America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Apr 6th 2004, 5:20 pm
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
simon bland <member2908@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> What's the BIG DEAL. As a British
> American, I see no problem with it. Unfortunatly the UK has not been as
> strict as the US in previous immigration, and there are now a lot of
> undesirable British Subjects or Citizens, Just read todays Sun Newspaper
> and you will see what I mean.
Oh yes, The Sun, that pinnacle of balanced and unbiased journalism,
which would never sacrifice objectity in order to increase profits.
Steve
>
> What's the BIG DEAL. As a British
> American, I see no problem with it. Unfortunatly the UK has not been as
> strict as the US in previous immigration, and there are now a lot of
> undesirable British Subjects or Citizens, Just read todays Sun Newspaper
> and you will see what I mean.
Oh yes, The Sun, that pinnacle of balanced and unbiased journalism,
which would never sacrifice objectity in order to increase profits.
Steve
Apr 6th 2004, 5:27 pm
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
When I was in the military and had a job that included securing of the supplies,
admin paperwork, etc. the MPS repeatedly said that locks only stop the honest ones.
My "flat-foot" friends say the same thing about cities. I note locked and "secure"
high value (and low value) cars are still stolen - and sometimes from secure areas.
I'll bet these thefts are done by Canadian and US citizens too.
Oliver Costich wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:04:04 -0500, Ken Pisichko <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Look around you! Your country cannot stop your own kind doing in other US
> >citizens. ....snip........That seems to be the way things are going -
> >not good. Folks will still do damage.
> Your house is burgled by a guest so don't lock the doors. Makes sense
> to me.
admin paperwork, etc. the MPS repeatedly said that locks only stop the honest ones.
My "flat-foot" friends say the same thing about cities. I note locked and "secure"
high value (and low value) cars are still stolen - and sometimes from secure areas.
I'll bet these thefts are done by Canadian and US citizens too.
Oliver Costich wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:04:04 -0500, Ken Pisichko <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Look around you! Your country cannot stop your own kind doing in other US
> >citizens. ....snip........That seems to be the way things are going -
> >not good. Folks will still do damage.
> Your house is burgled by a guest so don't lock the doors. Makes sense
> to me.
Apr 6th 2004, 5:36 pm
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Yes, media bias exists as does media falsity. I remember reading an article on the NY Times web site, recently,
about Canadian soldiers from the Second Batallion stationed at Trenton going to Haiti. Yah, sure!
My e-mail letter to the news types at the NY Times remains unanswered, but they pulled that particular version
a couple of hours later.
Fancy that! In the NY Times too. No Second batallion. No army troops "stationed" at an airforce base - just
like sailors are not "stationed" at an airforce base..
Steve wrote:
> Oh yes, The Sun, that pinnacle of balanced and unbiased journalism,
> which would never sacrifice objectity in order to increase profits.
about Canadian soldiers from the Second Batallion stationed at Trenton going to Haiti. Yah, sure!
My e-mail letter to the news types at the NY Times remains unanswered, but they pulled that particular version
a couple of hours later.
Fancy that! In the NY Times too. No Second batallion. No army troops "stationed" at an airforce base - just
like sailors are not "stationed" at an airforce base..
Steve wrote:
> Oh yes, The Sun, that pinnacle of balanced and unbiased journalism,
> which would never sacrifice objectity in order to increase profits.
Apr 6th 2004, 5:48 pm
#94
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by stevelisaw
While I am not certain of the percentage of Americans that have passports as opposed to those who do not, there is something that one needs to consider before putting down those who don't carry a passport in the US.
While I am not certain of the percentage of Americans that have passports as opposed to those who do not, there is something that one needs to consider before putting down those who don't carry a passport in the US.
Apr 6th 2004, 6:11 pm
#95
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2001
Location: Ohio
Posts: 659
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by meauxna
Great rebuttal, stevelisa. Another factor to add: while rubbing elbows with a significant number of Brits (while they were on holiday in Greece!), I discovered how many had *no* idea of the scale of the US. Larger than Western Europe, for example. The entire UK fits neatly inside Oregon (where? North of California, South of Microsoft) except that we only have 3 million people living in all that space.
Great rebuttal, stevelisa. Another factor to add: while rubbing elbows with a significant number of Brits (while they were on holiday in Greece!), I discovered how many had *no* idea of the scale of the US. Larger than Western Europe, for example. The entire UK fits neatly inside Oregon (where? North of California, South of Microsoft) except that we only have 3 million people living in all that space.
lol add hubby to that list of Brits who had no idea the actual size of the US....when he arrived wanted to zip down to Florida for the weekend by car.....uhm we are in NE Ohio....zipping wasn't possible.
Lisa
Apr 6th 2004, 8:41 pm
#96
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by Ken Pisichko
Look around you! Your country cannot stop your own kind doing in other US
citizens. A couple of examples: Tim McVe??, the couple of sniper types who
terrorised the washingto DC area, etc. Bombs, guns, then of course there is the
heroin and crack coke..... Nut cases everywhere - even if you totally seal off
the USA from the rest of this earth. That seems to be the way things are going -
not good. Folks will still do damage.
Look around you! Your country cannot stop your own kind doing in other US
citizens. A couple of examples: Tim McVe??, the couple of sniper types who
terrorised the washingto DC area, etc. Bombs, guns, then of course there is the
heroin and crack coke..... Nut cases everywhere - even if you totally seal off
the USA from the rest of this earth. That seems to be the way things are going -
not good. Folks will still do damage.
YOU WROTE:
<<<<SNIP>>>>
"A couple of examples: Tim McVe??, the couple of sniper types who terrorised the washingto DC area, etc"
<<<<SNIP>>>>
You are an idiot. The sniper who did all the shooting in Washington D.C. was an ILLEGAL ALIEN!
You just proved my point.
We have criminals of our own. We don't need to import more!
Apr 6th 2004, 8:50 pm
#97
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by Squirrel
I just can't see how they are going to do an FBI check in a few seconds, when applicants for immigrant visas have to wait weeks for the FBI check. If it is really possible to do it there and then, why can't it be done at the embassies on the day of the interview?
I just can't see how they are going to do an FBI check in a few seconds, when applicants for immigrant visas have to wait weeks for the FBI check. If it is really possible to do it there and then, why can't it be done at the embassies on the day of the interview?
Faxing paper copies of fingerprints is a lot more tedious than sending them electronically. They check at the consulate on the day of the interview, and then they check the fingerprint again at the border to make sure that the same person is arriving with the passport. It doesn't help to only check when you issue the visa, if someone changes the photo before coming to the U.S. Also, there are sometimes corrupt employees at the consulate because they hire locals to work there.
We can have you stand there in the airport all day while a forensic document examiner reviews each document for alterations, or you can put your finger on the scanner. Examining the document won't tell you if the person has been previously deported , changed their name, or obtained it by fraud either.
What do you suggest the Americans to do about the problem of fraudulent documents at the border?
Apr 6th 2004, 9:03 pm
#98
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by Kocourkov
Please, pray tell how harassing tourists with feel good security measures does any of the above. Hmmm? Maybe think about it while you're at the gym or wolfing down that second tub of ice cream this afternoon. Protecting American jobs, for example, means bringing tourists to spend money and then they go home. Bona-fide tourists are in no sense immigrants as by the definition of the word 'tourist' their basic intention is to visit someplace and then leave again relatively soon thereafter.
You've ducked my points so far, and probably can't think of anything besides empty rhetoric, which you don't seem to understand.
Please, pray tell how harassing tourists with feel good security measures does any of the above. Hmmm? Maybe think about it while you're at the gym or wolfing down that second tub of ice cream this afternoon. Protecting American jobs, for example, means bringing tourists to spend money and then they go home. Bona-fide tourists are in no sense immigrants as by the definition of the word 'tourist' their basic intention is to visit someplace and then leave again relatively soon thereafter.
You've ducked my points so far, and probably can't think of anything besides empty rhetoric, which you don't seem to understand.
How is the U.S. government supposed to detect fraudulent European passports without biometric information? Belgium was issuing handwritten passports, and truckloads of their blank passports were stolen.
Malaysian passports have a microchip in them. When scanned at the U.S. border, the traveler's photo and information pops up on the screen. Why can't the UK match the innovation of it's former colony Malaysia?
I feel bad for Germany. They have high quality documents. The low quality European passports are half the reason why they have to use fingerprinting. They should make you all get visas.
Tell me how they are supposed to know who the tourists are?
Apr 6th 2004, 9:17 pm
#99
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Waukee, Iowa
Posts: 1,583
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
As a frequent traveller to the US myself, I have no problem with it. It is hardly an inconvenience and in this case I can see a valuable purpose for it.
Is it degrading? I suppose you might think so, but we've had a handscanner at work for years, my driving license contains biometric information...it's just the way the world is going.
Is it degrading? I suppose you might think so, but we've had a handscanner at work for years, my driving license contains biometric information...it's just the way the world is going.
Apr 6th 2004, 9:32 pm
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Sorry Maniak, that was meant for LithiaSpgs
"Maniack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:56:03 GMT, "Mickey"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >There are none so blind as those that won't see!
> >I think you are a little too trusting of your government.
> How is it trusting when I flatly said that I don't believe what they
> are saying? Me thinks you got confused.
> >
> >"Maniack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:15 -0400, L D Jones <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >LithiaSpgs wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> It is not aimed at English citizens but we need to know who is
coming
> >into the
> >> >> country and when they leave. It is only fair. It is not that big a
deal
> >and the
> >> >> stuff is destroyed once you exit.
> >> >
> >> >I have trouble believing that a government will destroy information it
> >> >has collected. They will probably save it just becausee they can
> >>
> >> Anyone with a brain knows they won't destroy any information.
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________
> >>
> >> Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________
> >
> _________________________________________________
> Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
> _________________________________________________
"Maniack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:56:03 GMT, "Mickey"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >There are none so blind as those that won't see!
> >I think you are a little too trusting of your government.
> How is it trusting when I flatly said that I don't believe what they
> are saying? Me thinks you got confused.
> >
> >"Maniack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:15 -0400, L D Jones <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >LithiaSpgs wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> It is not aimed at English citizens but we need to know who is
coming
> >into the
> >> >> country and when they leave. It is only fair. It is not that big a
deal
> >and the
> >> >> stuff is destroyed once you exit.
> >> >
> >> >I have trouble believing that a government will destroy information it
> >> >has collected. They will probably save it just becausee they can
> >>
> >> Anyone with a brain knows they won't destroy any information.
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________
> >>
> >> Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________
> >
> _________________________________________________
> Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
> _________________________________________________
Apr 6th 2004, 10:20 pm
#101
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 39
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by crg14624
How is the U.S. government supposed to detect fraudulent European passports without biometric information? Belgium was issuing handwritten passports, and truckloads of their blank passports were stolen.
How is the U.S. government supposed to detect fraudulent European passports without biometric information? Belgium was issuing handwritten passports, and truckloads of their blank passports were stolen.
You and the other troll on this forum are really short on arguments beyond what you see other people repeating. So you go and repeat, without even bothering to look up on iota on the issue.
Apr 6th 2004, 10:38 pm
#102
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by Kocourkov
This shows that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. There is no existent technology for measuring biometrics and there hasn't even been an agreement on international standards. Ergo, the US can't start putting in the technology to measure the stuff when it doesn't even know what to measure.
You and the other troll on this forum are really short on arguments beyond what you see other people repeating. So you go and repeat, without even bothering to look up on iota on the issue.
This shows that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. There is no existent technology for measuring biometrics and there hasn't even been an agreement on international standards. Ergo, the US can't start putting in the technology to measure the stuff when it doesn't even know what to measure.
You and the other troll on this forum are really short on arguments beyond what you see other people repeating. So you go and repeat, without even bothering to look up on iota on the issue.
Fingerprints are an example of biometrics. NSEERS and USVISIT use biometrics.
http://www.iwar.org.uk/news-archive/2003/05-19.htm
I've forgotten more about illegal immigration, trends, and forensic document analysis than you will ever know.
Now answer the question: How is the US gov't supposed to figure out which low quality UK passport is being used by a previously deported criminal alien?
What do you suggest?
Apr 6th 2004, 11:00 pm
#103
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 709
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
>Please, pray tell how harassing tourists
What you call "harassment", i call "ensuring integrity and security".
Hey, if you don't like our "harassment". Don't come. Why should we lower our border security, just so you can an extra 20 seconds on your 8 month "vacation"? It makes that much difference to you?
>Protecting American jobs, for example, means bringing tourists >to spend money and then they go home.
Any "tourist" who can't afford to spend 20 seconds to help ensure our security, isn't welcome here.
I don't see you whine when you spend an extra 5 minutes at the x-ray machine, getting frisked, your valubles checked, and your face being photographed w/o your permission and checked against facial recognition of terrorists. Oh yeah, cuz YOU don't want to go crashing into the ground courtesy of a terrorist bomb.
Well guess what -- NEITHER do we.
>which you don't seem to understand.
You come here. We check to make sure you're legit and legal. And you're on your way. What's wrong with that?
Whine all you want. Terrorism is becoming global, and more countries (perhaps your own!) will follow our lead at the border. Get used to it. This isn't 1847 anymore.
-= nav =-
What you call "harassment", i call "ensuring integrity and security".
Hey, if you don't like our "harassment". Don't come. Why should we lower our border security, just so you can an extra 20 seconds on your 8 month "vacation"? It makes that much difference to you?
>Protecting American jobs, for example, means bringing tourists >to spend money and then they go home.
Any "tourist" who can't afford to spend 20 seconds to help ensure our security, isn't welcome here.
I don't see you whine when you spend an extra 5 minutes at the x-ray machine, getting frisked, your valubles checked, and your face being photographed w/o your permission and checked against facial recognition of terrorists. Oh yeah, cuz YOU don't want to go crashing into the ground courtesy of a terrorist bomb.
Well guess what -- NEITHER do we.
>which you don't seem to understand.
You come here. We check to make sure you're legit and legal. And you're on your way. What's wrong with that?
Whine all you want. Terrorism is becoming global, and more countries (perhaps your own!) will follow our lead at the border. Get used to it. This isn't 1847 anymore.
-= nav =-
Apr 7th 2004, 6:19 am
#104
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 39
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by crg14624
Dear country shopping retard:
Fingerprints are an example of biometrics. NSEERS and USVISIT use biometrics.
http://www.iwar.org.uk/news-archive/2003/05-19.htm
I've forgotten more about illegal immigration, trends, and forensic document analysis than you will ever know.
What do you suggest?
Dear country shopping retard:
Fingerprints are an example of biometrics. NSEERS and USVISIT use biometrics.
http://www.iwar.org.uk/news-archive/2003/05-19.htm
I've forgotten more about illegal immigration, trends, and forensic document analysis than you will ever know.
What do you suggest?
Biometric measurement in passports, tubby. Biometric measurement in passports. What do I suggest? I don't. I know that tourists are voting with their feet and money because simpltons like yourself need to feel safe about their hermetically sealed suburban existence.
Oh, why isn't is that anyone can talk about the unprotected southern border? Can't? It's because you guys have no idea what you're talking about. You're just mouthing empty rhetoric which you saw on TV.
More tourists coming to Europe or staying in Europe means that more money stays and gets spent here. More jobs for here. You lose. Game over.
Getting into the US was never easy, and now folks just won't bother. With a political class that has absolutely no comprehension of international relations, the US is doomed to continue to keep making stupid, pointless gestures that honk off anyone willing to be friendly to it. Again, you lose.
CRG was the one who asserted that the US was facing a flood of UK passports where the photo had been substituted. Again, what kind of drugs are you on? The current passports are plenty tamper-proof. You guys can't seem to differentiate the need for stricter immmigration controls and pointless gestures that you cannot explain in any kind of detailed, logical manner.
But you guys can feel safe shopping for that oil drum of ice cream down at the local Wal-Mart.
Last edited by Kocourkov; Apr 7th 2004 at 6:40 am.
Apr 7th 2004, 7:41 am
#105
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 217
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
If Americans are so stupid as you imply, how come this
thread is full of Brits who want things to be the way it used
to be so they can come here for easy visits? You are
all voting with your posts here.
Stay away from dumb people and their Wal Marts and stay
in your little island with your boring Queen if a little
fingerprint is such a big deal.
thread is full of Brits who want things to be the way it used
to be so they can come here for easy visits? You are
all voting with your posts here.
Stay away from dumb people and their Wal Marts and stay
in your little island with your boring Queen if a little
fingerprint is such a big deal.
Originally posted by Kocourkov
Well, there you have it. Since you don't have anything to say, you start using insults. You and Tweedle Dum here assume that you have the world market cornered on terrorism acts.
Biometric measurement in passports, tubby. Biometric measurement in passports. What do I suggest? I don't. I know that tourists are voting with their feet and money because simpltons like yourself need to feel safe about their hermetically sealed suburban existence.
Oh, why isn't is that anyone can talk about the unprotected southern border? Can't? It's because you guys have no idea what you're talking about. You're just mouthing empty rhetoric which you saw on TV.
More tourists coming to Europe or staying in Europe means that more money stays and gets spent here. More jobs for here. You lose. Game over.
Getting into the US was never easy, and now folks just won't bother. With a political class that has absolutely no comprehension of international relations, the US is doomed to continue to keep making stupid, pointless gestures that honk off anyone willing to be friendly to it. Again, you lose.
CRG was the one who asserted that the US was facing a flood of UK passports where the photo had been substituted. Again, what kind of drugs are you on? The current passports are plenty tamper-proof. You guys can't seem to differentiate the need for stricter immmigration controls and pointless gestures that you cannot explain in any kind of detailed, logical manner.
But you guys can feel safe shopping for that oil drum of ice cream down at the local Wal-Mart.
Well, there you have it. Since you don't have anything to say, you start using insults. You and Tweedle Dum here assume that you have the world market cornered on terrorism acts.
Biometric measurement in passports, tubby. Biometric measurement in passports. What do I suggest? I don't. I know that tourists are voting with their feet and money because simpltons like yourself need to feel safe about their hermetically sealed suburban existence.
Oh, why isn't is that anyone can talk about the unprotected southern border? Can't? It's because you guys have no idea what you're talking about. You're just mouthing empty rhetoric which you saw on TV.
More tourists coming to Europe or staying in Europe means that more money stays and gets spent here. More jobs for here. You lose. Game over.
Getting into the US was never easy, and now folks just won't bother. With a political class that has absolutely no comprehension of international relations, the US is doomed to continue to keep making stupid, pointless gestures that honk off anyone willing to be friendly to it. Again, you lose.
CRG was the one who asserted that the US was facing a flood of UK passports where the photo had been substituted. Again, what kind of drugs are you on? The current passports are plenty tamper-proof. You guys can't seem to differentiate the need for stricter immmigration controls and pointless gestures that you cannot explain in any kind of detailed, logical manner.
But you guys can feel safe shopping for that oil drum of ice cream down at the local Wal-Mart.