Hello.Kitty

Just an FYI really... I came home to find that the Child Benefit people had already sent me a new claim form accompanied with a rather interesting leaflet explaining exactly who can claim.

Here's a summary that may be of interest... not int he least that they seem to be preparing for opening up residency status (maybe with a view on catching more taxes) by detailing what exactly constitutes "ordinarily resident" and going on to say that you can actually be "ordinarily resident" in more than one country at a time...

Anyhow, here's the crunchy part...

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[taken from the leaflet C5 - Child Benefit if you are coming from abroad or going abroad]

A person must be present, ordinarily resident and have a right to reside in the UK to get Child Benefit.

Meaning of presence
Normally, you have to be physically present in teh UK every day during the period of a Child Benefit award. But there are rules that allow your right to Child Benefit to continue during short temporary absences. Please see "going abroad temporarily" on page 13 [or later in this post!]

Meaning of ordinary residence
You are ordinarily resident if:
- you normally live in the UK (apart from occasional temporary absences) and
- you have chosen to live and settle in the UK for the time being.
We have given some examples below that may help to show whether you are ordinarily resident in the UK. Normally, none of these examples on their own will show that a person is, or is not, ordinarily resident:
- if you are here for recreational or temporary purposes (such as a holiday), this is likely to be a sign that you are not ordinarily resident
- if you intend to leave the UK in the near future (apart from occasional temporary absences), this may show that you have not settled here and are not ordinarily resident
- if your visit to the UK is part of a regular pattern of visits over a number of years, or is the start of such a pattern, this may sow that you are ordinarily resident. The more frequent, the longer the visits, the more likely you are to be ordinarily resident
- if your partner and children have also come to live in the UK, this may show that you and your family intend to stay in the UK and so are ordinarily resident.
- if you have a settled home in the UK - for example, you have bought or leased a home here, this may show you are ordinarily resident. It does not necessarily mean you are not ordinarily resident if you have not bought or leased a home here - there may be other reasons for this, such as lack of means.
- if you have already lived here for 3 years or more, we would normally accept that you are ordinarily resident. But if you have lived here for less than 3 years, this does not mean you cannot be classed as ordinarily resident.

A person can be ordinarily resident in more than one country. The fact that a person might be said to have a home in another country does not mean they cannot also be ordinarily resident in the UK

Right to reside
[self explanatory really]

Going abroad permanently

You must tell us straight away if you, your child, children or all of you leave the UK permanently or for an absence that is likely to last more than a year when you leave.
If you are going abroad permanently but your child is staying in the UK and living with someone else, the person they are living with should get in touch with us to claim Child Benefit.

Going abroad temporarily

You will be treated as being abroad temporarily if your absence is unlikely to last more than a year when you leave.
If you go abroad temporarily, you can continue to get Child Benefit:
- for up to 8 weeks, whatever the reason for your absence
- for the first 12 weeks if you go or stay abroad because you are, or a member of your family is receiving treatment for an illness or disability or because a member of your family has died.
You can make a new claim to Child Benefit while you are abroad temporarily, so long as you are ordinarily resident in the UK.

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Meow

I have written about this and answered questions on this topic a few times. In the simplest terms - you are not entitled to claim Child benefit if you don't live in the UK in a permanent basis (ordinarily resident).

I have always found it odd that there are people who think they can claim a UK benefit when they have chosen to be UK non-resident for tax purposes and don't live there. Like all UK benefits (incl the NHS) it doesn't matter whatyou have previously paid in, all that is relevant is where you are residing right now.

A good idea to draw this to people's attention Hello.Kitty.

rowell

Like all UK benefits (incl the NHS) it doesn't matter ............in other words we should have holiday insurance when living in Dubai but returning for holiday? I still get my UK prescription brought across, best stop that!

Hello.Kitty

Yup, I posted it because it's actually the first time I've seen such a clear explanation on the matter. For me, it's a no-brainer that you can't be permanently resident abroad for tax purposes and yet claim to be ordinarily resident in order to get all the benefits that the UK has to offer...

BUT what I found really interesting was their definition of temporary absence and ordinarily resident, which seems to allow for extended periods away, even if you are residing in another country... which quite simply means that I - who am not permanently resident abroad for tax purposes - can claim (should I wish to) when I am in the UK, for the periods that I am there.

This would in theory also apply to all the other families who spend extended periods in the UK (like summer).

The flip side of this is that through their definition of "ordinarily resident", they could catch more people who claim to be "permanently and ordinarily" resident abroad - home in the UK, pattern of visits over a number or years, etc... I'm just wondering if they're actually gearing up to catch more expats for taxes, just like they've suggested in the past.

Blue Cat

I know a few who are here who were claiming it, idiots

Hello.Kitty

well, they really ought to start considering how much they risk losing. If they're found out, not only will they be liable to pay back all the benefit they received whilst abroad, but I would also imagine that their case, so to speak, would also come to the attention of the tax people.

But... some people just don't play by the rules and won't be told.

soukie

Agreed - it is also much easier to catch people who are in and out of the UK now as they scan passports on entry to UK airports. Also the local education database shows pupil records, past and present, for all children attending UK state and private schools and it's a dead giveaway if the children aren't on the database.

Hello.Kitty

yup... and I've just found out that Child Benefit will be means tested from 2013 - I thought it was just the Child Tax Credits - and so those on the higher tax brackets won't be able to get it... so they are linking it all up!

Bob

The NHS will cover emergency treatment but they are under no obligation to offer other treatment and it was at the discretion of the doctor. They do seem to be cracking down on health tourism a lot these days and have been sending bills out to people.

Meow

If you are not resident then strictly speaking you are not entitled to free NHS treatment, but some doctors turn a blind eye, quite likely due to the paperwork. They say it varies by health authority, but the rules are pretty much the same everywhere.

There is a bit of a grey area for people who have been out of the UK for a relatively short period. By this they mean five years, but the individual would also need to have worked in the UK for a continuous period of 10 years prior to leaving and may have to produce evidence to this effect.

Meow

That's the law. And you should have internationl medical insurance.

I am sure UK taxpayers are delighted to be subsidising your prescriptions even though you are not paying UK income tax. You can't have it both ways.

Bob

Anyone in the UK is entitled to free emergency treatment.

Everything else, you've got to be ordinarily a resident of the UK to get it.

typical

As has been mentioned, there are some (surprising) exceptions:

• treatment for accidents and emergencies as an outpatient in a hospital’s accident and emergency department. Emergency treatment in a walk-in centre is also free of charge (England and Wales only). However, if you are referred to an outpatient clinic or admitted to hospital from an accident and emergency department, you will be charged
• compulsory psychiatric treatment
• treatment for certain communicable diseases, such as tuberculosis, cholera, food poisoning, malaria, meningitis and pandemic influenza. Testing for the HIV virus and counselling following a test are both free of charge, but any necessary subsequent treatment and medicines may have to be paid for
• family planning services.

Bahtatboy

I'm with Kitty on this one--I also smell the widening of "ordinarily resident" (or whatever they'll term it in the future) to catch more expats for income tax. When the income tax rules change (or are clarified) this year I think many of us will be in difficult situations.

However, on the point of not having it both ways: I probably pay more tax in the UK than the average UK worker--the only thing I don't pay is income tax, but since my family are there I still pay council tax, private dental insurance (which is indirectly supporting the NHS), road tax, fuel tax, VAT, insurance tax, TV licence, NI and probably quite a few other taxes that I can't think of right now. I certainly wouldn't feel I was freeloading if I got the odd subsidised prescription or free doctor's consultation.

soukie

At least your wife/partner can legally claim child benefit if your family are still in UK. I think it will be interesting to see how they assess who is entitled to child benefit from 2013 - it seems a stange system being suggested as the entitlement will cease if there is one higher rate tax payer in the household. However, 2 lower rate tax payers can jointly earn more than the higher rate tax payer but still claim child benefit. BB if you are a non tax payer I'm not sure how it will work for you as your wife/partner will be the claimant!