America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Apr 5th 2004, 10:54 pm
#61
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 709
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
So let's get this straight..:
You value your CONVENIENCE as more important than our need to ensure terrorists don't KILL us in our office buildings in the morning, or our beds at night?
With selfish arrogant thinking like that -- maybe it IS good that you stay out of our country.
Not OUR fault that Britain males can't come now to the US and stay at their gf's house for 9 months, and not get turned away next time they fly over.
Visiting the US (just like any other country that isn't yours) is a priviledge. DON'T abuse it.
Besides, we have enough people coming here "seeking a better life" anyways. Cutting down on immigration sure ain't gonna hurt.
-= nav =-
You value your CONVENIENCE as more important than our need to ensure terrorists don't KILL us in our office buildings in the morning, or our beds at night?
With selfish arrogant thinking like that -- maybe it IS good that you stay out of our country.
Not OUR fault that Britain males can't come now to the US and stay at their gf's house for 9 months, and not get turned away next time they fly over.
Visiting the US (just like any other country that isn't yours) is a priviledge. DON'T abuse it.
Besides, we have enough people coming here "seeking a better life" anyways. Cutting down on immigration sure ain't gonna hurt.
-= nav =-
Apr 5th 2004, 11:01 pm
#62
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by Kocourkov
Fox ?! Hah! Try BBC.
Fox ?! Hah! Try BBC.
Apr 5th 2004, 11:55 pm
#63
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by crg14624
"But imagine a 60 yr old grand mother who wants to take a trip to Disney with her gran children. She has to travel all the way to the US Embassey in London"
Incorrect. Visa waiver is not going away. The government is trying to extend the deadline for biometric passports. The applicants will have two fingers scanned at the border, and fill out a visa waiver form.
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0404/040204c1.htm
"Plus even if you were arrested for some bullshit offence like drunken disorderly or whetevr - you will get DENIED first time and will never be able to travel to the USA."
Incorrect: Drunk and disorderly convictions, even a dozen of them would not make you inadmissible to the United States. They only keep people out for drug offenses, and crimes involving moral turpitude. CIMTs include rape, assault with a deadly weapon, murder, theft, fraud, arson, and kidnapping. Even if you have a CIMT conviction, you can get a waiver if you stay out of trouble for a few years.
So many people are entering our country with falsified visa waiver country passports, it's insane. Many of them are hardened criminals. We need to start checking better, or they will ruin the visa waiver program for everyone.
I like the U.K. and think you have a great country. I would like to visit there someday. You have to understand that it isn't just about the U.K. people. It's about bad people who obtain U.K passports and then use them to enter and harm America. It's happening now.
I wouldn't be caught dead watching CNN. I watch Fox News, which, I believe, is owned by the same guy who run Sky News.
Why are you applying for a visa?
"But imagine a 60 yr old grand mother who wants to take a trip to Disney with her gran children. She has to travel all the way to the US Embassey in London"
Incorrect. Visa waiver is not going away. The government is trying to extend the deadline for biometric passports. The applicants will have two fingers scanned at the border, and fill out a visa waiver form.
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0404/040204c1.htm
"Plus even if you were arrested for some bullshit offence like drunken disorderly or whetevr - you will get DENIED first time and will never be able to travel to the USA."
Incorrect: Drunk and disorderly convictions, even a dozen of them would not make you inadmissible to the United States. They only keep people out for drug offenses, and crimes involving moral turpitude. CIMTs include rape, assault with a deadly weapon, murder, theft, fraud, arson, and kidnapping. Even if you have a CIMT conviction, you can get a waiver if you stay out of trouble for a few years.
So many people are entering our country with falsified visa waiver country passports, it's insane. Many of them are hardened criminals. We need to start checking better, or they will ruin the visa waiver program for everyone.
I like the U.K. and think you have a great country. I would like to visit there someday. You have to understand that it isn't just about the U.K. people. It's about bad people who obtain U.K passports and then use them to enter and harm America. It's happening now.
I wouldn't be caught dead watching CNN. I watch Fox News, which, I believe, is owned by the same guy who run Sky News.
Why are you applying for a visa?
Evereything you said used to be correct. All the rules have changed over here. No visa waiver from October and if you have been arrested or convicted for ANYTHING is in force right now.
Im applying for a Business Visa plus my girlfriend lives in the US (although I hope to bring her back to the UK)
Apr 5th 2004, 11:58 pm
#64
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Just read that link.
In the UK we are all being told to apply for visa's at the British Embassy where you have to go through a complete interview process.
Again I dont mind this myself - I just find it a little OTT.
Thanks for replying.
In the UK we are all being told to apply for visa's at the British Embassy where you have to go through a complete interview process.
Again I dont mind this myself - I just find it a little OTT.
Thanks for replying.
Apr 6th 2004, 12:04 am
#65
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by crg14624
The BBC? What are they airing this week? They're probably playing a special about how great Karl Marx was.
The BBC? What are they airing this week? They're probably playing a special about how great Karl Marx was.
Apr 6th 2004, 12:09 am
#66
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Originally posted by CharlieDLC
Evereything you said used to be correct. All the rules have changed over here. No visa waiver from October and if you have been arrested or convicted for ANYTHING is in force right now.
Im applying for a Business Visa plus my girlfriend lives in the US (although I hope to bring her back to the UK)
Evereything you said used to be correct. All the rules have changed over here. No visa waiver from October and if you have been arrested or convicted for ANYTHING is in force right now.
Im applying for a Business Visa plus my girlfriend lives in the US (although I hope to bring her back to the UK)
They've always urged people with criminal records to check with the consulate to see if they need a visa prior to attempting to enter on the visa waiver program. They advise this because most people aren't aware of which crimes count, and which ones do not. They don't want you to get to the U.S. and then have you sent back to your home country.
Good luck with your overseas romance. I know immigration paperwork can be a real pain.
Apr 6th 2004, 12:15 am
#67
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
I just find it odd that the wording changed from the CIMT wording to (quote)
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty or other similar legal action?
I know of two people now whoe check their minor offences and they were told it was all clear - they applied and ticked yes and were sent back their passports and denied without any question or interview.
Just seems a bit scary to me.
Thanks for your best wishes.
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty or other similar legal action?
I know of two people now whoe check their minor offences and they were told it was all clear - they applied and ticked yes and were sent back their passports and denied without any question or interview.
Just seems a bit scary to me.
Thanks for your best wishes.
Apr 6th 2004, 12:21 am
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
CharlieDLC <member23132@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> I have read this thread
> with interest and there seems to be a little confusion.
>
> The points that are missed are as
> follows:
>
> 1. EVERYONE in Britain who wishes to visit the US, be it
> disneyworld or visiting freinds or whatever has to apply for a visa and
> has to travel to the US embassy in London and be subjected to a full
> interview all at their own time and cost.
There is indeed a little confusion. The vast majority of British
Citizens are entitled to use the Visa Waiver program to visit the
USA for up to 90 days at a time for business or pleasure. They
fill in a short form during the flight. It costs about $6 which
is hidden in all the other flight costs. They do not need to visit
the US embassy or be subjected to a full interview.
> 2. If the person was ever
> arrested for whatever reason they will just get knocked back. I dont
> mean charged - I mean arrested full stop - even if they did nothing or
> was simply held for questioning for something they had no involvement
> in.
Nonsense. If they committed a Crime Involving Moral Turpitude
(which has a wierd and wonderful definition in USA law) they
may not use the Visa Waiver and must apply for a visa before
travelling. Anyone who applies for a visa must declare all
arrests for any reason. They will be investigated, and in many
cases a visa will be granted.
>
> I have read this thread
> with interest and there seems to be a little confusion.
>
> The points that are missed are as
> follows:
>
> 1. EVERYONE in Britain who wishes to visit the US, be it
> disneyworld or visiting freinds or whatever has to apply for a visa and
> has to travel to the US embassy in London and be subjected to a full
> interview all at their own time and cost.
There is indeed a little confusion. The vast majority of British
Citizens are entitled to use the Visa Waiver program to visit the
USA for up to 90 days at a time for business or pleasure. They
fill in a short form during the flight. It costs about $6 which
is hidden in all the other flight costs. They do not need to visit
the US embassy or be subjected to a full interview.
> 2. If the person was ever
> arrested for whatever reason they will just get knocked back. I dont
> mean charged - I mean arrested full stop - even if they did nothing or
> was simply held for questioning for something they had no involvement
> in.
Nonsense. If they committed a Crime Involving Moral Turpitude
(which has a wierd and wonderful definition in USA law) they
may not use the Visa Waiver and must apply for a visa before
travelling. Anyone who applies for a visa must declare all
arrests for any reason. They will be investigated, and in many
cases a visa will be granted.
Apr 6th 2004, 12:24 am
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
stevelisaw <member203@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> From what I understand you now have to have
> pictures on your driver's licences in the UK......this is a change from
> the way it use to be.....so does that mean you feel offended and now
> will refuse to drive......I think not.
Then you think wrongly.
>
> From what I understand you now have to have
> pictures on your driver's licences in the UK......this is a change from
> the way it use to be.....so does that mean you feel offended and now
> will refuse to drive......I think not.
Then you think wrongly.
Apr 6th 2004, 12:28 am
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:15 -0400, L D Jones <[email protected]>
wrote:
>LithiaSpgs wrote:
>>
>> It is not aimed at English citizens but we need to know who is coming into the
>> country and when they leave. It is only fair. It is not that big a deal and the
>> stuff is destroyed once you exit.
>I have trouble believing that a government will destroy information it
>has collected. They will probably save it just becausee they can
Anyone with a brain knows they won't destroy any information.
_________________________________________________
Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
_________________________________________________
wrote:
>LithiaSpgs wrote:
>>
>> It is not aimed at English citizens but we need to know who is coming into the
>> country and when they leave. It is only fair. It is not that big a deal and the
>> stuff is destroyed once you exit.
>I have trouble believing that a government will destroy information it
>has collected. They will probably save it just becausee they can
Anyone with a brain knows they won't destroy any information.
_________________________________________________
Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
_________________________________________________
Apr 6th 2004, 12:28 am
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
On 05 Apr 2004 22:19:34 GMT, [email protected] (LithiaSpgs) wrote:
>>I have trouble believing that a government will destroy information it
>>has collected. They will probably save it just becausee they can
>The law requires the information be destroyed once you leave the country. It is
>not kept nor is it forwarded to any foreign country.
Prove it!!!
_________________________________________________
Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
_________________________________________________
>>I have trouble believing that a government will destroy information it
>>has collected. They will probably save it just becausee they can
>The law requires the information be destroyed once you leave the country. It is
>not kept nor is it forwarded to any foreign country.
Prove it!!!
_________________________________________________
Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
_________________________________________________
Apr 6th 2004, 12:29 am
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:58:10 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>Its a real shame when you suddenly realise that something you once
>believed in turns out to be nothing like you thought or remembered it
>...
>USA - once I believed it stood for freedom and truth
Americans used to think so too.
>now - I realise a lot of its citizens are dumber than a truckload of
>mules - there President (just like his father) is a sub-educated,
>unitelligent criminal who will do anything to stay in power (or gain
>it - remember Florida?).
>and all the while the average US citizen wants, needs and does believe
>that there country is doing 'the right thing' .. or perhaps they dont
>give a shit so long as they are ok (guzzling up most of the world
>gasoline and screw the enviroment and its blatant support of Israel
>are two examples) .. yes a lot of people hate America because it IS SO
>ARROGANT ....
>I don't hate Americans - far from it - but I no longer support your
>president or his policies - let's hope the next president is a saner
>man and wants to work with other countries in the world.
>I suppose the most telling thing is that around 2/3rds of Americans
>dont even have passports - speaks volumes really!
_________________________________________________
Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
_________________________________________________
>Its a real shame when you suddenly realise that something you once
>believed in turns out to be nothing like you thought or remembered it
>...
>USA - once I believed it stood for freedom and truth
Americans used to think so too.
>now - I realise a lot of its citizens are dumber than a truckload of
>mules - there President (just like his father) is a sub-educated,
>unitelligent criminal who will do anything to stay in power (or gain
>it - remember Florida?).
>and all the while the average US citizen wants, needs and does believe
>that there country is doing 'the right thing' .. or perhaps they dont
>give a shit so long as they are ok (guzzling up most of the world
>gasoline and screw the enviroment and its blatant support of Israel
>are two examples) .. yes a lot of people hate America because it IS SO
>ARROGANT ....
>I don't hate Americans - far from it - but I no longer support your
>president or his policies - let's hope the next president is a saner
>man and wants to work with other countries in the world.
>I suppose the most telling thing is that around 2/3rds of Americans
>dont even have passports - speaks volumes really!
_________________________________________________
Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
_________________________________________________
Apr 6th 2004, 2:56 am
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
There are none so blind as those that won't see!
I think you are a little too trusting of your government.
"Maniack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:15 -0400, L D Jones <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >LithiaSpgs wrote:
> >>
> >> It is not aimed at English citizens but we need to know who is coming
into the
> >> country and when they leave. It is only fair. It is not that big a deal
and the
> >> stuff is destroyed once you exit.
> >
> >I have trouble believing that a government will destroy information it
> >has collected. They will probably save it just becausee they can
> Anyone with a brain knows they won't destroy any information.
> _________________________________________________
> Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
> _________________________________________________
I think you are a little too trusting of your government.
"Maniack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:00:15 -0400, L D Jones <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >LithiaSpgs wrote:
> >>
> >> It is not aimed at English citizens but we need to know who is coming
into the
> >> country and when they leave. It is only fair. It is not that big a deal
and the
> >> stuff is destroyed once you exit.
> >
> >I have trouble believing that a government will destroy information it
> >has collected. They will probably save it just becausee they can
> Anyone with a brain knows they won't destroy any information.
> _________________________________________________
> Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate !!!
> _________________________________________________
Apr 6th 2004, 4:02 am
#74
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 217
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
Iraq has nothing to do with this. UK went to war to
serve its own interests not those of the US.
serve its own interests not those of the US.
Originally posted by Bob Todd
> You pay the $6 when you fly as well. It's
> included in your airplane ticket. The $6 is used to cover the
> administrative costs of processing your I-94. Should the American tax
> payer have to foot the bill for your shopping trip?
The point is that the Canadians didn't need to fill out an I94 and I did,
the Canadians have not backed you up in Iraq but we have, are you following
me here?
> News Flash: You
> are not a Canadian.
Did I say I was, if you were paying attention you would realise this thread
is about treatment of UK vivitors. Hint: read the subject line.
> News Flash: Canadians who need an I-94 for going
> to school, working, and getting married also pay the $6 for the form.
I wasn't going to school, working or getting married.
> If you don't like it, stay home. Oh, and thanks for your $6. Notice
> that you still paid it.
So I should have refused and screwed it up for everyone, no thanks I'm
British, not selfish.
> You pay the $6 when you fly as well. It's
> included in your airplane ticket. The $6 is used to cover the
> administrative costs of processing your I-94. Should the American tax
> payer have to foot the bill for your shopping trip?
The point is that the Canadians didn't need to fill out an I94 and I did,
the Canadians have not backed you up in Iraq but we have, are you following
me here?
> News Flash: You
> are not a Canadian.
Did I say I was, if you were paying attention you would realise this thread
is about treatment of UK vivitors. Hint: read the subject line.
> News Flash: Canadians who need an I-94 for going
> to school, working, and getting married also pay the $6 for the form.
I wasn't going to school, working or getting married.
> If you don't like it, stay home. Oh, and thanks for your $6. Notice
> that you still paid it.
So I should have refused and screwed it up for everyone, no thanks I'm
British, not selfish.
Apr 6th 2004, 4:18 am
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: America loses the plot - and UK tourists!
LithiaSpgs wrote:
> >WE LIKE paying taxes so that we have some service. WE LIKE electing despots
> >for
> >several terms - that is why we elect majority governments.
> So do some parts of the USA. Ever been to New York? San Fransisco?
Yup! Been there, done that. The parliamentary system is different from the US
system. We don't have provinces with a senate. Our provinces don't have
constitutions that are constantly the source of endless litigation.
> >While we may share some values, the culture of the two countries (if there is
> >such
> >a thing as Canadian culture and US culture) is different - not better, just
> >different.
> Are you kidding me?? In what ways? Having spent much time in Canada, having
> married a Canadian and having Canadian TV in our home (Expressvu) in Atlanta,
> tells me that we are the SAME culturally. Same language, same accent and, while
> Canadians spell some words funny (like Colour), the speak them just like we do.
> Same TV shows too.
TV shows represent culture? I suppose yoghurt represents culture too.
Speaking of words spelled funny - color and honor are real hoots! As for
pronouncing English, it is obvious that while you have married a canadian you are
still no linguistic expert. If so, how do you explain the differences in "accent"
between Minnesota, texas, da Bronx, georgia, etc?? Eh??
> >Values are different too. Drinking is legal if you are 18 and Canadians
> >generally
> >don't argue with that.
> That is because you don't have busy bodies like MADD over there. It used to be
> 18 here too (and in fact it still is unofficially because 18 year olds can
> enter bars and once inside, getting a beer is not hard).
Oh, yes, I forgot! The common good is sluffed off as "busy bodies". How about all
those pious types who tried to invoke "prohibition"?? Now there is that rascally
group that is telling the gay/lesbian types that they don't exist in terms of a
long-term "marriage". An unofficial relationship is tolerated, but.... See
below.
> >Canada allows "gay" marrage, with not much fuss (yet),
> >while we all read what happens in the USA.
> It depends on where in the USA you are. What is accpetable in New York or San
> Fransisco is not in Birmingham or Wichita. The problem with gay marriage is
> that marriage has always been recognized in all states if performed anywhere in
> the country- or out of the country in my case. We were married in Canada and
> Georgia recognizes me and my wife as a legally married couple. There are places
> in the USA like Boston, NYC and San Fransisco where gay marriage is perfectly
> OK. The problem is that other places like Alabama or Kansas have a differing
> view and do not wish to recognize such unions. So we have to work it out to
> please all people (I personally think Civil Unions are the way to go).
And so marriage "standards" seem to be different between the two cultures (sorry, I
mean nations :-) ) I hope the two of you live in marital harmony until death
ends your relationship. If the two of you are in a symbiotic relationship (aka
marital bliss) then both of you are not just lucky and blessed!
> >WE LIKE paying taxes so that we have some service. WE LIKE electing despots
> >for
> >several terms - that is why we elect majority governments.
> So do some parts of the USA. Ever been to New York? San Fransisco?
Yup! Been there, done that. The parliamentary system is different from the US
system. We don't have provinces with a senate. Our provinces don't have
constitutions that are constantly the source of endless litigation.
> >While we may share some values, the culture of the two countries (if there is
> >such
> >a thing as Canadian culture and US culture) is different - not better, just
> >different.
> Are you kidding me?? In what ways? Having spent much time in Canada, having
> married a Canadian and having Canadian TV in our home (Expressvu) in Atlanta,
> tells me that we are the SAME culturally. Same language, same accent and, while
> Canadians spell some words funny (like Colour), the speak them just like we do.
> Same TV shows too.
TV shows represent culture? I suppose yoghurt represents culture too.
Speaking of words spelled funny - color and honor are real hoots! As for
pronouncing English, it is obvious that while you have married a canadian you are
still no linguistic expert. If so, how do you explain the differences in "accent"
between Minnesota, texas, da Bronx, georgia, etc?? Eh??
> >Values are different too. Drinking is legal if you are 18 and Canadians
> >generally
> >don't argue with that.
> That is because you don't have busy bodies like MADD over there. It used to be
> 18 here too (and in fact it still is unofficially because 18 year olds can
> enter bars and once inside, getting a beer is not hard).
Oh, yes, I forgot! The common good is sluffed off as "busy bodies". How about all
those pious types who tried to invoke "prohibition"?? Now there is that rascally
group that is telling the gay/lesbian types that they don't exist in terms of a
long-term "marriage". An unofficial relationship is tolerated, but.... See
below.
> >Canada allows "gay" marrage, with not much fuss (yet),
> >while we all read what happens in the USA.
> It depends on where in the USA you are. What is accpetable in New York or San
> Fransisco is not in Birmingham or Wichita. The problem with gay marriage is
> that marriage has always been recognized in all states if performed anywhere in
> the country- or out of the country in my case. We were married in Canada and
> Georgia recognizes me and my wife as a legally married couple. There are places
> in the USA like Boston, NYC and San Fransisco where gay marriage is perfectly
> OK. The problem is that other places like Alabama or Kansas have a differing
> view and do not wish to recognize such unions. So we have to work it out to
> please all people (I personally think Civil Unions are the way to go).
And so marriage "standards" seem to be different between the two cultures (sorry, I
mean nations :-) ) I hope the two of you live in marital harmony until death
ends your relationship. If the two of you are in a symbiotic relationship (aka
marital bliss) then both of you are not just lucky and blessed!