Originally Posted by Nu-Shooz

My teenagers are bored to tears in Perth. Their Aussie friends who have lived here all their lives say it is too damn boring too and can't wait to leave. Thats from a teenagers prospective though.

I think there is much more to do and see in the UK, even if the weather is crap! Not syaing Perth is crap, but very bland on the entertainment side. Sun and beaches just isn't fulfulling enough.

Originally Posted by woodyinoz

Stupid isn't it.

Originally Posted by ShozInOz

I think that is fairly accurate perception for many people. Here's my take on your stages.

TODDLERS: Being in the toddler stage (as parents) with this weather (i.e. months of bad weather, excluding April) is no fun at all. I know that day to day life back in Sydney was and would be very significantly more enjoyable. Toddlers can drive you nuts, and the ability to get them outdoors is simply a sanity issue.

TEENS: When it comes to teenage years, I agree that the UK has loads to offer. There is far more to see, do and explore in Sydney than most of the UKs towns. Sure you can get around, though train travel is not exactly cheap, and I did not get out of my region as a teenager (no train station in my town for a start). It has lots to offer, and lots to worry about. From a parent's point of view, I'd take Australia for teens because I perceive it to be a healthier society overall. The risk taking behaviours, and associated causes, of UK teenagers is depressing. The recent Unicef report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp..._nn_unicef.pdf and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6359363.stm) places the UK at the bottom of a list of 21 developed nations for child well-being as a whole, and bottom of the list of countries also for the specific issues that matter most to us (i.e. that can be least in our control), such as relationships, behaviours and risks, and subjective wellbeing. I was suprised that more of a fuss was not made of this. So for teenagers, well, if they are very fortunate then the UK is a great place to be inspired and to grow. Shame about the rest.

STARTING A FAMILY: We had such a good start in Sydney in terms of the hospital. The contrast with most people we know who had a baby recently in the UK could not be more stark - though that may just be the people we know. The public attitude in the UK to breastfeeding in public is a national disgrace, and shows how far there is still to go. State support otherwise is good in both countries I think. But personally, I am not excited at the thought of bringing up a child here. For some, the family support during toddlerhood is crucial. Sadly, we live hours away from any family, and they live in 5 regions of the UK, so we see most of them only occasionally for a few hours at a time - they are certainly no 'support' as such. Though our daughter does love and remember them. What we also find now is that we are so skint, depite earning much more. For us this is partly due to so many taxes and overheads, and partly because we tend to have to pay now to get out and about due to the weather.

DEVELOPING A CAREER: I agree here. Many more opportunities for professionals in th UK. I would not have had the career to date that I have had I have started in Australia. For some though that may mean living in London though to have more opportunities than Sydney/Melbourne. The closeness to Europe can be a major advantage also.

RETIRING: I agree again here. I would hate to be an average pensioner in the UK.

What is frustrating for me that the the UK could be such a good place to live, and far better than Australia. It has an incredible geography and there is so much more going on (in the cities). You are at the centre of everything and close to so many places. Unfortunately, the social decline, in my eyes, is severe. And as for the weather...well, it's sunny today at least.

So assuming we return to Australia in 2008 for the 'starting a family' and 'toddler' stages, we may be back when our children are developing their careers!

Originally Posted by ShozInOz

TEENS: When it comes to teenage years, I agree that the UK has loads to offer...

Originally Posted by Hutch

I think with teens there's the potential to be piss-bored anywhere on the planet. I grew up just north of London and totally hated the place, despite the myriad things to 'do'. I don't think that feeling of boredom left me until I left home and was master of my own destiny.

Originally Posted by Exile

Hi Shoz,

Very interesting post, as usual. I guess nomadism could be the answer to our search for the perfect place!

I’m sure I am not alone among those of us who have followed your story and are thinking of moving back who find your comments very interesting (and possibly a bit alarming!).

I don’t think it’s because of the negatives about the UK, but more because we have watched you carefully weigh up all the factors and consider their importance to you from so many angles, reach conclusions with real conviction, and then appear to say (very honestly and bravely, I might add) that you got it slightly wrong! And you’re a psychologist! What chance is there for the rest of us?

The problem for me is that I could see myself doing the same thing, but I can’t really afford a ping-pong as my kids are getting too old (and my Mrs would kill me).

Could it be a case of choosing the place that is least bad, which for us nomads will always seem to be the place where we are currently not?

Chris

PS Interesting comments on having babies in the UK vs in Sydney. My oldest daughter was born in Sheffield (Jessops) and I couldn't fault the care, before, during, and after. I wonder if it's a regional thing, or if things have gone downhill in 9 years.

Originally Posted by ShozInOz

Hi Chris

I would say I got it right with the information I had and position I was in at the time, though am happy to admit to any errors of thinking. Had we not moved back, I believe we would probably still be wondering whether we should move back to the UK! Also my wife's Mum died just before we returned, so returning has allowed my wife conditions to grieve that she may not have had in Sydney. Everyone's situation is different. Bear in mind we have no family or close friends nearby, we are both very attached to the weather, we have a toddler, we are not rich, etc. Also in Australia, we lived in Sydney. So my situation can't really be compared to many people's.

My thoughts on the UK remain mostly despite our situation, as they are thoughts on UK society as a whole. I am not particularly patriotic. I don't get the whole "cut me in half and you get the St George's flag" thing. I am a human being seeking a nice environment, wherever that is. I would sum it up as interesting but hard. There is so much to see and do in the UK, and all withing a fairly small place. But there are 60 million people in this small place. All of the travel that we envisaged to make the most of the interesting part has not come to fruition, or else has been hard going when it has. Going anywhere on a bank holiday is a bad idea. We were looking forward to buzzing round Europe. We went to Hanover (Celle); it was pretty much to me just another city, and the weather was awful. I went to Amsterdam; it was just another city. I went to Paris; it was just another city, and the weather was awful, and it was stressful. I guess at my stage of life, and with my personality, I just don't need it. What I want is to be able to reduce stress, and travelling - with or without young children, but especially with - increases stress.

Originally Posted by king kong

I to have read your threads and others too and i think for me personally you have nailed it here for some of us nomads anyway .
That word stress is the one im looking for ,i must admit i find australian life in general as boring as bat s--te and i always enjoy my time working and socialising in the uk and i think its because im so busy getting somewhere and busy working ,it seems to motivate me to get my arse off the couch .
I suppose each to their own ,i actually thrive on motivated stress and dont wish to slow down .Good luck on what ever happens .

Originally Posted by Tableland

If these forums leave one impression, it is that the kind of person who emigrates is also the kind of person who might never be happy where they are, and this is because they wouldn't have emigrated in the first place if they were not this type of person. The wanderlust is an inherent feature of our personalities, and so to a certain extent we might all be doomed to wander forever!

In Britain, Australia looks open and bright, and sunny, and warm, and low-stress because of the low-population, etc. In Australia, Britain looks busy and interesting, cheap flights to Paris, lots of history, etc.

If you saw only the good things about a place you wouldn't have left Britain in the first place. One thing I know for a fact though, Paris, etc. isn't as amazing as it seems from afar, and when you get there you realise the shop keepers are rude, the traffic is lethal, and the Metro stinks of piddle.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by king kong

All true ,but its in the human nature to seek adventure and hopefully change for the better .
I never really left the uk because i didnt like it ,i left because i had a chance to experience another way of life which after 20 years i regret doing .
My eldest has returned to the uk and my youngest is following in 2 years and we wont be sticking around to lokng after .We have given aussie a good go and raised two good lads here ,but if they dont want to be here it seems to me it has all been a pointless exercise .
As said heaps of times here ''great for kiddies '' but really s--te for young adults .

Originally Posted by TraceyW

<snip>

There are pro's and con's with both countries, if only we could mesh them together, we would come up with perfection!