MrsB

I have been told by a couple of people (one an aussie) that "Australia is a man's country". When I asked why - they couldn't come up with a reason, they just said because it is!

Personally - I haven't come across anything which would make me think that it is, but I'm interested in your own perceptions and experiences of why it would be a "Man's Country" (Obviously we all know it's Gods own...but that goes without saying!!!!)

rabsody

Definitely.

(disclaimer: the following are all generalisations based on my experience)

• Women seem to take on a more traditional role here. They seem to "settle down" a lot more once they have children i.e become very domesticated. UK mums are a lot more groovy.
• Fundraising at my daughter's school is still primarily based around mothers baking cakes.
• Workplace - I have been told (by more than one person) it's frowned upon for men to take time out to pick up sick kids, this usually defers to the women by default.
• Go to any BBQ and more often than not, women end up on one side, men on the other.
• Women seem to be viewed as either a shag or a mother figure. I found it very easy to have male friends in UK, doesn't seem to be the case here.

I am sure I will think of more!


ps can't wait for flea's response to this one!
pps i should also say here that i was married to an aussie, my kids father, and i can vouch that there is a definitely a mentality of kids, house, food preparation etc being womens work and men have done a hard week;s work and should spend their evenings reading the newspaper/watching sport and spend their weekends playing golf.

why

it's a man's world here. my observations go like this:
1) yes women can get on in male professions
2 the female professions are slow to get the same pay as their equivalent male professions ie compare nursing and engineering which have similar training and qualifications the pay difference is huge
3) socially there are some very nasty attitudes from men. strangely with young men who think women are there to do all the house work and look after kids, many young men don't think they should change babies nappies or care for them.
4) there is an abundance of male chauvinist here and consider women to be second class citizens one footy commentator on the telly said "what have women ever done for football" if you said that in UK you'd be off the telly (more than 50% of the crowds are women!!!
5) my last one for now is that childbirth is male medically dominated here with LSCS rates over 33% more than that if you go private

i think it's to do with history and how the colony developed. Of course there are some nice aussie blokes but the media does much to continue the macho man (ice coffee and pies and big cars and equipment) it's interesting that australia has quite a large gay population..umm from what i know from my friends men who emigrate from uk settle more easily to women. so yes i reckon it's a man's country.

jad n rich

Women are very domesticated and dowdy at a very young age, gawd better put IMO on that

Barbie scene says it all, women to the kitchen, men on the deck women pass them a drink, WTF is that all about, disrupt it, hand your man some salad tongs and a washing up wand and walk out, drink wine on the deck.

Scrapbooking, now that really says it all, all I can say is WHY

Traditional,( not so much the travelled ) Aussie men just dont seem that comfortable with women in roles other than Mother or Shag. Perhaps thats why they feel its a mans country.

Anyone seen the welcome to austraila mural at brissie international airport the barefoot and preggers woman, the shiela, the MRs, the yobbo bloke with a beer, never know if to laugh or graffiti it

rabsody

Oh you just reminded me of a few more JnR ...

• why is it that women are always requested to organise any food at work, i.e. morning tea, staff birthdays etc?
• why are women always baking stuff here to bring in? I don't recall anyone EVER making a cake or dip or whatever to bring in to work in UK.
• men are much more openly lechy and leery
• they only buy you a drink if they want to sh*g you and they think they are in with a chance, not because they enjoy your company.
• british women put up with less sh*t
• my aussie OH reckons aussie women are a lot more subservient (i'm the only pom he's been out with).
  

jad n rich

At first mine used to ask questions like why I didnt fold and stack his washing, or make his tea, his mother said I had a attitude problem

Pom with attitude - she hated me

Megami

I am writing my PhD on Australian national identity, so I have thought a bit about this topic. I won't bore you with that though, but I will say some of the things are are pointing out as 'Australian' are not attitudes I have encountered - and I have lived here most of my life, married to an Australian, work with them etc. Actually the most backward, misogynistic, 'women should be in there place' boyfriend I ever had was British! So you have to be careful about stereotyping a whole country.

That said, when it comes to the 'meta-themes' of Australian culture - the bushman, the 'Digger/ANZAC', the bushranger, the cricketer - they are all very male. I think you will find that the iconic characters of most nations are male, so again, I don't know if you can say it is a fault all of Australia's own.


Why - can you honestly show me any country where nursing is paid equal to or more than engineering? I don't think that is a very good example.

rabsody

Didn't mean to offend Megami and as mentioned, my opinions are based on my experience and are of course sweeping generalisations! I suppose having a very traditional Australian ex-husband, living in a conservative suburb and also having been in Qld for 8 years have heightened those opinions!

I'd have to agree about the nursing, "female" jobs are traditionally paid less than "male" based jobs across the board.

Your PhD sounds very interesting. I did a course in the same vein last semester (at bachelor level so much more basic than yours!) and our lecturer was discussing Australian identity and that due to the age of the country Aus did not really have a definitive identity as it was still in the process of "finding itself".

Megami

Rabsody, I am not offended at all! If anything, I know that I have a habit of only seeing 'what I want to see' with Australian society a lot of the time, I have to take a step back and say 'is that really an Australian thing, or really a Western thing/English speaking thing/universal thing' sometimes.

Though I grew up in rural/country Queensland, so yes, I have seen firsthand some of the attitudes that can prevail!

DunRoaminTheUK

I would be interested to know what you think the best 3 things and worst 3 things about Australians are, in your objective and academic opinion?

Megami

Bloomin' 'eck! Can I just state for the record my undergraduate degree was in history and my Masters in International Relations, so I don't think I am much of an academic source on this type of thing! But since you asked

Three best things:
-Initiative. Since this is very much a 'self made' country, there is a high expectation that people can make things happen. Not so much like the US and 'the American Dream' but examples such as it is not considered to far out an idea that someone from a very blue-collar family will go to university (if you are from an Indigenous community, the story is very different of course).
- Pride in our country. While 'godzoners' are very annoying, the Australian level of pride in our country can be quite refreshing, especially when compared to somewhere else like the UK! Much of this is due to a lack of information about the outside world and wishful thinking, but a lot of it is informed thinking. We are actually world leaders in a lot of areas, and our country is quite spectacular when it comes to nature.
- Friendliness. When dealing with other Aussies both here in Australia and when encountered overseas there is a refreshing attitude of 'I am cool with you until you do something to piss me off' rather than 'I am going to treat you with disdain until you prove you are worthy.' Yes, the fair go is still alive and well.

Three worst things:
- Lack of insight. There are stupid people the world over, but there is a strong current in Australia of not wanting to analyse our own culture, attitudes and society. No one wants to consider that actually we have a long way to go in some respects, both in terms of understanding our place in the world (for example, I work for the Army, and if I have to hear one more time about how we are supposedly 'punching above our weight' in our international commitments ...), and how bigotted we can be. There are a lot of very closed-minded Australians.
- Sense of entitlement. I think a lot of this comes from the ingrained sense that we are 'egalitarian', but it then spills over to sentiment such as 'I am entitled to middle class welfare' (things such as the 'Baby Bonus' - I paid taxes for years, so why shouldn't I get $5K for having a baby like those scummy people earning less than me?) and the tall poppy syndrome Australia is so famous for. Part of my thesis is actually exploring how our egalitarianism has influenced what symbols and stories (specifically military history and military symbolism) we think we are entitled to 'own'.
- Lack of culture. This is related to point number one, but there are so few Australians who speak another language (I am one of them) though that is changing with the changing demographic of immigrants. Another example is the fact that we like to think we are on the cutting edge of such things as music, visual arts, fashion, but I am sorry people, we are not. Cate Blanchett and Kylie Minogue do not a world cultural powerhouse make.

I hope this makes sense. I apologise that I have made broad sweeping statements and stereotypes, but I guess that is what you are asking for!

And I retain the right to change or clarify this in the future - this is really just thinking aloud with a keyboard!!

rabsody

Thanks for posting that it made for some great reading.

why

hi megami- i am really interested in your studying. i wish i knew more about such things.
i guess having been a nurse/midwife all my working life, just as an observation of working in a female dominated work environment,i compare my self with my friends and others so at 45 my pay is such a lot less for having studied more and also being very hard to progress career wise (ok i am just frustrated with it) as a midwife i see that it as one of the few real "female" jobs and take a feminist perspective. In the uk midwives deal with normal childbirth and doctors work with midwives when help is needed in Oz midwives are generally regarded as they are in the usa as an obstertic nurse who helps the doctors to deliver babies they don't have much of an identity as a profession. the evidence throughout the world always goes that the more midwives you have the better the health of mothers and babies and the more empowered the women are in those nations (such as Holland) ie the more under the thumb women are the more likely they are to not have midwives. at the moment the plight of women globally is pretty poor where childbirth is concerned. How ever there are some changes happening in australia where midwifery is getting much better recognition may be as austraila finds it's identity then women will stop thinking as themselves as second rate and female professions such as midwifery/ nursing will start to have more status in society (long way off wishful thinking!!!!) but at the moment it is the most regulated profession (do you know many wealthy independent midwives?) I suppose it isn't the career of choice if you want to be rich but is very rewarding. Do you know of any other "female professions" where women have high status in the community?
i am going back to uni this year so wish me luck!!!

DunRoaminTheUK

Thanks for that. A balanced perspective I do believe (on the 3 best and worst anyway).

Do you think that introducing means testing for the baby-bonus goes against the government-proclaimed egalitarianism of Australia? Do you foresee a class-based social system creeping in "through the back door"?

St.Georges Girl

Good post Megami, there was only one thing I didn't quite see eye to eye with you on, but I won't say what it is as this is how you see things and not I.