Highoward

I currently work as a Quantity Surveyor in Saudi (though my background is slightly different). I have currently 2 years experience in UK plus 2 years in Saudi.

My 2-year contract finishes in July when I will leave. I guess anyone gets sick of the country.

Though I am quite tired of the place, I have applied to some local offices in Saudi with no success (they lose their interest completely when I explain them my "expected package" - I just tell them my current one + 5000 SAR per month). Also tried other countries in the region (Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman) with no luck. It seems that because of the (bad) construction job market in most Western countries, competition is rife in the Gulf. A friend of mine in Saudi got a job offer last week for Bahrain (probably some expat left because of the unrest) and the offer was 500 GBP less per month than me... while having 5 years more experience than me!. Whatever. Anyway I am a bit tired of the Gulf inestability. I mean, even if I would be move to, for example, Abu Dhabi (which is much nicer than Riyadh) I would have still the issues of the Visa; you know that anyday your employer can fire you and you gotta leave the country and give up your life. Somehow I prefer more stability and freedom to do what I want.

So here I am. I am planning to leave, and eventually moving back to UK/EU (no visa-hassle) and looking for a job somewhere else, whether there or in any emerging economy.

My concern is how Saudi experience (working for a Saudi company (!)) will be regarded outside. I am pretty scared on that point.

Something I experienced is that many people think that Saudi salaries are absolutely extravagant. I have been taking a look at this forum and also from acquitances, Saudi salaries today for expats are not definitely what they used to be many years ago and not much higher that salaries in the West pre-tax (since they are taking advantage on the crisis). Especially because I have only 4 years experience, I will be competing for medium-entry salaries and I wonder if many employes would dismish my CV because probably they think I will be not motivated if I don't get paid "big bucks".

Also, how working for an unknown (in the West) company will be regarded?

I guess political/religious-wise is not an issue, business is everything... while probably having worked in Saudi will not get me a job in a Kibbutz in Jerusalem, it should be a big hassle anywhere else.

Which are your experiences with this? Any comment welcomed!

weasel central

The position you are in unfortunately is that you don't have enough experience as a westerner for either KSA or Europe to command a high salary.

As you are probably fairly well aware most QS in KSA are either Arab or Filipino because the role is considered mostly like an admin role, rather than the contract aspects it has in Europe. For this reason the ME companies would rather have 5 filipinos than 1 westerner, you need to pitch yourself as a surveying manager rather than surveyor to overcome this.

You need to get more western experience unfortunately, and this is difficult at the moment and jump up out of the lower paid pool.
But in general I wouldn't feel too worried, get your CV out there and don't jump at the first thing offered, my feeling is that slowly things are improving in the ME jobwise, especially Qatar,Oman and KSA. But do try write your cv showing that you are more managerial than your current role.
Your salary right now seems very low by the way, without getting too personal are you from an asian background?

nottmbantam

Weasel - I didn't see where the OP stated his monthly salary?

I don't know much about the whole QS world, so can't comment on that really. GOing back to the points in the OP, I do agree, the salaries offered in Saudi are not that much greater than in the UK, but of course there is the huge difference that Income Tax makes.

I have found - generally speaking - that the overall 'package' for Saudi will be better in comparison to the other GCC countries. e.g. Saudi companies will invariably offer accommodation as part of the package, whilst many other companies 'only' offer an allowance. My own package includes housing, flights and a very generous educational allowance as school fees can be so high here and in other Gulf countries.

That seems to make sense to me, as I think Saudi has to try a little bit harder to attract people here in the first place, with it being so strict and conservative. THe other countries can quote ' lifestyle' within the benefits pacakage - KSA certainly can't do that.

Recruitment in this neck of the woods can be painfully slow and from my and my wife's experience, it is also a total shambles most of the time - disorganised and unstructured and never ever done on time.

Don't get too disheartened when you apply for a position and you hear nothing for weeks, they probably haven't even got round to sifting the applications.

One of the things you might want to do is to post your CV on several job sites:

monster gulf
naukri gulf
gulf talent
bayt

Some employers just search CV's rather than put out an ad.

Good Luck.

weasel central

aha misread the post, i thought he said his salary was 5000SR, but re-reading he said salary + plus 5000SR. My mistake.
Current salary levels for a QS with 10-15 years experience in KSA is around 6000 dollars per month plus package.

Highoward

Thanks a lot for your replies.

@weasel central,

I am not from Asian/ME background. Yes, I am very aware of the Arab/Filip thing... plus they are more and more qualified (plus Arabs have the language). That happens in every profession for what I see, except very managerial roles. I tell them 5000 SAR per month more than what I do now because honestly you know changing jobs in Saudi (or the GCC) is not as easy as in the UK or any other country (NOC Letter, iqama, etc. a mess) so any change should be worth a good raise because it would be for at least 1-2 years.

I would say that my salary is not "great" but not that bad considering the economic circumstances (esp in construction) + little experience... that's the issue... I saw the salaries in my company and for my salary they can pay 4/5 Filipinos (not to mention other things as car, etc.) so I feel "stuck". I definitely do more than in the UK (not to mention free housing, no taxes... well nothing u don't know here). I try to emphasize the managerial role/skills but even so, as you say they can get some unemployed QS in Ireland, the UK or anywhere with 10 years more experience than me and he would be happy to take the job.

Basically my salary is slightly lower than what you say in your last message. For example, I have a friend with that experience (10 years) who came in 2008 (before the meltdown) working for Western company and his salary is around 9,000 USD + package (and 3 months holiday!). Big difference before/after crisis. But that's normal, who QS would move in 2007/08 to Saudi when construction was booming in the UK or he could do that salary in Dubai? Now is definitely very different.

@nottmbantam, I feel that things in Saudi are definitely worse than 2009 in terms of job market... The issue I see is that back in 2009 Saudi was still very "remote" and still many Westerners were not keen into moving for any money... now two years after the crisis Saudi does not seem that bad. Despite Saudi is not very attractive, so many long-term unemployed people (probably with mortgages, kids) see Saudi as a "desperate" solution and employers know that... I can see that everyday; there are WAY more Westerners now in Saudi than when I arrived... sometimes I feel a "pioneer".

So I am keen to definitely leave... at least I have some good savings to stay unemployed for a while in worst-case scenario. I wonder how Saudi experience (working for a local company) would be regarded back in Western civilization.

Anyone has experience working for local and coming back? I bet I should aim to work for MN construction companies with jobs in crappy countries, probably if you have survived 2 years in KSA you can survive anywhere ... well good thing about construction is that you can always explain (even show pics/websites) of projects you have been involved in.

weasel central

I haven't experienced the return factor from the ME to Europe myself but I think its not a huge deal if your college and initial work experience was in the UK.
There would be more of a problem I suppose when the ME experience starts to overtake your UK experience, as the general feeling is the ME work practices and skills tend to lag a long way behind.
However the positives are that you have sucessfully worked and adapted to a new country and work environment, also KSA projects tend to be high value so it looks good on your CV to have one of these massive contracts listed.
I worked on a 7Billion SR contract when I was in KSA and people always comment on it when they see it on my cv, but the reality was of course while it was huge it was the typical arabic shambles of a project, just larger!
One thought also is that you could pitch your cv at UK based multinationals, they may price work in the ME from the UK and your experience could be valueable to them.

TOPCAT_14

Hi Highoward and others..I was wondering what are my chances in finding a job in the ME in QS? I have a masters in Civil Engineering + 2 years work experience.

If I went out there for, say~ two weeks, how easy is it to find a job in quantity surveying. A lot of people tell me its all about who you know and not what you know, (the same kinder applies here) but, do I have a better doing the rounds and visiting companies ?

How different is job hunting in the ME region compared to the UK? For example, in the UK there’s lines of recruitment agencies where you can pop in and enquire about jobs. Do they have a similar thing in Saudi or UAE? Or is it literally a case of going on site and saying “giizajob “ ?

Any advice/comment would be appreciated

Cheers

littlejimmy

As was alluded to earlier in the thread, junior level QSs are usually sourced from places like India and Sri Lanka where they can get 5 QSs for the price of one Westerner. It’s not uncommon to find job specs asking for 10-15 years of experience.