Hi there - thank you for your considered post - As previously mentioned the pdc's form a security part of the deal - they are not be cashed in the first instance in accordance with the contractual requirements of the project. As you mention, it is indeed a slightly complex set-up. Ultimately, will have to weigh the risks/reward ratio of the deal to see if worthwhile pursuing.

To help me do that, really need a specific answer to the a specific question - which I asked previously - I guess I need to go down the legal route to verify....thanks once again, foxes.

Foxes, have you had a look for this company on the Commercial Register?
Also, you mention one partner is going to act as guarantor exclusive of other
Director(s)' liability.....hmmmmm don't know any Articles & Memos which operate thus.....
You know, ppl might be McKinsey or Harvard but if there are bells ringing in one's head and you ain't got that gut feeling....keep the denaro in the back pocket and walk away
As regards UK juris over a crime committed in UAE(depends where the conspiracy to defraud originally starts though)- to the letter of the law, there may be legal repercussions but tbh, given the amount of indigenoius crime-specially financial, you would get lip service...
In a civil perspective,maybe you could self fund and pursue a Breach of Contract but there is such a thing called 'volens' which means kinda putting yourself in a victim position ...i.e if you go for a walk on the railway line and get hit by a train the compensation claim(probably to your next of kin) if founded would be conditional on your voluntary position on the tracks....
You know it's a daft thing to walk on the railway,you know PDC's are an unusual m.o of doing business..........

Couldn't agree more Eva.

I like everyone else initially cried 'foul' when foxes first started this thread.
How anyone would be sucked in by a PDC, would be beyond comprehension.

However, from what Foxes has stated, there is a lot more to the deal than meets the eye.
It comes down to how well you know the people.

I've gone into past deals in Europe effectively bankrolled by business associates (who were to benefit if the deal came off), when I haven't had the GG to be able to produce the necessary upfront for a large amount of security.

It sounds as if this could be a similar situation.
Push come to shove, it's a case of knowing the people involved. Have you dealt with them before and have they always came through?
Only you as an individual should know from your 'gut feeling' whether it feels right or wrong.

If you feel there is more to be lost than gained, then walk. Only do the deal if the odds are stacked well in your favour.

Foxes, I know you are savvy but 'tis these highlighted areas I would concern myself with.....

1.If the returns are so damned great why are they not turning potential investors away? why do they need the little carrot of the PDC??
Also,how have they asked to transfer monies? A T.T. as you probably know can clear in 3 days so a two week turnaround on a PDC is plenty times to do the dirty if they aren't kosher.



2.Suppose you were a partner in a Company, would you be happy with your Partner talking on that liabilty and risking your Company's trading integrity if it went pearshaped- for me this is the biggest query in the deal...


Your call though, best of with it.

Hi Eva, many thanks for this, v. useful. The one point i would say is that are pdc really that unusual in buisness over here in the uae? It is standard practise to ask for pdc for rental purposes as well as loan payments i believe. I have been advised that any cheque which is not honoured is automatically reportable to the police here in the uae and subject to criminal proceedings. I know this is not the case in the UK with bounce cheques hence ref: to the specific question - which you have given me a valuable insight to as to the legal interpretations of such an incident between two different countries. Thanks again. Foxes.

Hi there - Yes, this is pretty much the same situation - having v. close personal knowledge of all parties involved over number of years. However due to the ''uncertainity'' ( Indie mentioned ''waasta'' earlier - thanks !) of the the ways laws are introduced, implemented and enforced here in the UAE, i need the assurance that if for one reason or another, the unexpected does happen, i have legal recourse in both the UAE and UK. It seems i have in the UAE. I have spoken to the UK embassy over here who have indicated the same as Eva - but reccomended legal confirmation - which i dont really want to go to the expense of if i can avoid it. thanks, foxes

1. the pdc is security only. payment is to be made via TT with a pdc as security only. pdc to be returned back to individual once TT is completed or worst case, pdc is to be banked if TT does not go ahead for one reason or another.

2. the individual is my contact (and partner) within this new company whereby current liquidity issues is causing a few issues in closing profitable orders. This is where the 'high'' risk is involved - not the pdc's.
However I still want assurance of status under uk law hence the question of re-course of back to the uk in the case of the pdc returning unpaid here in the UAE. Call it a form of due diligence i guess.

really appreciate your input - will let you know what happens.

Foxes,
The point I would make about PDC in regard to rent and personal loans(invariably pertinent to rent,cars or large pieces of furniture in UAE) is that in a sense 'the bargain has been concluded' i.e a price has been agreed and there has been 'delivery of goods' -something to show for the PDC, be it title and the right to occupy an apartment or having possession of a porche crossfire or sleeping on a fabuloso memory mattress in a bed fit for a King .

Anyways, as I said, you are savvy and I don't have the full facts so cut off point for me.
I think there are many, many great JV's/investment opportunities out there-specially in AD-just waiting to be taken-so long as they are well researched. Fingers crossed it's a winner for you if you take the plunge.
Good Luck.

eta..just one other thing ..you say you have known the other party for yonks and is tried and tested in biz...why still the doubt then?
unless you are trying to eliminate every risk in a risky business-which investment is. Again best of luck.

this is the area of the unknown - it is a new company and not an area of my expertise ! i just have to clearly distinguish between personal friendship and buisness here....

Yikes! Bad combination.
Just remember there is no sentiment in business.
Keep us posted.

Foxes: If you can't afford an hour with a solicitor, 100BD... Can you afford the risk?

Another possible angle..

Is there physical goods at the heart of this deal?
If so, the obvious possibility of taking ownership of said goods until payment is made..

Just a thought.

another idea would be to have hard cash/gold/ diamonds or any other pyhsical thing with an equivalent value to be placed with an independant third party, ie a lawyer. in the event of non performance by a set date the cash/gold whatever is automatically yours.
Far far safer than a post dated cheque which as we have all said is virtually worthless.

IF and its a big if, your deal is for real and the persons are liquid then this shouldnt pose any issue to the people willing to give you a post dated cheque.
IF they are unwilling to do this then I'd suspect they are broke and that any post dated cheque would definately be worthless.
From their point of view its the same amount of money down as a form of security so why wouldnt they do this if they are confident and for real.


actually thinking about it this would be the only way i'd proceed with this deal if it were me, no need to worry about cheques etc and if they balk at the idea of a hard cash security deposit you wil immediately know they are full of shit