families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
Jul 26th 2008, 2:43 pm
#61
Concierge
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 29,625
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
compared it to wearing a hard hat to a building site 
what has Britain become?
what has Britain become?
Jul 26th 2008, 4:55 pm
#62
Soupy twist
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,271
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
I'd be quite happy to take a 12k per month pay cut if it meant that my company came up with the lump sum for my rent every year. I'd be no worse off financially, and I wouldn't owe anything to the bank.
I for one can't understand how you moan about having to get loans to pay rent up front etc
you could be paying a hell of alot of a mortgage if you converted that into sterling?
why do you stay in Dubai, if I remember rightly you previously said that you could earn the same at home?
As for the cultural side of life, one of the main reasons I am here is because of the peaceful nature of the Emirati people who were kind enough to let us share their Country
And as for them being "kind enough" to let us share the country... let's be brutally honest here, without expats, there wouldn't be much of a country to share
Jul 27th 2008, 3:45 pm
#63
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2,082
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
It's amusing that you're still pushing this "safer environment" line when you're many times more likely to be killed on the roads in the UAE than you are to be stabbed by a drug-crazed hoodie in the UK 
You do seem to be missing the point I'm making, too. You're describing people who get lots of increasingly-less-common expat benefits, like an upfront housing allowance, subsidised school fees etc. My point is, would they still think AD was such a great place if they lost all that and had to pay for everything, in full, out of their own pockets? And had to give up their 4x4 because the cost of petrol meant they couldn't afford to run it any more?
I still believe that if you took away all the things that allow expats here to live a lifestyle they couldn't afford in their own country, many of them - no matter how much they say they love the country for its own sake - would suddenly decide that the place had lost its allure. At the end of the day, it's the more material, venal things that keep them here, not the native culture. How many expats even bother to learn to read Arabic (which you can do in a few weeks), never mind speak it?
You do seem to be missing the point I'm making, too. You're describing people who get lots of increasingly-less-common expat benefits, like an upfront housing allowance, subsidised school fees etc. My point is, would they still think AD was such a great place if they lost all that and had to pay for everything, in full, out of their own pockets? And had to give up their 4x4 because the cost of petrol meant they couldn't afford to run it any more?
I still believe that if you took away all the things that allow expats here to live a lifestyle they couldn't afford in their own country, many of them - no matter how much they say they love the country for its own sake - would suddenly decide that the place had lost its allure. At the end of the day, it's the more material, venal things that keep them here, not the native culture. How many expats even bother to learn to read Arabic (which you can do in a few weeks), never mind speak it?
If it was the same cost of living and benefits in nz as here or vice versa....life in NZ is far better and i'd be there in a shot.
Only here to save and get a little bit futher ahead sooner than I otherwise would have at home.
Things I would miss doing in Dubai for sure.....but many more things I prefer doing in NZ. If I wasn't saving month by month - i'd be gone.
If I was from the UK however, nothing would make me go back there!
Jul 29th 2008, 1:50 pm
#64
Concierge
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 29,625
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
But things aren't quite that simple, are they? Just being given an extra 10k a month doesn't even everything out, because you still need to find a year's worth of rent in one go. Would you happily use your savings to pay your rent, or would you have to get a bank loan (which would obviously make your rent more expensive because of the interest)?
I would use savings if this was the case.
I'd be quite happy to take a 12k per month pay cut if it meant that my company came up with the lump sum for my rent every year. I'd be no worse off financially, and I wouldn't owe anything to the bank.
have you tried asking for an interest free loan from them? personally I feel that if you had to get bank loan when you got here to pay your rent then maybe you shouldn't have taken the job?
Not just me - I can point you in the direction of hundreds, if not thousands of Media City workers who are in the same boat and feel the same way about it. And many other people in non-traditional expat industries across Dubai, I'm sure.
You'd have to be nuts to be thinking about buying anywhere in the UK right now. The property bubble is bursting there, and full-blown recession is right around the corner. In a couple of years, though, it'll be the right time. And that's what we're aiming for.
good for you but you could have bought two years ago and left then?
Like I said, we're doing well here financially. The novelty wore off a long time ago - this place *is* just malls and the beach, and the general fakeness and shallowness gets to us from time to time - but it's tolerable until it's the right time to move on.
How much social contact do you have with Emiratis, out of interest? I have Emirati friends at work, but we don't really socialise out of it.
I have one fantastic Emirati friend who I have known for about ten years, I used to socialise more with them when were in Satwa than I do nowadays. And I sure do miss my drink buddies from the Country Club
And as for them being "kind enough" to let us share the country... let's be brutally honest here, without expats, there wouldn't be much of a country to share
I would use savings if this was the case.
I'd be quite happy to take a 12k per month pay cut if it meant that my company came up with the lump sum for my rent every year. I'd be no worse off financially, and I wouldn't owe anything to the bank.
have you tried asking for an interest free loan from them? personally I feel that if you had to get bank loan when you got here to pay your rent then maybe you shouldn't have taken the job?
Not just me - I can point you in the direction of hundreds, if not thousands of Media City workers who are in the same boat and feel the same way about it. And many other people in non-traditional expat industries across Dubai, I'm sure.
You'd have to be nuts to be thinking about buying anywhere in the UK right now. The property bubble is bursting there, and full-blown recession is right around the corner. In a couple of years, though, it'll be the right time. And that's what we're aiming for.
good for you but you could have bought two years ago and left then?
Like I said, we're doing well here financially. The novelty wore off a long time ago - this place *is* just malls and the beach, and the general fakeness and shallowness gets to us from time to time - but it's tolerable until it's the right time to move on.
How much social contact do you have with Emiratis, out of interest? I have Emirati friends at work, but we don't really socialise out of it.
I have one fantastic Emirati friend who I have known for about ten years, I used to socialise more with them when were in Satwa than I do nowadays. And I sure do miss my drink buddies from the Country Club
And as for them being "kind enough" to let us share the country... let's be brutally honest here, without expats, there wouldn't be much of a country to share
Jul 29th 2008, 1:51 pm
#65
Concierge
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 29,625
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
I'm still here just for the reasons you point out.
If it was the same cost of living and benefits in nz as here or vice versa....life in NZ is far better and i'd be there in a shot.
Only here to save and get a little bit futher ahead sooner than I otherwise would have at home.
Things I would miss doing in Dubai for sure.....but many more things I prefer doing in NZ. If I wasn't saving month by month - i'd be gone.
If I was from the UK however, nothing would make me go back there!
If it was the same cost of living and benefits in nz as here or vice versa....life in NZ is far better and i'd be there in a shot.
Only here to save and get a little bit futher ahead sooner than I otherwise would have at home.
Things I would miss doing in Dubai for sure.....but many more things I prefer doing in NZ. If I wasn't saving month by month - i'd be gone.
If I was from the UK however, nothing would make me go back there!
going back to the UK is a long way off for us. My husband has been left nearly 30 years, he actually wants to go to NZ as he has family there, time will tell.
Jul 29th 2008, 4:56 pm
#66
Soupy twist
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,271
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
Would you honestly?
It's just that on December 12th last year, I asked you the exact same question, and you insisted that you would never use any of your own money to pay rent.
I can borrow 60k per year interest-free as an advance against salary, but that is not the full 60k upfront, they actually give you 15k per quarter - yes, it's still based on the days when paying rent in four cheques was the norm, and when 60k would get you a villa.
This is a major issue for many people in the company, but the official line is that it would cost the company $20 million per year to offer all staff a full upfront housing loan, so it's not going to happen. They're actually planning to build about 400 staff apartments, but that's years off.
No, getting a bank loan to pay rent is far from an ideal situation to be in, but then that's the reality for many - and I mean MANY - people out here, especially those who don't work in the traditional expat industries of oil, construction, aviation etc. You may well think people who get a bigger salary than you are better off, but when you consider that many of them probably have to come up with their rent money themselves with no company help, you'll hopefully understand that you're still in a very fortunate position. Like I said, we'd take your salary in a heartbeat if it meant the company coughed up our rent money for us each year, but that just doesn't happen in my industry, and many others too.
We had no interest in buying in the UK two years ago - everything was ludicrously overpriced and the correction was inevitable. It should actually have happened about two years ago, but the MPC buckled to government pressure to try and stave off recession by keeping interest rates lower than they should have been for longer than they should have done. It kept people borrowing and spending, but of course it didn't avoid trouble completely, just postponed it.
It's just that on December 12th last year, I asked you the exact same question, and you insisted that you would never use any of your own money to pay rent.
have you tried asking for an interest free loan from them? personally I feel that if you had to get bank loan when you got here to pay your rent then maybe you shouldn't have taken the job?
This is a major issue for many people in the company, but the official line is that it would cost the company $20 million per year to offer all staff a full upfront housing loan, so it's not going to happen. They're actually planning to build about 400 staff apartments, but that's years off.
No, getting a bank loan to pay rent is far from an ideal situation to be in, but then that's the reality for many - and I mean MANY - people out here, especially those who don't work in the traditional expat industries of oil, construction, aviation etc. You may well think people who get a bigger salary than you are better off, but when you consider that many of them probably have to come up with their rent money themselves with no company help, you'll hopefully understand that you're still in a very fortunate position. Like I said, we'd take your salary in a heartbeat if it meant the company coughed up our rent money for us each year, but that just doesn't happen in my industry, and many others too.
good for you but you could have bought two years ago and left then?
Last edited by Eeyore; Jul 29th 2008 at 5:16 pm.
Jul 29th 2008, 5:05 pm
#67
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,553
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
Would you honestly?
You may well think people who get a bigger salary than you are better off, but when you consider that many of them probably have to come up with their rent money themselves with no company help, you'll hopefully understand that you're still in a very fortunate position.
You may well think people who get a bigger salary than you are better off, but when you consider that many of them probably have to come up with their rent money themselves with no company help, you'll hopefully understand that you're still in a very fortunate position.
Jul 29th 2008, 6:05 pm
#68
It's what the eye see's..
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 839
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
Do what I did back then. I converted the empty floor above my employers office space into a flat. Built in a kitchen, toilet and shower in a matter of a week. Lived smack in the middle of AD for free without anyone knowing it. My employer a local UAE national? Laughed himself sick. I told him strait in his face "What you guys are doing is absolute bullshit. Not a banker in the UAE has the courage to tell you if you buy real estate, do not maintain it, keep it empty for years you're writing it off 100 times faster then anywhere in the world." Maybe that's why the UAE banks are investing their money in other countries. Against 0% interest? Forget it... Religion and business don't mix, never have, never will...
Jul 29th 2008, 6:09 pm
#69
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
Do what I did back then. I converted the empty floor above my employers office space into a flat. Built in a kitchen, toilet and shower in a matter of a week. Lived smack in the middle of AD for free without anyone knowing it. My employer a local UAE national? Laughed himself sick. I told him strait in his face "What you guys are doing is absolute bullshit. Not a banker in the UAE has the courage to tell you if you buy real estate, do not maintain it, keep it empty for years you're writing it off 100 times faster then anywhere in the world." Maybe that's why the UAE banks are investing their money in other countries. Against 0% interest? Forget it... Religion and business don't mix, never have, never will...
You're marvellous........
Captain Fantastic
Jul 29th 2008, 6:18 pm
#70
It's what the eye see's..
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 839
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
No just realistic. If you where working back in your own country, you couldn't afford the life style you have now in the UAE either. So what the ****, who's kidding who Eva? Most people living in the upper class villa area's do it for the social respect they, get. It's a mega big joke... I went to the UAE to earn the maximum amount of money in the shortest possible time. Old school expat, so no swimming pool in the back of my house, no well maintained gardens and or parks. But it saved me what? AED 200.000 to 250.000 a year?
Jul 29th 2008, 6:24 pm
#71
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
No just realistic. If you where working back in your own country, you couldn't afford the life style you have now in the UAE either. So what the ****, who's kidding who Eva? Most people living in the upper class villa area's do it for the social respect they, get. It's a mega big joke... I went to the UAE to earn the maximum amount of money in the shortest possible time. Old school expat, so no swimming pool in the back of my house, no well maintained gardens and or parks. But it saved me what? AED 200.000 to 250.000 a year?
Whoa ho .......swing too far Dutchie? the mood thread is further up.
Come on then put your kroner where your pixels are;what life style do I have in the UAE?
Jul 29th 2008, 6:31 pm
#72
It's what the eye see's..
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 839
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
What I'm trying to say is the UAE can be dirt cheap to live in if you're a little bit inventive. I've had people pull their nooses up when I explained how I lived, yes but we live in that and that upper class area. And I just loved my standard answer "You do? Why? Because your employer is crazy enough to pay your rent? Because if he wasn't, chances are you would be living next to me..." I made a strait deal with my employer, pay me that in cash, I'll pay my own rent... Okay, paid nothing.
Jul 29th 2008, 6:44 pm
#73
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
[QUOTE=Dutchie;6624851]What I'm trying to say is the UAE can be dirt cheap to live in if you're a little bit inventive. I've had people pull their nooses up when I explained how I lived, yes but we live in that and that upper class area. And I just loved my standard answer "You do? Why? Because your employer is crazy enough to pay your rent? Because if he wasn't, chances are you would be living next to me..." I made a strait deal with my employer, pay me that in cash, I'll pay my own rent... Okay, paid nothing
If Buzzy was online ,she'd be first outta the honeypot to tell you mixed -use of a buliding is illegal.Currently in AD any space above offices? we call that the sky.You asked earlier has much changed in AD since you were first there....clearly a lot.Suggesting Niddy lives in loftspace above offices???
Jeez he ain't Anne Frank ........
If Buzzy was online ,she'd be first outta the honeypot to tell you mixed -use of a buliding is illegal.Currently in AD any space above offices? we call that the sky.You asked earlier has much changed in AD since you were first there....clearly a lot.Suggesting Niddy lives in loftspace above offices???
Jeez he ain't Anne Frank ........
Jul 29th 2008, 6:49 pm
#74
It's what the eye see's..
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 839
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
It wasn't ment as a personal insult to you or anyone on this board Eva. I might be Dutch, or as some PM's state an extremely inferior form of human being. I'm just realistic in my own, maybe weird way. In went in for the money, every AED I didn't spend, was one saved. Result? I can stop working when I'm 55. When I asked my employer who own that part of the empty building he couldn't even remember it was actually sold to anyone. So I occupied it, left it in a cleaner state then it was in when I moved in. No Captain what ever you called me here, just a guy that needed a roof above his head in a country that will always see me as an unwanted foreigner.
Last edited by Dutchie; Jul 29th 2008 at 6:51 pm.
Jul 29th 2008, 7:02 pm
#75
It's what the eye see's..
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 839
Re: families evicted from upscale villas in dubai
[QUOTE=Eva;6624905]
And I for sure didn't live in a loft.... Could have had 3500 square meters.
What I'm trying to say is the UAE can be dirt cheap to live in if you're a little bit inventive. I've had people pull their nooses up when I explained how I lived, yes but we live in that and that upper class area. And I just loved my standard answer "You do? Why? Because your employer is crazy enough to pay your rent? Because if he wasn't, chances are you would be living next to me..." I made a strait deal with my employer, pay me that in cash, I'll pay my own rent... Okay, paid nothing
If Buzzy was online ,she'd be first outta the honeypot to tell you mixed -use of a buliding is illegal.Currently in AD any space above offices? we call that the sky.You asked earlier has much changed in AD since you were first there....clearly a lot.Suggesting Niddy lives in loftspace above offices???
Jeez he ain't Anne Frank ........
If Buzzy was online ,she'd be first outta the honeypot to tell you mixed -use of a buliding is illegal.Currently in AD any space above offices? we call that the sky.You asked earlier has much changed in AD since you were first there....clearly a lot.Suggesting Niddy lives in loftspace above offices???
Jeez he ain't Anne Frank ........