OK So we did a runner......
Aug 21st 2009, 1:28 pm
#151
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 758
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Another piece of information I can give you all... I've been told by someone working in the legal department (my partners friend) of a major UAE bank, that I have nothing to worry about regarding the repayment of my bank loan. He told her to tell me to forget about paying it (my loan is with the bank he works for) and I will never ever face problems as long as I do not return to the UAE. I will ask more questions when I get a chance. I will try to find out his exact position within the department.
Aug 21st 2009, 2:08 pm
#152
Bored liberal
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Over there ----->
Posts: 13,713
Re: OK So we did a runner......
So, I've been reading this thread comfortably ensconced in my bedroom, drinking a beautiful glass of red and listening to my dog snore.
I left a well-known media company and left behind Dhs150k in debt. When the bank got in touch with me I refused to pay. My reasons for this were twofold: 1) risk goes along with profit and the bank assumes some level of risk when they advance credit. If the bank wasn't willing to assume that level of risk then they shouldn't have advanced me the credit. 2) that money stayed in the country. I didn't put the cash in a money belt and slip out of Dubai better off than I came. I fell on hard times and, yes, was more concerned about me and mine than I was with the bank, the banking sector or the fat ***** who invest in either. Standard Chartered can take the hit.
For me it wasn't a moral consideration because I wasn't borrowing the money from a chap who was going to go out of business if I defaulted.
Also, I called my lawyer in the US and talked to him about the consequences of skipping town. He said the consequences were non existent compared to those of staying in the UAE. First, he tells me, in the US at least, the only thing the bank can do is sell the debt at .30 on the dollar to a US based company or subsidiary of the creditor. Also, they can't, by US law come after my home, anything I use to make a living or my retirement savings. So, my house, my car, my computers and my 401k are all safe. Also, they need to get a judgment in a US court, with a US judge or jury. The chances of Arabs getting a judgment against me are nil.
Do I feel bad? No. Well, a little. It was hard to get references for my new work, but I sorted it out. Would I do it the same way again? No. I would have just stayed home.
I keep reading the posts from admon and I keep thinking "what a fool." Admon reminds me of my grandfather and I'll bet he's from that same century of gold-backed securities. His loyalty is misplaced. He is looking out for all the wrong people. When you are deciding whether to flee or not you need think about: your kids, your spouse, yourself—that's all.
On another note, I just sold a book about my time in the UAE and the advance is enough to cover my debt and then some. Am I going to pay off my debts? It depends on whether it would be better to fight it in court. If I can get it settled for less than I owe then that's what I'll do. It's a business decision and not a referendum on my morality. Assets-liabilities=worth. It's that simple. No, I don't kick dogs, trip old people, cheat on my taxes or steal.
I'll let you know what happens, but I suspect nothing will. I suspect it'll never see the inside of a courtroom and I will never have to pay it back.
In the meantime I'll stay away from Dubai when I fly to India and remember my time with good friends there fondly.
I left a well-known media company and left behind Dhs150k in debt. When the bank got in touch with me I refused to pay. My reasons for this were twofold: 1) risk goes along with profit and the bank assumes some level of risk when they advance credit. If the bank wasn't willing to assume that level of risk then they shouldn't have advanced me the credit. 2) that money stayed in the country. I didn't put the cash in a money belt and slip out of Dubai better off than I came. I fell on hard times and, yes, was more concerned about me and mine than I was with the bank, the banking sector or the fat ***** who invest in either. Standard Chartered can take the hit.
For me it wasn't a moral consideration because I wasn't borrowing the money from a chap who was going to go out of business if I defaulted.
Also, I called my lawyer in the US and talked to him about the consequences of skipping town. He said the consequences were non existent compared to those of staying in the UAE. First, he tells me, in the US at least, the only thing the bank can do is sell the debt at .30 on the dollar to a US based company or subsidiary of the creditor. Also, they can't, by US law come after my home, anything I use to make a living or my retirement savings. So, my house, my car, my computers and my 401k are all safe. Also, they need to get a judgment in a US court, with a US judge or jury. The chances of Arabs getting a judgment against me are nil.
Do I feel bad? No. Well, a little. It was hard to get references for my new work, but I sorted it out. Would I do it the same way again? No. I would have just stayed home.
I keep reading the posts from admon and I keep thinking "what a fool." Admon reminds me of my grandfather and I'll bet he's from that same century of gold-backed securities. His loyalty is misplaced. He is looking out for all the wrong people. When you are deciding whether to flee or not you need think about: your kids, your spouse, yourself—that's all.
On another note, I just sold a book about my time in the UAE and the advance is enough to cover my debt and then some. Am I going to pay off my debts? It depends on whether it would be better to fight it in court. If I can get it settled for less than I owe then that's what I'll do. It's a business decision and not a referendum on my morality. Assets-liabilities=worth. It's that simple. No, I don't kick dogs, trip old people, cheat on my taxes or steal.
I'll let you know what happens, but I suspect nothing will. I suspect it'll never see the inside of a courtroom and I will never have to pay it back.
In the meantime I'll stay away from Dubai when I fly to India and remember my time with good friends there fondly.
-
Aug 21st 2009, 2:57 pm
#153
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: OK So we did a runner......
So, I've been reading this thread comfortably ensconced in my bedroom, drinking a beautiful glass of red and listening to my dog snore.
I left a well-known media company and left behind Dhs150k in debt. When the bank got in touch with me I refused to pay. My reasons for this were twofold: 1) risk goes along with profit and the bank assumes some level of risk when they advance credit. If the bank wasn't willing to assume that level of risk then they shouldn't have advanced me the credit. 2) that money stayed in the country. I didn't put the cash in a money belt and slip out of Dubai better off than I came. I fell on hard times and, yes, was more concerned about me and mine than I was with the bank, the banking sector or the fat ***** who invest in either. Standard Chartered can take the hit.
For me it wasn't a moral consideration because I wasn't borrowing the money from a chap who was going to go out of business if I defaulted.
Also, I called my lawyer in the US and talked to him about the consequences of skipping town. He said the consequences were non existent compared to those of staying in the UAE. First, he tells me, in the US at least, the only thing the bank can do is sell the debt at .30 on the dollar to a US based company or subsidiary of the creditor. Also, they can't, by US law come after my home, anything I use to make a living or my retirement savings. So, my house, my car, my computers and my 401k are all safe. Also, they need to get a judgment in a US court, with a US judge or jury. The chances of Arabs getting a judgment against me are nil.
Do I feel bad? No. Well, a little. It was hard to get references for my new work, but I sorted it out. Would I do it the same way again? No. I would have just stayed home.
I keep reading the posts from admon and I keep thinking "what a fool." Admon reminds me of my grandfather and I'll bet he's from that same century of gold-backed securities. His loyalty is misplaced. He is looking out for all the wrong people. When you are deciding whether to flee or not you need think about: your kids, your spouse, yourself—that's all.
On another note, I just sold a book about my time in the UAE and the advance is enough to cover my debt and then some. Am I going to pay off my debts? It depends on whether it would be better to fight it in court. If I can get it settled for less than I owe then that's what I'll do. It's a business decision and not a referendum on my morality. Assets-liabilities=worth. It's that simple. No, I don't kick dogs, trip old people, cheat on my taxes or steal.
I'll let you know what happens, but I suspect nothing will. I suspect it'll never see the inside of a courtroom and I will never have to pay it back.
In the meantime I'll stay away from Dubai when I fly to India and remember my time with good friends there fondly.
I left a well-known media company and left behind Dhs150k in debt. When the bank got in touch with me I refused to pay. My reasons for this were twofold: 1) risk goes along with profit and the bank assumes some level of risk when they advance credit. If the bank wasn't willing to assume that level of risk then they shouldn't have advanced me the credit. 2) that money stayed in the country. I didn't put the cash in a money belt and slip out of Dubai better off than I came. I fell on hard times and, yes, was more concerned about me and mine than I was with the bank, the banking sector or the fat ***** who invest in either. Standard Chartered can take the hit.
For me it wasn't a moral consideration because I wasn't borrowing the money from a chap who was going to go out of business if I defaulted.
Also, I called my lawyer in the US and talked to him about the consequences of skipping town. He said the consequences were non existent compared to those of staying in the UAE. First, he tells me, in the US at least, the only thing the bank can do is sell the debt at .30 on the dollar to a US based company or subsidiary of the creditor. Also, they can't, by US law come after my home, anything I use to make a living or my retirement savings. So, my house, my car, my computers and my 401k are all safe. Also, they need to get a judgment in a US court, with a US judge or jury. The chances of Arabs getting a judgment against me are nil.
Do I feel bad? No. Well, a little. It was hard to get references for my new work, but I sorted it out. Would I do it the same way again? No. I would have just stayed home.
I keep reading the posts from admon and I keep thinking "what a fool." Admon reminds me of my grandfather and I'll bet he's from that same century of gold-backed securities. His loyalty is misplaced. He is looking out for all the wrong people. When you are deciding whether to flee or not you need think about: your kids, your spouse, yourself—that's all.
On another note, I just sold a book about my time in the UAE and the advance is enough to cover my debt and then some. Am I going to pay off my debts? It depends on whether it would be better to fight it in court. If I can get it settled for less than I owe then that's what I'll do. It's a business decision and not a referendum on my morality. Assets-liabilities=worth. It's that simple. No, I don't kick dogs, trip old people, cheat on my taxes or steal.
I'll let you know what happens, but I suspect nothing will. I suspect it'll never see the inside of a courtroom and I will never have to pay it back.
In the meantime I'll stay away from Dubai when I fly to India and remember my time with good friends there fondly.
Another setback is that you will be confined to your home country (I assume it is USA). If you like to immigrate or take a job in any other country they will ask you for the police report of the countries where you lived earlier.
If you are not an US citizen, but merely a permanent resident, you will have a trouble to be naturalized. The only option would be to 'forget' your offence in the UAE, but it can reemerge anytime. Besides that, you can expect that UAE and USA will exchange all information relevant to security of travel. And you will be not so confident each time you travel back to US and face the immigration officer.
Can you immagine you get a nice job in a nice company... And suddenly there is a business trip to one of the GCC countries. What are you going to tell your new boss???
So, this issue is not at all naive as your US lawyer thinks.
Aug 21st 2009, 4:47 pm
#154
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Disneyland, Dubai
Posts: 15,887
Aug 21st 2009, 7:43 pm
#156
Banned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Please, do not be so self confident and avoid flying to India. Very often the airplanes have emergency landing in one of the GCC. Some false alarm or some crazy or sick passanger on board and you will be welcome to local prison as soon as they check your data. They will not forget you even 20 AED not to mention higher amounts.
Another setback is that you will be confined to your home country (I assume it is USA). If you like to immigrate or take a job in any other country they will ask you for the police report of the countries where you lived earlier.
If you are not an US citizen, but merely a permanent resident, you will have a trouble to be naturalized. The only option would be to 'forget' your offence in the UAE, but it can reemerge anytime. Besides that, you can expect that UAE and USA will exchange all information relevant to security of travel. And you will be not so confident each time you travel back to US and face the immigration officer.
Can you immagine you get a nice job in a nice company... And suddenly there is a business trip to one of the GCC countries. What are you going to tell your new boss???
So, this issue is not at all naive as your US lawyer thinks.
Another setback is that you will be confined to your home country (I assume it is USA). If you like to immigrate or take a job in any other country they will ask you for the police report of the countries where you lived earlier.
If you are not an US citizen, but merely a permanent resident, you will have a trouble to be naturalized. The only option would be to 'forget' your offence in the UAE, but it can reemerge anytime. Besides that, you can expect that UAE and USA will exchange all information relevant to security of travel. And you will be not so confident each time you travel back to US and face the immigration officer.
Can you immagine you get a nice job in a nice company... And suddenly there is a business trip to one of the GCC countries. What are you going to tell your new boss???
So, this issue is not at all naive as your US lawyer thinks.
You should get some perspective, who gives a two tosses about the banks when your facing time in jail.
No ones perfect, we all make mistakes and putting people in jail for getting into debt due to redundancies is NOT RIGHT!
As the poster states if the banks were foolish enough to give credit cards they can accept the risk and take the fall...
Aug 21st 2009, 8:01 pm
#157
Banned
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14
Re: OK So we did a runner......
I agree. It is only in the Middle East that not repaying a debt is considered a crime. It is not recognized by other countries not will it effect you getting naturalized either as it is not a 'moral' crime.
I do believe that everyone should be responsible for their debts and paying them off but facing jail time is just ridiculous. I think they did the right thing getting out whilst they could...they keep you in there until someone on the outside can pay it off for you.
I do believe that everyone should be responsible for their debts and paying them off but facing jail time is just ridiculous. I think they did the right thing getting out whilst they could...they keep you in there until someone on the outside can pay it off for you.
Aug 21st 2009, 8:09 pm
#158
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: OK So we did a runner......
This guy did the right thing, i doubt he has ANY intention of getting on a plane to India in the near future, what woudl be the point. Anyways, if he did have to go to India i'm sure he'd rather take the risk instead of sitting in Dubai and going to jail...
You should get some perspective, who gives a two tosses about the banks when your facing time in jail.
No ones perfect, we all make mistakes and putting people in jail for getting into debt due to redundancies is NOT RIGHT!
As the poster states if the banks were foolish enough to give credit cards they can accept the risk and take the fall...
You should get some perspective, who gives a two tosses about the banks when your facing time in jail.
No ones perfect, we all make mistakes and putting people in jail for getting into debt due to redundancies is NOT RIGHT!
As the poster states if the banks were foolish enough to give credit cards they can accept the risk and take the fall...
But, I find inappropriate to forget the risks and claim that there will be no problems in the future at all.
UAE is in serious trouble because of credit defaults on different levels and they will do their best to pursue their money. I am pretty confident that they will get more and more sophisticated methods in the future including cooperation with foreign governments. Recently they gave the helping hand to UK authorities for tracing UK tax evasions. It should be expected that UK will also help UAE. And these deals will be made with country by country....
If you escape UAE because of debt, please do not forget that it will not be forgiven. You should take serious precausions and not make silly remarks claiming how smart you were.
Aug 21st 2009, 8:19 pm
#159
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: OK So we did a runner......
You should also bear in mind that visa waiver system to many countries is possible only if you do not have any conviction in the past, not to mention the pending case... People are being detained on the airports only because unusual sounding name. You think you will have a pleasant trip without knowing how the information is shared among authorities. Yes, you can claim you are right. But you end up at the secondary inspection and it can take days to clear your situation..
Aug 21st 2009, 8:26 pm
#160
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Are you sure? Let assume you need to travel to Russia (business, tourist...).
Is this issue recognized by Russia? How do you know? How do you know what will be next year or if Russia and UAE will make some special agreement?
You want to travel to Thailand. How do you know if Thailand recognize it as a crime or not? Or Singapure? Or who knows which country?
Aug 21st 2009, 8:52 pm
#161
Banned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Yes, I would agree that it is better to escape Dubai than to sit in prison.
But, I find inappropriate to forget the risks and claim that there will be no problems in the future at all.
UAE is in serious trouble because of credit defaults on different levels and they will do their best to pursue their money. I am pretty confident that they will get more and more sophisticated methods in the future including cooperation with foreign governments. Recently they gave the helping hand to UK authorities for tracing UK tax evasions. It should be expected that UK will also help UAE. And these deals will be made with country by country....
If you escape UAE because of debt, please do not forget that it will not be forgiven. You should take serious precausions and not make silly remarks claiming how smart you were.
But, I find inappropriate to forget the risks and claim that there will be no problems in the future at all.
UAE is in serious trouble because of credit defaults on different levels and they will do their best to pursue their money. I am pretty confident that they will get more and more sophisticated methods in the future including cooperation with foreign governments. Recently they gave the helping hand to UK authorities for tracing UK tax evasions. It should be expected that UK will also help UAE. And these deals will be made with country by country....
If you escape UAE because of debt, please do not forget that it will not be forgiven. You should take serious precausions and not make silly remarks claiming how smart you were.
I would do exactly as they did.
HSBC and the rest of the incompetents here are not worth spending time in a dirty jail cell, especially considering it was there lending polciies that probably meant he lost his job in the first place.
Aug 22nd 2009, 12:38 am
#162
Go on.. Pull my finger..
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 5,726
Re: OK So we did a runner......
So, I've been reading this thread comfortably ensconced in my bedroom, drinking a beautiful glass of red and listening to my dog snore.
I left a well-known media company and left behind Dhs150k in debt. When the bank got in touch with me I refused to pay. My reasons for this were twofold: 1) risk goes along with profit and the bank assumes some level of risk when they advance credit. If the bank wasn't willing to assume that level of risk then they shouldn't have advanced me the credit. 2) that money stayed in the country. I didn't put the cash in a money belt and slip out of Dubai better off than I came. I fell on hard times and, yes, was more concerned about me and mine than I was with the bank, the banking sector or the fat ***** who invest in either. Standard Chartered can take the hit.
For me it wasn't a moral consideration because I wasn't borrowing the money from a chap who was going to go out of business if I defaulted.
Also, I called my lawyer in the US and talked to him about the consequences of skipping town. He said the consequences were non existent compared to those of staying in the UAE. First, he tells me, in the US at least, the only thing the bank can do is sell the debt at .30 on the dollar to a US based company or subsidiary of the creditor. Also, they can't, by US law come after my home, anything I use to make a living or my retirement savings. So, my house, my car, my computers and my 401k are all safe. Also, they need to get a judgment in a US court, with a US judge or jury. The chances of Arabs getting a judgment against me are nil.
Do I feel bad? No. Well, a little. It was hard to get references for my new work, but I sorted it out. Would I do it the same way again? No. I would have just stayed home.
I keep reading the posts from admon and I keep thinking "what a fool." Admon reminds me of my grandfather and I'll bet he's from that same century of gold-backed securities. His loyalty is misplaced. He is looking out for all the wrong people. When you are deciding whether to flee or not you need think about: your kids, your spouse, yourself—that's all.
On another note, I just sold a book about my time in the UAE and the advance is enough to cover my debt and then some. Am I going to pay off my debts? It depends on whether it would be better to fight it in court. If I can get it settled for less than I owe then that's what I'll do. It's a business decision and not a referendum on my morality. Assets-liabilities=worth. It's that simple. No, I don't kick dogs, trip old people, cheat on my taxes or steal.
I'll let you know what happens, but I suspect nothing will. I suspect it'll never see the inside of a courtroom and I will never have to pay it back.
In the meantime I'll stay away from Dubai when I fly to India and remember my time with good friends there fondly.
I left a well-known media company and left behind Dhs150k in debt. When the bank got in touch with me I refused to pay. My reasons for this were twofold: 1) risk goes along with profit and the bank assumes some level of risk when they advance credit. If the bank wasn't willing to assume that level of risk then they shouldn't have advanced me the credit. 2) that money stayed in the country. I didn't put the cash in a money belt and slip out of Dubai better off than I came. I fell on hard times and, yes, was more concerned about me and mine than I was with the bank, the banking sector or the fat ***** who invest in either. Standard Chartered can take the hit.
For me it wasn't a moral consideration because I wasn't borrowing the money from a chap who was going to go out of business if I defaulted.
Also, I called my lawyer in the US and talked to him about the consequences of skipping town. He said the consequences were non existent compared to those of staying in the UAE. First, he tells me, in the US at least, the only thing the bank can do is sell the debt at .30 on the dollar to a US based company or subsidiary of the creditor. Also, they can't, by US law come after my home, anything I use to make a living or my retirement savings. So, my house, my car, my computers and my 401k are all safe. Also, they need to get a judgment in a US court, with a US judge or jury. The chances of Arabs getting a judgment against me are nil.
Do I feel bad? No. Well, a little. It was hard to get references for my new work, but I sorted it out. Would I do it the same way again? No. I would have just stayed home.
I keep reading the posts from admon and I keep thinking "what a fool." Admon reminds me of my grandfather and I'll bet he's from that same century of gold-backed securities. His loyalty is misplaced. He is looking out for all the wrong people. When you are deciding whether to flee or not you need think about: your kids, your spouse, yourself—that's all.
On another note, I just sold a book about my time in the UAE and the advance is enough to cover my debt and then some. Am I going to pay off my debts? It depends on whether it would be better to fight it in court. If I can get it settled for less than I owe then that's what I'll do. It's a business decision and not a referendum on my morality. Assets-liabilities=worth. It's that simple. No, I don't kick dogs, trip old people, cheat on my taxes or steal.
I'll let you know what happens, but I suspect nothing will. I suspect it'll never see the inside of a courtroom and I will never have to pay it back.
In the meantime I'll stay away from Dubai when I fly to India and remember my time with good friends there fondly.
Typical Yank mentality...
"I have a USA passport, therefore you can't touch me..."
And Yanks wonder why they are despised...???
Aug 22nd 2009, 12:57 am
#163
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Re: OK So we did a runner......
So, I've been reading this thread comfortably ensconced in my bedroom, drinking a beautiful glass of red **and listening to my dog snore.
I left a well-known media company and left behind Dhs150k in debt. When the bank got in touch with me I refused to pay. My reasons for this were twofold: 1) risk goes along with profit and the bank assumes some level of risk when they advance credit.
[COLOR="Blue"]
Didn't you assume some level of responsibility in paying it back?
Your timeline indicates you transacted the loan just as the Dubai(and Global) bubble popped,did you factor that risk into borrowing &job security?
If the bank wasn't willing to assume that level of risk then they shouldn't have advanced me the credit. 2) that money stayed in the country. I didn't put the cash in a money belt and slip out of Dubai better off than I came. I fell on hard times and, yes, was more concerned about me and mine than I was with the bank, the banking sector or the fat ***** who invest in either. Standard Chartered can take the hit.
And all their customers will indirectly pay off your debt....For me it wasn't a moral consideration because I wasn't borrowing the money from a chap who was going to go out of business if I defaulted.
Also, I called my lawyer in the US and talked to him about the consequences of skipping town. He said the consequences were non existent compared to those of staying in the UAE. First, he tells me, in the US at least, the only thing the bank can do is sell the debt at .30 on the dollar to a US based company or subsidiary of the creditor. Also, they can't, by US law come after my home, anything I use to make a living or my retirement savings. So, my house, my car, my computers and my 401k are all safe. Also, they need to get a judgment in a US court, with a US judge or jury. The chances of Arabs getting a judgment against me are nil.
Do I feel bad? No. Well, a little. It was hard to get references for my new work, but I sorted it out. Would I do it the same way again? No. I would have just stayed home.
I keep reading the posts from admon and I keep thinking "what a fool." Admon reminds me of my grandfather and I'll bet he's from that same century of gold-backed securities. His loyalty is misplaced. He is looking out for all the wrong people. When you are deciding whether to flee or not you need think about: your kids, your spouse, yourself—that's all.
Don't decry others who demonstrate 'moral consideration' just because you choose to dismiss it.
On another note, I just sold a book about my time in the UAE and the advance is enough to cover my debt and then some. Am I going to pay off my debts? It depends on whether it would be better to fight it in court.
If I can get it settled for less than I owe then that's what I'll do. It's a business decision and not a referendum on my morality.
You are kidding yourself if you think litigation will come in cheaper than AED150K but I suppose it suits the bravado personality.
Besides, what is there to challenge? You owe 150k........
Assets-liabilities=worth. It's that simple. No, I don't kick dogs, trip old people, cheat on my taxes or steal.
I'll let you know what happens, but I suspect nothing will. I suspect it'll never see the inside of a courtroom and I will never have to pay it back.
In the meantime I'll stay away from Dubai when I fly to India and remember my time with good friends there fondly.
I left a well-known media company and left behind Dhs150k in debt. When the bank got in touch with me I refused to pay. My reasons for this were twofold: 1) risk goes along with profit and the bank assumes some level of risk when they advance credit.
[COLOR="Blue"]
Didn't you assume some level of responsibility in paying it back?
Your timeline indicates you transacted the loan just as the Dubai(and Global) bubble popped,did you factor that risk into borrowing &job security?
If the bank wasn't willing to assume that level of risk then they shouldn't have advanced me the credit. 2) that money stayed in the country. I didn't put the cash in a money belt and slip out of Dubai better off than I came. I fell on hard times and, yes, was more concerned about me and mine than I was with the bank, the banking sector or the fat ***** who invest in either. Standard Chartered can take the hit.
And all their customers will indirectly pay off your debt....For me it wasn't a moral consideration because I wasn't borrowing the money from a chap who was going to go out of business if I defaulted.
Also, I called my lawyer in the US and talked to him about the consequences of skipping town. He said the consequences were non existent compared to those of staying in the UAE. First, he tells me, in the US at least, the only thing the bank can do is sell the debt at .30 on the dollar to a US based company or subsidiary of the creditor. Also, they can't, by US law come after my home, anything I use to make a living or my retirement savings. So, my house, my car, my computers and my 401k are all safe. Also, they need to get a judgment in a US court, with a US judge or jury. The chances of Arabs getting a judgment against me are nil.
Do I feel bad? No. Well, a little. It was hard to get references for my new work, but I sorted it out. Would I do it the same way again? No. I would have just stayed home.
I keep reading the posts from admon and I keep thinking "what a fool." Admon reminds me of my grandfather and I'll bet he's from that same century of gold-backed securities. His loyalty is misplaced. He is looking out for all the wrong people. When you are deciding whether to flee or not you need think about: your kids, your spouse, yourself—that's all.
Don't decry others who demonstrate 'moral consideration' just because you choose to dismiss it.
On another note, I just sold a book about my time in the UAE and the advance is enough to cover my debt and then some. Am I going to pay off my debts? It depends on whether it would be better to fight it in court.
If I can get it settled for less than I owe then that's what I'll do. It's a business decision and not a referendum on my morality.
You are kidding yourself if you think litigation will come in cheaper than AED150K but I suppose it suits the bravado personality.
Besides, what is there to challenge? You owe 150k........
Assets-liabilities=worth. It's that simple. No, I don't kick dogs, trip old people, cheat on my taxes or steal.
I'll let you know what happens, but I suspect nothing will. I suspect it'll never see the inside of a courtroom and I will never have to pay it back.
In the meantime I'll stay away from Dubai when I fly to India and remember my time with good friends there fondly.
**More wine?....Who's paying?
Last edited by Eva; Aug 22nd 2009 at 1:03 am.
Aug 22nd 2009, 3:29 am
#164
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Yeah, and in the meantime, those of us who actually managed to hold down a job are under far more scrutiny now, thanks to thoughless f*&ks like you..
Typical Yank mentality...
"I have a USA passport, therefore you can't touch me..."
And Yanks wonder why they are despised...???
Typical Yank mentality...
"I have a USA passport, therefore you can't touch me..."
And Yanks wonder why they are despised...???
Falling on hard times and not being able to pay back debt isn't a question of morality. Woe be the man or woman who doesn't ever face redundancies or layoffs in their field—you stay a working adult long enough and it will come around your way. Hopefully your high-minded morality will get you out of your troubles.
Not paying back a debt is NOT tantamount to theft. Walking into the bank and removing cash at gunpoint is theft. Not paying a debt isn't even a crime in my mind. It doesn't even rise to the level of speeding or littering. It's a non-issue where I'm concerned.
As for travel and moving about the world: it hasn't affected it in the least. I travel to the EU all of the time, have been to Thailand once since I left, the Caribbean regularly. My experience with moving around the world is that they don't do credit checks on you at passport control.
I'm trying to talk about the realities of what happens when you do what I did, not some idealized society where...I don't even know. I have a hard time understanding what world some of you live in. It isn't the same world I live in where I need to worry about: health insurance for a child who has chronic asthma; debt from my school loans lest the government garnish my wages; putting my children through college in a few short years; paying off a mortgage so we have a roof over our head; paying the government 40% of everything I earn. And you say I need to start, now, losing sleep over a BANKER. Eff you. I have real, adult problems to worry about.
It amazes me that some people would consider it a question of morality. I'll bet you sleep with prostitutes and justify their imprisonment by claiming they are just operating on the free market. Cognitive dissonance.
Grow up. This isn't a question of me being an American, or lacking moral fiber. I was presented with two options: one was terrible, the other was palatable. Imagine which one I took. If you get off your high horse for a bit and stop preaching about what a terrible person I am you would be able to think critically about a perverse incentive system that forces people to take on Dhs150k and then presents them with a choice like going to jail or running out on obligations.
As for not paying back a debt now that I can: I apply the same cost/benefit analysis the banks do when they evaluate me as a risk. It isn't personal, I'm not thumbing my nose at them for the sake of feeling smug. I'll say it again: it's a business decision. If it costs less to fight it, I will. Otherwise I'll pay it back. The money I save will be going to a different bank in the form of a mortgage payment.
I drive 15 year-old Toyota, live in a modest house and work 50 weeks a year. Try to hold onto that outrage for a banker who jacks a family's interest rates up to usurist levels and then puts them out when they can't pay off a manipulated loan—a banker, mind you, who got a bonus for doing it.
Children, please be quiet. The adult are talking.
Aug 22nd 2009, 3:34 am
#165
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Re: OK So we did a runner......
It IS better to run from jail than to be imprisoned forever because of a debt. I will teach my children that, I do teach my children that and am proud of a child who can decide how to think about things in such a mature way.