Blue Cat

agree with you, I unfollowed him on Twitter

shiva

I agree however an objective media is pretty much a pipe dream these days everyone has either an agenda, special interest or just a cultural slant. No escaping it so best bet is to see all sides and make upmyour own mind.

To mine this is an insane escalation by Bahrain and gcc the real crux isn't Sunni Shia but that large groups of bahrainis are screwed t birth for no reason other than keeping the rich and powerful in that position. The same goes for Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and every other country between morocco and Omani including here it is after all no accident that MBZ was recently in the northern emirates, met a large number of young people and promised them jobs, money housing , he also restated the aim of fewa to support electrical and water needs in the north.

Frankly its all bollocks and the battle has already been lost it's a matter of when democracy arrives now not if. Protests will be put down for now but with satellite tv Internet access and a western education and living experience middle east autocracy is finished.

Granted a few Shia will cause as much trouble as they can but then so are a few Sunni and more than one or two so called Shia thugs in Bahrain have been caught with police and ministry of interior I'd on them a trick Mubarak also tried

shiftdelete

to be fair, the 'peaceful protestors' offering flowers and peace are sometimes bullshitting so much it must be embarrassing to the rest of the country- at one stage there were more policemen killed than the 'massacre' being portrayed by all their tweets.

Many are desperate to become heroes, they will do anything- it must be hard not to shoot at someone who is trying their best to be shot at- I mean at what stage of a physical assault do you react? remember these cops are not crowd trained in latest techniques like kettling...

The two ringleaders were caught early this morning trying to fly out the country while those indoctrinated by 'you know which country' were fighting for their cause- what kind of shit is that?....

norsk

I agree with that, but the thing that happened in Bahrain over the last week was a bit more than the call for democracy. The table was opened by the crown prince and no topic was excluded, but some opposition parties refused to participate. The government left the offer on the table and thought that these parties would eventually come to their senses. I sincerely believe that Bahrain's government (read royal family) were ready to reform and move further towards a constitutional monarchy.

However, what happened next is that the parties who did not want to negotiate decided that they would take the whole country hostage by terrorising normal people, stopping shops and businesses from operating (including Bahrain Financial Harbour) and completely trashing the main university (as well as other things). This triggered the other Bahraini's (Sunni and Shia) to come out and protect their homes. Some of them also went on to confront the thugs. This meant the country was effectively at war (although the army/police was not involved at this point). This was extremely scary for most people living in Bahrain. At this point the government asked for assistance from the GCC forces, and they arrived shortly after and obviously all hell has broken loose since.

It is important to understand that there is a huge difference between the people who wanted political reform and the people who want revolution. The media has to large degree ignored this. Whether this is intentional or not is difficult to tell, but I am getting more cynical by the day.

Unfortunately I cannot see this ending well. Bahrain as a united nation is finished, the people on the two sides will never be able to live together in peace. I think what most outsiders have missed is that this is no longer a purely sectarian issue.

shiva

Will reply later from a pc. But remember this started over a month ago. The first violence was a massive over reaction by the police and govt. That opened the flood gates for the "opposition" to fly back into the country and hijack what was a call for reform. That's largely gone tits up since I agree however its still non excuse for the use of tanks against civilians.

The royal family have had no intention of reforms beyond the token gesture made a lon time ago which was just enough to appease opposition force in the US, without who's support the khalifas would have fallen some time ago.

Agreed that negotiations stalled I suspect this is because of those first and peaceful protestors it came as a)a surprise and b) as a disparate group they had no leaders to actually conduct talks (nb similar has happened in Egypt)

It serves all but those who see genuine change to label this as a sectarian revolution rather than gentle reformation. The west wants predictable dictators, the dictators like being in charge, the media like to simplify it to a Iran va the world denarii, Saudi fears both Iran and reform I suspect reform scares them a lot more.

As for united it never was. Peaceful may e united no. Any state with apartheid within it is not united by definition Tunisia and Mohammed bouazziz have inspired a few hundred million Arab kids that change is not only a future idea but is possible and in fact their right.

Unfortunately in Bahrain they have run up against the most vested interests of all and a unified gcc who are positively shitting themselves at the idea of democratic revolution, throw into that mix the idea of actually listening to the Shia minority and treating them as citizens and you have the future Lebanon that is Bahrain.

On a plus poi y at least Bahrain can stop pretending it's a future financial capital of the globe

redheart

bahrain was and l will use the words lightly a 'united nation' through the subjugation of majority of the population. the ruling family only have themselves and their greed to blame. dont deny people their revolution, that is the only way people in the middle east may get any semblance of policital reform.

shiva

Quick one norsk. When did Norway throw out Sweden as it's rulers?

norsk

In 1905 we finally got rid!

shiva

Genuine qu because whilst I know you flung them out and still celebrate it today, I don't know if it was peaceful or not?

The reason I ask is I assume you feel it was justified for the norwegians to seek self determination independance and representation, if so how is that different from young bahrainis seeking to do the same (even if 90% of them are Shia)

norsk

You mean your reply isn't long enough?

I don't think anyone would disagree about the initial overreaction, and yes it did trigger the release of a lot of people who were thugs before they were arrested and I'm sure the time in the nick did nothing but make them more determined to create havoc.

I'm not sure there has been any tanks against civilians by the way (not since the initial overreaction anyway). As far as I'm aware the GCC forces are maintaining security and not being used against protestors. This doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but I haven't seen any evidence of it.

Before the recent offer from the Crown Prince I agree 100%. They were dragging their feet with the promised reforms. ***** me it's taken 10 years already... I think they realised after initial debacle at the Pearl Roundabout that they had a disaster on their hands, and needed to do something. Hence the offer of open table from the CP. Better late than never was my thinking..

There is that to consider, but also there is the fact that some of the demands I heard talked about were pretty outlandish; government to pay off people's personal debts, cancel debt collection of electricity bills, release convicted murders and so on. Those are bollocks demands in my opinion..

Absolutely.

Personally I'm not convinced the discrimination was as blatant as what has been claimed, but then again I sit on the outside as an expat. I don't know the details, and everything is made very polarised when described to me by Bahrainis (for effect and to gain sympathy I guess).

You're absolutely right in that they were inspired, however I don't think they necessarily know what they want exactly. Most Arabs I have spoken to since this all kicked off have no idea what democracy means. So do you think there will be democracy in Tunisia and Egypt in a few years? I'm not convinced..

The financial capital of the globe thing was always a bit of joke to be honest, but there is a hell of a lot of GCC money invested through Bahrain financial institutions so it will be interesting to see where that money will move to...

norsk

There was plenty of tension and probably some trouble, but the separation was mainly peaceful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolu...Sweden_in_1905

Well considering we were originally in a union with Denmark for about 400 years (by choice) and then when Denmark sided with Napoleon (who obviously lost the Napoleon wars) we were handed to Sweden as compensation. The situations cannot be compared though as we were still a separate country with our own government and constitution. In fact we were more democratic than Sweden and this was one of the sticking points of the union....

shiftdelete

90 percent - really?

shiva

not sure what your getting at. what i mant was 90% of the protesters

shiva

not sure what your getting at. what i meant was 90% of the protesters

shiva

the crux is the right to self determination and a say in your own country in 2011 i think we can all agree it should eb a universal right