Hello.Kitty

but you don't have to pay 12 months upfront any more - not in one fat cheque, at least. LLs will push for it, but they're on a hiding to nothing - push for at least 4 cheques and get a get-out clause written into the contract so that you can terminate the contract before the year is up with only the 2 months' notice if need be.

So few companies provide accommodation here now that I think it's hardly worth contemplating any more. Those days are gone.

osprey57

Thank you again. Very useful advice and info.
Hello.Kitty - thank you for the info on LL & contracts - I did not know that!
Company is fronting us money for accomodation so seems like we'll be ok on that one. We will push for 4 cheques and get out clause.

This may need a new thread (so sorry if it does) but...
what are people's views on apartment vs villa in first year?

We had automatically assumed we would go for a villa but reading these posts not so sure now. We have a 2 year old boy who is VERY active. As usual - advice and opinions most welcome.

Madam Medusa

if you have kids and can afford a villa, i wouldn't even contemplate an apartment...ever...

MM, xx

co durham boy

Every company i'v ever worked for overseas and in the middle east has provided accommodation.
I wouldnt even contemplate getting on a plane without an allowance or accomodation provided.
The trouble in dubai is people came here because they just wanted a bit of a flash lifestyle and also firms hired inexperienced people that took crap deals.
The proper ex-pat deals are still out there but im afraid only for experienced people.

Hello.Kitty

hmm, you're a lucky man! Most people I know over here cam out in 2007/2008 and work in construction and none of them have housing provided - an allowance, yes, but not a "here are the keys" type deal.

I think it's unfair to suggest that everybody who wasn't able to secure a super-cushy deal are complete schmucks, airheads and second-class expats.

Getting back on topic, for the OP - and I've said this elsewhere too - if you've got 2 small children (baby/toddler) I'd go for an apartment to start with and then move on to a villa if and when you decide that you need to unleash them! I came out completely fixed on "it's a villa or nothing" and changed my mind when I saw the villas that (at the time) were within our budget.

Have a search in the forum topics, cos I remember a short while ago there was quite a good thread about the pros and cons (including costs) of villas vs flats. The best thing is to keep your mind open and visit all kinds so that you can form your own opinion.

co durham boy

There's actually very little luck involved,it's what i do for a living and it's the minimum i expect on an overseas contract.if they don't want to pay it then i'll work for someone else.
If people are prepared to work to diluted conditions then thats for them to decide.
My point is that dubai has had a massive influx of expats over the last 3 years and lets say that a lot of them leave alot to be desired.
People get blown away about this place and to be honest at its best its just an average city.
There's more butchers bakers and candlestick makers in this city than anywhere else in the world.

Jeeper

No one else in my industry would 'hand me the keys'......I haven't accepted diluted conditions...my conditions are decent enough thanks.
My salary is not great by dubai standards but I make it work - and so can the OP on 35k.....with not much effort at all....they'll hardly be scraping by.

Saying "if you weren't able to get acccomm supplied you'd work for someone else" is irrelevant to people that don't have that option by nature of the industry in which they work - no matter where they live.

You almost sound like you're saying people should choose better careers!

yes - this city is just an average city - yes there's a lot of 'undesireables' (as you put it) here...so what?!

co durham boy

good for you fella, i must be one of 'LUCKY ONE'S' eh ?

Jeeper

You're probably just in a 'lucky' industry (lucky is completely the wrong term but...).....if your industry was flooded with equally able employees you'd probably not have the bargaining power you do.

co durham boy

The industry is probably the worst one to be in at the moment to be honest but the deals are still there if you look.
Construction along with a few of the other related fields are known for offering pretty good packages for overseas work.
My standard package hasnt really changed for around 15 yrs apart from the salary that is.
yes your correct to say that there is a bit of leverage to be gained in the bargaining scale but having worked in enough rat holes over the years im glad i have got that to bargain with.

Ethos83

You will be in some type of temporary accommodation when you first come out, so you will have time to check out both apartments and villas and what the budgets are.

In addition to the Ranches, Springs, Meadows, the old standbyes of Jumeira and Umm Suqueim, which are villas only, there are two terrific new posh areas filled with apartments: Dubai Marina and Downtown Dubai. The buildings vary, some will be very luxurious with all the fittings and floor to ceiling windows with great views, others will be more mundane.

In addition to being cheaper than villas the advantage of an apartment in those areas is that you will be able to walk to lots of shops and restaurants and malls. In the Marina, the beach is right there. A number of buildings will have playrooms as well as gyms and almost everyone has a pool.

I understand wanting to have space with an active toddler, but keep in mind that in Dubai it is incredibly hot for six months of the year and you won't want to be outside. Second, plenty of apartments are rather spacious. The cheaper villas in New Dubai are no better than shoddy versions of Barratt homes, two tiny rooms downstairs, two or three tiny bedrooms upstairs, so you do pay a surfeit for the privilege of living in a villa.

Above all, apartments are cheaper. Not only to rent but the DEWA bills are a fraction than for a villa a comparable size. For your first year in Dubai I do strongly recommend limiting expenses as much as possible until you have a firm grip on the actual cost of living, your lifestyle and what it will cost.

So- do come out here and speak with a few agents and always distrust them.

If you want more people's views you might be better off joining expatwoman.com, which has an active forum.

crw1979

For what it's worth,and this is a personal view, push for as much salary as possible, all of these add ons are simply there as a good way of employer's keeping gratuity payments lower- By way of example, I would much rather have 250k of salary than 250k of allowance over a 5 year period.

Part of the problem with Dubai rent in the past has been that employers have provided housing allowances at ever increasing rates which an employee has then almost been duty bound to use to the max because any money left over would not be returned by way additional money in the pocket. Much better that an employer simply says we think you should be able to get housing at "x" so we will add "x" on to your basic salary and then you are free to do with it as you please and negotiate your own deal with the requisite number of cheques and break clauses- which in this market is getting increasingly easy to do.

osprey57

This has turned up several interesting conversations! Plus, it's has given us loads to think about.
Co Durham Boy - I understand what your saying. We are trying to be as realistic as we can about what Dubai is. It was never a place I thought I would visit as flash cars, villas, life etc is not my thing. We have to come as my husband needs a job after a period of redundancy and we have run out of options. I am very excited about living in a new place and I am looking forward to unpeeling the layers of Dubai - good and bad. Basically, we have to make this work.
MM - that is how I feel about apartments. I lived in a high rise for a couple of years in South London and really don't want to go back to that.
However ...
Ethos83 & Hello.Kitty - we are trying very hard to keep an open mind about villas/apartments and what you are both saying makes alot of sense.
Also - thank you Hello.Kitty again for the advice on clothes. See you in Primark!!

mission

I gotta agree here...i dont know where most of the people in this forum come from AED 35k is a reasonable salary....I earn around that much and i live in a two bed aprt in JLT, i go out on a regular basis and still manage to put away the equivalent of a grand a month (GBP) if not more. Granted i aint married or got a kid, but surely the expenses cant be that much higher if you got a child who doesnt need schooling just yet.

Also the issue of having a mortgage back home, aint you folks heard of renting out your property.

spart

Thats just quite wrong. Companies still provide accomodation, why would I expect high paid employees to spend days looking for accomodation in this rubbish market. Pay a professional to do it.

Get out clauses and in fact varying a contract full stop is pie in the sky stuff. Landlords here use the standard blue tenancy form. You cant vary terms.
You might get a lawyer to draw some things up for you, but very few landlords will accept these. Get out clauses? Maybe in some of the more desperate places in Dubai, but certainly not in Abu Dhabi, or quality places. And if you think that you dont have to pay 12 months up front still, then you are probably ruling out 85% of the Abu Dhabi market, and at least 60% of the Dubai market.

Things have changed, but remember that the contracts are totally skewed towards landlords here.