scrubbedexpat141

Don't do anything. Just stay here until then and stop being scared by a few on here. Rest is on the gov website.

40k a month for a family of 4 is tight though, in the sense that I don't think it leaves you a penny in savings and means anything big that comes along might be on the never-never card instead of from a fund. Fair to say though, that your entire UK earnings could be saved/invested so from that perspective it becomes a different proposition.

How often would you need to be back in Blighty to meet work? Is that job safe as it can be? I think this all works on the basis that your job is OK as well.
Would you have a look whilst out here for a Dubai based position if the money were good?

pratt123

Thanks for your response. When you say don't do anything, what do you mean please?

I would probably be back for any off sites we have, so I m guessing probably three to 4 times a year, each visit perhaps being a week long. This is pure assumption now though as there is no precedent yet in the organisation for something like this, and I ll be the one setting it! Job is safe for now, just got recently promoted in Nov to a senior role and unless something dramatic happens down the line and our top line falls off a cliff, I should be ok.
With regards to my pay though, I was hoping I could qualify for the non-resident criteria and hence have my income tax-free, which would be a great boost . That's where I would love some tax advice from anyone qualified to ensure I ve done everything I can to make it work. I ve gone through the online material and know we need to stay there till April 2023 at the very least to make this happen. But I do have quite a few questions, for example, if we were to let HMRC know before going, say this summer, then do we automatically get the tax free code applied or do we continue to pay tax as normal and then after April 2023 claim a refund for tax?

With regards to the plan after 2 years, I wasn't actively planning on looking for a role there, especially since my company has shown willingness to be so flexible. I feel indebted to a certain degree but more importantly I do enjoy the people and the culture, and my role is pretty good and well paid (i.e. in the UK) so preferably would want to continue here. Having said that, if my wife gets a renewal, kids love it there and everything just 'clicks', then who knows... I may have to think of Plan B.

ThanksP

scrubbedexpat141

Basically, you don't have to worry about it if you're going to stay for a full tax year. It's not like you have to tell them every month where you are or what you've earned etc. You just leave and do the form on the way out and job done. That being said - you are in a more complex position so I'd be asking your company to check what you need to do. It's only really your wife that matters if you pay tax as normal in the UK.

If you target no tax on your pay then these work trips really matter. You need to go through the GOV website about ties to the UK and days allowed etc.

You don't need to stay until 2023 to start this, it starts the day you leave, provisionally.
There are split year concessions to be made but to be fair, your situation hinges on what your company can / can't do and therefore worth asking them for how it would work and then someone for proper advice - no matter how technical someone gets on a forum, they're still someone who's on an internet forum and are to be trusted as much as you trust a fart when you've got the shits.

pratt123

Yes, been reading about the amount of 'work days' etc, that I can do in the UK if non-resident etc, and I do think I'd comply with these short visits. At least, I'll go in eyes wide open, fully being aware of the conditions I need to meet so can plan accordingly.

I've got a meeting later this week the tax advisor internally within our HR function, so hopefully will know more then. We are also awating a more detailed view of the package for my wife, as currently we only know that it's a good reputed company and base is c 38-40k max (apparently came from internal HR in the company, so not sure if there's potential to budge).

So if I've read your response correctly, once I fill the relevant form and submit upon departure, my monthly pay in the UK, starts coming in gross from there on and the condition that I need to be there till April 2023 is only something that HMRC could ask me to prove at a later time to see if I owe them any tax up until April 2023? i.e. it's not a case of paying the income tax through PAYE and then reclaiming for a year and a bit once I've met the April 2023 condition...?

Thanks - I will definitely seek tax advice as you're right, getting the shits when you think it's only a fart is not a good feeling!

scrubbedexpat141

Put it this way, the less you interact with the tax man, the better. Fill out the P85, leave and thank your blessings you've escaped the UK for a while.

Now, your situation makes it harder because you're potentially not leaving for tax reasons but potentially are. I'd spend an hour with a tax expert and let them give you answers to a few situations.

My original comments of don't worry are now null and void because you might complicate it a lot. Your wife should just fill the form and leave, no biggie.

38-40 as base is good, if there are a few allowances on top, you're laughing.

pratt123

Thanks, will look at things in a bit more detail once we get the full package, as that's the starting point really.

Plan of action is then:

1) Review overall package
2) If sounds feasible, then speak to Internal HR and understand what's really way forward
3) In parallel, seek professional tax advice (had an initial quote today and it was £995+ VAT for a couple of hours' advice!!!!!) I'm thinking I should just peruse through everything on the .gov website and umpteen resources out there - I've a fair idea already, but not sure how I feel paying £1200! I'll continue looking for someone a bit more reasonable.
4) If everything aligns, then start planning specifics around contracts, dates of travel, accommodation, nursery in DxB, live-in maid etc.
5) In parallel, start to liquidate assets here (cars etc.) and also look to rent out house.

A lot of disruptive things above which wasn't in play this time last week! With a 3 year old and a 7 month old, this is going to be fun..... (not!)

Hopefully I haven't missed anything.

Thanks again for the help all.

Regards,
P

Millhouse

Don't worry, I put the whole house in a container, sold it and moved here with a 5 month old. It can be done!

Most of us here fall under the third automatic overseas test. I don't think you will, so you probably need to focus your efforts on the first test;
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-test-srt-rdr3

scrubbedexpat141

Good plan. Can't do much else without the first being workable and the second being covered.
Only then, can you start looking at spending on 3 - do the other work first and at least be prepared to go and get advice with a list of questions and more knowledge behind you.

I can't help with the kids and wife in the move, but I did bring some extremely precious cargo when I first came; I had two suitcases (playstation in one of them) and some golf clubs. Don't need much else.

pratt123

Wow, that must've been an exciting (draining!) move! How long have you been the in the Sandpit?

With regards to the tests, having gone through the website, I think this year I d come under split year and so would my wife if she doesn't get over there before end of June (sub 90 days in the UK). And then as long as we both stay until Apr 2023, I think we ll be tax exempt for part of this year and the whole of next year. Hopefully that also means I don't have to pay the tax through PAYE for the rest of this year once split year treatment starts. I won't entirely be a non resident this year whichever way I look at it.

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pratt123

Thanks. Sound like you've got a sound head on your shoulders! Anyone who packs their PlayStation is a winner in my eyes!

Despite having to go through all this, we have been getting ahead of ourselves and looking at potential places to stay..mainly because it's fun to do so, especially in a lockdown! So far, we like the look of Business Bay for its location mainly.

scrubbedexpat141

I spent 8 years living in Business Bay, which was, in all honesty, about 4 years too long.
Which communities / buildings you looking at there?
We're in Downtown now and it's ****ing bliss.

Millhouse

13 years, most happy. Some not so, but nothing to do with this place. I hope to pack it in soon - nothing against this place at all and I only have positive things to say about it - just other opportunities might be on the horizon.

Don't worry about the wife. She will fall under 3rd automatic. Fill out the form, get the refund and don't come back until you've done the time away. You are the complicated case, hers is simple.

pratt123

13 years - wow, that's really cool.

Sorry to harp on this, but when you say refund, do you mean we actually pay the tax as usual to HMRC, and then claim back once we've done the time away? Or do they make it tax-exempt at source itself once the form has been submitted and then we just to ensure any future audit requirement from HMRC (post April 2023) is covered by us (i.e. we prove we've been away, done the time etc.)

"You are the complicated case, hers is simple" - Story of my life!

pratt123

So far, we've only looked at Executive Towers at Business Bay (not sure why!). Anything else worth looking at?

I'd love to live in Downtown but much better value for money at Business Bay looking at some of the rents. Ultimately, the more money we save on rent (although I do want a minimum standard), the more disposable we'll have in DXB to spend on all the other fun stuff. No doubt, the kids will need to be constantly entertained too, so that's not cheap as the UK!

We're ideally looking for a 3bed flat, with a study/maid's room and in pretty good condition. If near a metro, then great. Short listed areas are Business Bay, Downtown, JLC?, Marina (although too far from Old Dubai/Downtown).

Millhouse

If you like your kids you'll get a 3 bed in the Greens. Centrally located, selection of decent pools and places to ride scooters with shade. Business Bay / Downtown is a concrete jungle (I lived there and loved it but not with kids).

If you want to save some coin, be near the city and have some (but less) greenery, look at also Meydan Polo Residences. Motor city also solid for families.

Remember the more parks and pools you have on your doorstep, the less you have to spend entertaining the snot-monsters.