 years in Canada you would be entitled to about $307 per month for life. The 20yr thing suprised me a strange clause you can check online cpp etc https://www.canada.ca/en/services/be...it/amount.html 15yrs in canada can give $500 at 65 cheers jerry |
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