Banking new to UK
 

Okay, so I'm not really "moving back" as I have never lived in the UK except for summers as a kid, but still, same idea...

What do I need to do to get a British bank account? I think I have the rest figured out paperwork wise (where to get NI number, etc) but opening a bank account seems to be a darn near impossible task when one first moves to the UK. So I have a few questions:

1. What bank is best overall for someone new to the UK?

2. What banks do not ask you to declare non-British citizenship (would like to not disclose my US citizenship, if possible)?

3. What banks, on the same note, will not refuse an account for someone with US citizenship (my understanding is that most banks ask and then refuse you an account if they find out you have US citizenship)?

4. Are there any banks other than HSBC (no HSBC where I live in the States) that actual prevent all this hassle and just let you open an account in the US and transfer it to the UK?

5. Anything else I need to know? I know for credit it's easy, just call American Express and done.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Can you explain more about the problem you think you have opening an account in the UK?

I don't see why you think having American citizenship is a problem or why you want to hide it. Do you also have British citizenship? If so, why do you think there is a problem?

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Why are you reticent to declare your US citizenship? Because of FATCA? I believe that all countries that have signed a FATCA type IGA with the US will ask on their account opening documentation to disclose all citizenships. They should have amended their documents by now as FATCA becomes active July 1 for new accounts. All financial institutions have to adhere to the regs so all should ask about your citizenships.

I don't believe there are any retail banks which have a presence in both countries for individuals except HSBC.

To open an account you need proof of identity and an address.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

My understanding is that, because of FATCA, the vast majority of banks in the world will no longer do business with American citizens, even if they have local citizenship. I have British citizenship, my fear is that I'll be denied a bank account everywhere I go in the UK because of having American citizenship.

To the best of my knowledge, only HSBC has no problem with American citizenship and then, only if you had an account with them in the States before you moved.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Try Citibank in the UK - as a US bank they won't have any issues with your US citizenship.

I think having a bank account is the least of your worries - what about investments in the UK which will need to be declared?; and you know you have to do US tax returns don't you?

Re: Banking new to UK
 

I'm a university student, I don't really have any meaningful worries about investments. There are none. I have a couple thousand dollars to my name each semester before then paying it in tuition. I'm planning to move the day I graduate (well, within a week) May 2015.

As for tax returns, yes, sadly I do. It's utterly ridiculous, I have no desire to stay in America, and I doubt I'll ever have a desire to return. Yet, I'm enslaved to a lifetime of spending many hours a year filing tax returns... it's insane.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Yes I heard that and that will be true of smaller financial institutions who don't have the capability to deal with the b*** and in turn, want to streamline their reporting. I believe at the moment there are major concerns in the banking community as the deadline approaches and no-one is ready. Hence this flashing red light - No USCs.
In the last few months the OECD have proposed global sharing of information so what was just an agreement with the US (FATCA) will now be rolled out as agreements with all the G20 countries. So banks will be forced to introduce the technology and reporting capability. This doesn't help you now I know in the short term but I am sure the major UK banks are not going to turn away business.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Do you think it'll help me by May 2015 when I plan to move?

Renouncing US citizenship is not an option as I have family in the States that I'll be leaving behind and want to be able to come visit.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

At the current time it appears all UK banks and building societies are accepting US citizens. There are some FI's who will not accept US citizens for investment accounts. This may be more to do with SEC regulations, and not FATCA.

At the moment, no one knows what may transpire prior to the start of the official FATCA reporting date of 1 July. Circumstances may change. In Switzerland, banks have been giving as little as 4 weeks notice.

Additionally, it is also unknown what paperwork the banks may require. Again, in Switzerland, banks are asking for the completion of a W-9, a signed statement releasing the bank from protecting the account holders privacy/data rights, and verification that an FBAR has been submitted. Again, this is in Switzerland where the IGA is a model 2 (the banks report directly to the IRS). The UK signed a Model 1, so the requirements of data transfer may be different. It's still too early to tell.

I know of one high street bank, and have heard of two other FFI's, who are already asking about nationality.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Thank you very much OAP. If it wasn't for not wanting to never be able to see my family again, I'd try my best to get hired with the British government to lose my US citizenship and not have to worry about this stuff. :)

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Unrelated to banking, however.

You will not be able to get car insurance as an American citizen in Britain. I don't know why. I don't write the insurance laws.

You will have to get car insurance from your American Car Insurance company to be insured to drive a car that you own in Britain.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Really? If you're going to make a statement like that as fact, a reference would be appreciated.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

The experience in Switzerland is not typical of other countries that have signed FATCA agreements. In Switzerland, there's firstly perhaps a cultural tendency to apply rules and regulations quite literally, and secondly many of the Swiss banks have already been targeted by the U.S. authorities for their role in facilitating U.S. tax evasion. Also, the Swiss agreement on FATCA is Model 2, which means that banks have to report directly to the IRS, which is much more difficult to do than report to local tax authorities.

In the U.K., banks already report to HMRC and anything additional for FATCA purposes is not going to be significant. U.K. banks have known about FATCA for a few years, and the U.K. was one of the first to sign a FATCA agreement with the United States. Although banks have changed their terms and conditions to allow reporting to foreign tax authorities, there is no sign that they are refusing to deal with U.S. citizens. It may be a minority view, but perhaps if U.K. banks were going to start refusing to deal with locally resident U.S. citizens, they would have done so before now.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

The OP is British as well as American.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

When I worked in Britain there were Americans in the office who could not get car insurance because they were American citizens. They had to put up with the frustration and expense of getting car insurance from their American car insurance companies to drive the car/s they had purchased in Britain.

That's how I know.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Except that most American insurance companies will not quote for business outside the United States. Firstly, they don't usually have a license to operate in other countries, and secondly, they have no experience of the local market where risks will differ from the United States.

Really - this sounds like hearsay, anecdote etc. There is absolutely no reason why a United States citizen resident in the United Kingdom, especially with a British drivers license, should not be able to get car insurance locally.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

I am not planning to drive at first, I hate driving and one of the benefits of moving to a large city is the excellent public transport infrastructure. I'm sure, eventually, I'll end up driving, much as I hate the though of it. Still, the idea insurance would be denied to me on the basis of US citizenship is appalling.

I think THAT is the point I would march down to the US embassy and hand over my passport.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Strong recommendation. If you are going to use forums for information, you need to be discerning and and learn to distinguish genuine information from anecdote/hearsay (which often then develops into myth/scaremongering etc). One strategy is seek to verify everything yourself.

The insurance story - if that was really true, wouldn't we have heard about it from more sources before now?

What is true, however, is that as a newcomer to the United Kingdom without an established history, your insurance will probably cost more than it would otherwise do. Also, if you are taking up residence, you may want to consider getting a British drivers licence as soon as possible. You will likely need to do the driving test but that may be easier (in terms of logistics) if you can still use your U.S. licence to drive instead of getting a provisional (learner) licence in Britain. Obviously, if you do drive on your U.S. license, you need insurance unless it's already provided such as in a rental car.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

That's a really good point, it'll be much easier to get it within the first year even if I don't plan to use it, than it'll be to go through the whole process later on. Can one take the test in a rental car? If so I may just rent a car for a week (so I have time to practice with the differences) and take the exam so I have a licence.

Question, though - is it even possible to rent a standard transmission car? I know the test has to be taken in a standard, and I know in the US (at least where I live) it isn't (I've had to rent a car several times when people have hit me - I have bad luck, I've never been at fault. Heck, last time I was legally parked and got out from my shopping - someone ran right into my parked car in the lot!). I've asked for a standard (I hate driving automatic, I actually find it harder oddly enough) and they've told me each time they don't rent standards, only automatics. I'm not sure if this is the case in other countries or not. I've never had a desire to rent a car on holiday. The point of holiday is to get AWAY from the miserable stresses of daily life, driving being the biggest.

Oddly, I consider myself an excellent driver. I've asked British relatives when visiting here to tell me honestly if they thought I could pass a British driver exam if I need to, and they have all told me "first time, you'll do great, you're a great driver - just make sure you know the rules well and do everything exactly how they expect" or something close to that at least. I just hate driving. It's expensive, tiring, and boring.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

I have told the truth. It's not an anecdote.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

I don't know if you can take a British Driving test in a rental car. Surely you would use the driving school's car that you had been having driving lessons in. Just so you can be to driving test standard and not waste time and money on re-tests. Anyway, it's a two part test these days i.e. you have to take a multiple choice exam first then, depending on the result of this, you can apply to do the practical test. It's not like you get the date and time of the test, take the classroom based test then, if you pass, go on to do the practical test. The two are done on different days.

By the way, if you take your driving test and pass it in a car with automatic gear transmission you will only legally be allowed to drive a car (in Britain at least) with automatic gear transmission.

If you take your driving test and pass it in a car with manual - what you are calling standard, gear transmission then you can legally drive a car (in Britain at least) with either manual or automatic gear transmission.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

90% of UK car rental vehicles are manual. It tends to cost more to rent an auto.
Not sure about taking the test in a rental. Better to have a few lessons with a driving school to familiarize yourself with the differences ,then take test in their car - that's what most people do.
Re bank account. Can't answer this as I'm UK citizen and kept my UK bank accounts when we emigrated. you will need a UK address for certain. if you have British citizenship then you should be able to open one.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Thank you for the advice. Perhaps a couple lessons would be valuable, yes, because of the differences and also knowing what the "test standard" is on things. I just looked at lessons, they're not AS expensive as I thought. I still think that £400 is ridiculous though (that seems to be about what basic "brush up" lessons cost).

I know it's not a popular view, but I know a guy who sold his car when he moved to San Francisco, says that it was the best decision he ever made.

And obviously I know I have to take the test in a standard Snap Shot, that's why I mentioned it :) Quite the difference from the US, where taking the test in a standard is discouraged (and my understanding is, outright banned in New Jersey).

Re: Banking new to UK
 

I must admit I can see absolutely no reason why an American citizen should have any difficulty getting car insurance, many US citizens live in this country either temporarily or permanently and it must be assumed they can legally drive.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Not that the OP is particularly interested but good old Tesco say this. Direct Line state this

Please note , to be seen as UK ordinarily resident one need to have been in the UK for at least 6 months I believe.
Someone correct me if the period of time is incorrect.

I have taken this from what is required from a younger person that has been outside of the UK for over 2 years but then want to apply for a UK WHV. Those people need to be back in the UK for half a year it seems.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Both those links refer to foreign licences, so it definitely seems like I should just spend a few hundred pounds and get a British licence so I have it.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

In your own time. No biggie. Public transport is good and taxis abound.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

As far as I know it is still possible to take the driving test on an automatic in the UK, but then you are only qualified to drive an automatic, which is a severe disadvantage in the UK where most vehicles are manual.

You can work out whether you need a UK license here:https://www.gov.uk/driving-nongb-licence/y

Re: Banking new to UK
 

If I get the licence within a year, my understanding is I don't have to go through the "L" and "R" nonsense. I can just drive on my US licence until granted a UK one.

And it's also a disadvantage because driving automatics is awful. I can tolerate driving a standard, I live in the rural US, I'm driving ANYWHERE - I have to drive six hours to get to the closest large city (Seattle). I never suggested I'd WANT to test in an automatic, I was just thinking it may be possible to rent a car to take the test - the problem, of course, being that in my experience rentals are all automatic (which a poster above confirmed is NOT the case in the UK).

I think the people saying it's best to take lessons in the UK are correct, unfortunately. The YouTube videos I'm watching of people driving for the test in the UK are pretty nuts, and I think lessons are in order so I know what is expected. For example - they have them putting on the handbrake CONSTANTLY. Not just when stopped for a light or something, but ALWAYS. Yielding at a roundabout? Quickly put the handbrake on and off. Waiting at a stop sign? Same thing.

The only time I ever use my handbrake is when stopped at a light or on the steep hills in downtown Seattle. I live in a very flat area, so I'm not extremely confident on steep hills in heavy traffic, so using the handbrake helps me feel a bit more confident that I won't roll back into the person behind me. Realistically, I know this is being silly and overly cautious. Yet, apparently, it seems that for the British driving exam you're supposed to set the handbrake if you stop for any reason...

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Markie,
That's exactly why I suggested you use a driving school. lessons are about 40pounds an hour but I'd have thought you'd only need a couple of hours. Yes, we do use the handbrake all the time. (well, until we've passed the test!) we used to use hand signals as well!
i thought you could exchange your US drivers licence for a UK one so long as you did it in a certain time frame. Here in the Philippines you get a licence before even learning to drive! My sons Filipina partner has a licence and has NEVER sat behind a driving wheel!

Re: Banking new to UK
 

A US driving license can NOT be directly exchanged for a UK driving license.

When a USC becomes resident in the UK, their US driving license is good for 1 year. After that period, it is no longer acceptable. Therefore, if you are found driving on a US license after 1 year, you will be charged with driving without proper insurance on the vehicle since a stipulation of all insurance policies is the requirement for a legal driving license.

A USC will have to take 3 tests. Tests 1 and 2 are given on a computer, and are administered at select offices in a different location to where they will take the 3rd test (the practical driving test).

The 1st test is 50 questions based on the drivers manual. The 2nd test is an interactive test to evaluate your response to potential threatening situations, and follows immediately after the 1st test. Think 'first person shooter' computer games. You are shown real footage from inside a vehicle travelling on real roads in everyday situations. You must respond when you see a potential situation that may require an emergency reaction by clicking the mouse. This 2nd test is (I've been told) the more difficult for the older applicants (those not use to playing first person shooters).

Caveat: at one time it was suggested the 2nd test may no longer be given. I do not know if it is still given or not.

Unless they are very lucky, making an appointment for the 1st and 2nd test and the time the tests are given is usually, at minimum, 1 month apart. It may well be an additional month or more before they can take the practical test. Booking the tests is done online, and there are many applicants.

After they have been resident in the UK for 6 months, a person with a provisional license may apply for the 3rd test, the practical driving test.

There are some on forums who claim to not have had any lessons, yet passed the test. I would question this (or assume they practiced with a spouse or close friend who was a driving examiner). An experienced USC applicant is not expected to start by 'learning to drive'. The driving instructor instead will 'teach' the applicant the rules that apply to driving in the UK. Most find that their driving skills improve greatly as a result.

It's an old expression, but true, they are learning how to pass the driving test. I would suggest any USC applying for a UK license should have, at minimum, 4 hours with a driving instructor. Driving in front of a stranger who is evaluating your performance is an experience one needs to become comfortable with. From what I've heard, the driving practical test has not been made easier, but it now pertains more to 'realistic driving' (I know no other way to say this) and is less about aspects such as the 'not crossing over hands on the wheel when executing a turn' type requirements of the older tests.

As has been stated previously, passing the test in an automatic will result in a restriction on your license, limiting you to only driving automatics. Passing the test in a manual allows you to drive both automatic and manual drive cars.

I have never heard of a USC resident in the UK being unable to obtain insurance. This doesn't imply it's never happened. The choice of insurance companies may be somewhat limited, and the cost of the insurance will be high (they are treated as a 1st time, novice driver).

The successful applicant will be issued a photocard license in addition to the paper license. In light of other posts on this thread, you should know the photocard license will include your country of birth.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Thank you Quiltman and OAP,

1. My immediate concern was banking but I find the driver licence information very helpful as well! I'm sure, much though I would prefer not to, I really should get a licence.

2. I think that the idea of taking some lessons is good, and I'll do it. Long-run, it's probably best all around.

3. OAP, I think I made it pretty clear I had no interest in taking the test in an automatic. Automatics are a huge PITA to drive, I just was thinking of renting a car and taking the test in it, and rental agencies where I live (in the US) ONLY rent automatics, I've never rented a car elsewhere so I wasn't sure if that was the same everywhere. I have researched it and seen that's not allowed anyway.

4. Not sure why I'd care about the licence showing my country of birth. I'm not on the run from the law, or something like that. I just don't want my life to be too big of pain because of America's ridiculous overreaching. I do find it interesting, however, that they'd put country of birth on a driver's licence when they don't on passports (due to the banking thing, I am very glad my British passport does NOT list my country of birth).

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Back to the topic of this thread...

I assume this means you agree with my post #9 on the above.

Again, I assume this means you agree with my post #9 on the above.

And now, to the heart of the discussion.

There are 10 or so Swiss banks who flagrantly abused IRS reporting requirements by encouraging certain of their customers to take illegal actions. They deserve the wrath that has been accorded them. What we do need to be aware of is the part FATCA plays in the current Swiss banking situation for USCs verses the result of actions taken by the US Department of Justice in response to the above violations. The actions of DoJ probably play more of a role in the denial of accounts to USCs than FATCA does.

The DoJ has required all Swiss banks (aside from those already charged) to verify that any USC customer, during the last 5 years, has reported all their accounts to the IRS/Treasury held with those Swiss banks. For most of the banks, this was an impossible request to honour. They therefore found no alternative but to plead guilty and pay substantial fines/penalties. They did this in spite of being (presumed) innocent of encouraging any USC to engage in tax evasion. As a result, there are now only 2 or 3 Swiss banks, and perhaps a handful of Kantonal banks, which will accept new accounts from USCs. These accounts are limited to current and savings accounts.

JAJ, you have implied that banks in the UK have not acted as these Swiss banks have in the past and are therefore far less likely to be subjected to similar difficulties in the future. I would remind you that several of the UK High Street banks have been found guilty of illegal(?) acts, and have been fined by the US Treasury for their actions.

The UK banks are aware of the actions of the DoJ in Switzerland. They are also aware that the US has discovered a successful and 'vote getting' campaign against those USCs who hold 'foreign bank accounts'. I can assure you the UK banks are aware that at any time the US Congress decides to have yet more legislation passed which will further gain attention to the supposed efforts to 'get a fair share' from all those who hold foreign accounts, the resulting legislation (or even actions of the DoJ) can happen overnight in the most unexpected ways. That includes consequences for any FFI with USC customers who are UK residents, or even UK Citizens.

The current Russian situation appears to be an example where, if the US choses to do so, FATCA legislation can be used to achieve goals unrelated to the exchange of banking information by enforcing sanctions on the banks of a foreign country. It has not gone without notice in the foreign press of other countries. Of course, the US could enforce sanctions without the FATCA legislation, but FATCA now gives the US a legal reason to do so.

JAJ, you are adamant in your protestations against scaremongering. I think you will find most agree with you. Scaremongering (especially by those who may ultimately benefit from it) can lead to unfortunate circumstances. Witness those who were wrongly enrolled in the 2009 OVDP and paid a high price due to scaremongering advice.

JAJ, whilst scaremongering is distasteful, I find it also distasteful to assure USCs that they will have absolutely no problems in the future regards UK banking as a result of FATCA when, in fact, we do not know for certain whether this is true or not.

I would suggest that your advice to be very wary of anything found in internet forums be treated as suspect unless it can be verified is wise advice. I would also suggest that, in addition, any USC who is contemplating living outside the US should make certain they practice constant, due diligence as to the effect of FATCA on their new local situation, and to be certain they are aware any aspects that will effect their finances and tax reporting. If it means investigating further what appears to be scaremongering, then it may be time well spent. Today, only a fool would guarantee to know what the future will bring.

May we agree on one further point? Whilst we both feel FATCA legislation should have a reduced impact in the UK verses some other countries, neither of us can guarantee anyone what the actual, eventual impact will be at this time for USC customers of UK banks.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

You should be able to get a bank account because you are a british citizen. Also the insurance piece, I have never heard of a US citizen not being able to get insurance in the UK. As someone pointed out US car insurers cannot cover outside of the US. I would recommend taking driving lessons and using that car for the test. The UK driving test is much more difficult than the US one and the driving rules are different. The driving instructor will make sure that you know everything you need to know to pass.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

I've sent you the link from the DVLA. That's the government agency that licenses cars in the UK. Use it. As far as I can see, you will need to take the test.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

I do have a lot to figure out, and I thank you all for your help. I do find the number of driving recommendations funny, as I understand that situation far better - banking is a huge uncertainty.

I'm not really going to be a traditional "ex-pat" as you find on here. I spent my summers in the UK, half my family is there, etc. Still, there are so many issues to navigate with regards to "adult" issues I've never had to think about.

Frankly, though, for the most part these issues are no greater than they would be in California. The biggest differences are that in California I could trade in my licence for a CA one and that CA banks don't have a reputation for refusing to do business with US nationals.

Also, I've always known that I'd end up moving to England, I have no real opposition to the concept of renouncing my US citizenship to make my life easier. However, US citizenship also has valuable points - the ability to come do business in the world's largest economy with no paperwork. Also, I feel that, going forward one has to make the assumption that those who renounce US citizenship without an excellent reason (such as employment with a foreign government) need to make the assumption that they will be prohibited from entering the US for any reason. There have already been attempts in Congress to do this, and with the increase of conservatism world wide (in almost every country including the US, the UK, and others), and the accompanying racism and xenophobia, I believe these attempts stand a high chance of passing in the future.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

The British economy would grind to a halt if British banks refused to do business with US nationals. I don't know where you are getting this stuff from, but it is weird.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

If you are coming to the UK because you have a place at a British university, your best source of advice and information is going to be the university itself. You should look up their international student advisors and address any questions you have to them.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

Nope, I'm going to come to the England after I graduate looking for work. I need to move somewhere because I'm studying in a very rural part of the US, and about the only cities I can stand the idea of living in are London and Los Angeles, and I really feel like London has a lot better future for me.

Re: Banking new to UK
 

OK. I misunderstood. London is very expensive, so you'll need to make sure you have enough cash until you find a job.

If you are in London you won't need to drive. A lot of Londoners don't bother to get a car, so you could leave the issue of your driving license until you are settled.