dollface

I will be returning to the UK after 13 years away, with my husband and 2 kids, and if I'm entitled to child benefit, I will collect it.

SanDiegogirl

Not referring to your own personal situation, but many people think they are 'entitled' to benefits whereas what they should be are 'eligible'.

Being provided with monies/resources etc from public funds should never be an entitlement. As part of a society one should be prepared to contribute to the society which then makes one eligible for public funds.

As you said earlier, why should hard working tax payers be providing money/resources not only to actual fraudsters but also those who contribute nothing by either never working or taking advantage of benefits as soon as they enter the country?

dollface

I feel at ease with it as I contributed, as did my husband for 18 years before we left UK and never claimed a penny from anywhere.

BristolUK

It makes me think what's the problem?

A little assistance while someone finds their feet. Maybe those people will actually avoid some problems that might actually cost the UK more than those benefits. With a little support they might be a very productive family - four potentail taxpayers.



Entitlement is fair. It's equal providing certain conditions are met. Eligibility generally means someone gets something while others in the same situation might not for some arbitrary reason - such as they live in a different area or this month's budget has been used.

Defined entitlement is good.

killerhales

Agree with the more recent posters on this thread; I'm lucky enough to be returning to a good job, but if me or mine were to fall on harder times I would fight tooth and nail to ensure we received the help that our political representatives had decided was fair and appropriate.

Wub

It looks like we could be returning permanently this summer (at last!) after several years working overseas. We're lucky, as its something that's been planned for, saved hard for and therefore there's no need to claim anything from the state at all.

Our house is bought and paid for, enough savings to last for a year, the right qualifications/experience to hopefully find work on return after a well earned settling in period of a couple of months is the plan.

Yes, we're lucky.

But what if we weren't? Social security should mean just that. Whining about what you think other people should or shouldn't get is, in my opinion, missing the point.
The majority of returnees are good hearted, hard working people some of whom have fallen on hard times. Isn't that what our safety net is for? Demonising is just so passée.

kiwibrit101

I do not indeed mean to come over as sinister, merely an observation and if you read my initial post you will see that I also empathise with folk returning to get help. I have massive pride that the UK has a system in place to help people in need. I am from a family that suffered at the hands of Margaret Thatcher in a coal mining village in the north east so I have some idea of the need for the benefit system. I simply ask with world economics as they are, people returning and as the official figures show people leaving at an all time low.....I do wonder how it will end....

dollface

I too am not a fan of the "spongers" but if people are genuine and need a bit of assistance for a period of time then I also have no problem supporting that cause, financially, or otherwise.

kiwibrit101

Who said anything about spongers? I didn't even talk about the fraudulent aspect of benefit, it does not interest me. But one poster did raise an interesting point about eligibility and entitlement! Quite simply I guess what I am asking is ...Will there be enough to go around!

formula

The UK does remind me of a company going under at the moment: where they chase around for old debts to be paid to try to stop going under. In the UKs case, it's find the fraudsters and get them to pay their debts; giving medicals to those that claim to be too sick to work; raising the retirment age to 68; slashing welfare payments.

The UK only has so much in the pot from those that work and don't claim any welfare payments and these aren't the people we want to chase away to another country, so the government have/are reducing the welfare payments and will make claimants work for their welfare payments. The government have already offered this free labour to companies and trials have already taken place with shops like Poundland, where claimants stack shelves and mop floors for their welfare money. If they turn up late or don't do as they are told, then their benefit money is stopped.

When most of the income based welfare payments are moved onto the new Universal Credit, all claimants will have conditions put on them which they will have to comply with if they want to receive any welfare. From reading the Welfare Bill, these conditions seem to start when the youngest child is 1. Also talk of limiting the number of children that can be claimed for. Housing payments (all types) are being reduced; have a cap or even a time limit put on them.

It's going to be very tough for those Brits that come back broke to the UK and ask for help, but at least is better than starving in their adopted country.

Interestingly, I read a post on another board from a Dutch citizen who said they were thinking of moving to the UK as their government had reduced the welfare payments for rent, so I guess news of the UKs welfare cuts hasn't filtered through the EEA yet.

formula

With all these welfare cuts, spare a thought for people like this. This is Doreen's Story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA9t61PuiDc

dollface

Yeah it's done the rounds many times - Lazy Cow Syndrome.

dollface

The governement are barking up the wrong tree IMO. The Europeans coming to the country and immediately claim benefits should not be allowed. While they're at it, they need to make it clear that they have a points system, not unlike that of Canada or Australia etc whereby if they don't qualify, they don't get in. This should apply to ALL, union included - now I realise that goes totally against what the union is - they have opened the floodgates and now can't close them.

Yes, it's a major mess as a result of the Union, but as much as there is free access from country to country they now need to implement "rules" relating to residence and welfare. For example, when I came to Canada, my husband had to sponser me, I was not allowed to claim welfare for 10 years . Now I was fortunate enough not to require the assistance of the government.

I totally agree that fraudsters should be caught and the penalty paid. However, there are people who genuinely require assistance for a while, they are the folks the government should be helping, not people from other countries, who have never contributed to the country and may never contribute, but accept all the help going.

Beedubya

You should perhaps be more concerned about NON British born people and illegal immigrants flooding into this country than about your own British country men and women moving back to where they have every bloody right to live.

formula

I wouldn't wish that to happen: a lot of Brits who need welfare payments, will soon be better off if they moved to another EU country and claim from them.

Spain states that people (even those with a Spanish passport) have to have worked and paid into Spain for 6 years before they get access to full welfare payments, so perhaps it is time the UK followed suit if their welfare cuts and 'working for welfare' doesn't halt the tide of those entering the UK and immediatley claiming welfare.

There are very few jobs in the UK now and if Greece goes under, the UK will be in a lot of trouble. We loaned a lot of money to the French and they loaned a lot of money to Greece. France has already had it's rating downgraded.

We can't chase away our high rate tax payers with tax increases, so the welfare cuts will just have to go deeper and deeper. Which should have the knock on effect of less people wanting to come to the UK and rely on welfare as soon as they enter.

A lot of churches are already increasing their food parcels and the welfare cuts have only just started. This year will see the start of the housing welfare cuts and Disability being removed and the much tougher PIP coming in, then the next biggest welfare payment will be reduced - Child Tax Credits and Working Tax Credits.