Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Middle East > ME Job Discussions
Reload this Page >

ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Old Jun 11th 2009, 6:55 pm
  #46  
BE Enthusiast
 
lanarkwitch's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Cairo :-(
Posts: 376
lanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to all
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Originally Posted by Karlos The Jackal View Post
100K a month Lanarkwitch, we the 'plebs' were on nowhere near that! If I am honest my salary was roughly 2K a year more than the job I gave up in the UK.
Yes of course there is the lack of tax sitution but i didnt go just for the money I wanted a better lifestyle and a new challenge and being perfectly honest I would have probably gone to AD on less money!

How times change.............older and wiser (Hopefully!)
We didn't come for more either karlos, just the tax element and for DH to get experience on a bigger project, in reality I'm not sure the way things work here stand you in good stead for going back home, pretty quickly we realised we'd do a couple of years here, get a good project on the CV and go home before he learned too many bad habits!!

I like to think of myself as one of the more realistic people in AD, work hard, pay a few debts off (right a few wrongs in other words) and try to have a good weekend, no maids, no pajeros, no fannies, it's my motto in life.

Good luck mate in your job search, perhaps you could PM your details and DH can submit them to the appropriate authorities in his place as they have some stuff coming back online
lanarkwitch is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 7:03 pm
  #47  
ex-expat
 
Hello.Kitty's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: in front of my computer - in sunny Sussex!
Posts: 2,162
Hello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

I'm sorry, but borrowing money from other projects - or rather charging time to other projects - because of miscalculations or over-optimism (or indeed under-costing in order to get the job) is really quite common in the construction industry on all sides. It's often a risk "Management" are willing to take.

Yes, it's stupid, yes, it's not "the right thing to do" and yes, sometimes people get royally shafted... generally those who actually do the work and not those who make these decisions.

Even though you, and many, many others have been made redundant as part of this situation, to name and shame and divulge financial and strategic information about your now ex-company is almost certainly in breach of your old contract. Confidentiality clause, anyone? No amount of bad feelings justifies the level of detail you are going into.
Hello.Kitty is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 7:09 pm
  #48  
BE Enthusiast
 
lanarkwitch's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Cairo :-(
Posts: 376
lanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to all
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Originally Posted by Hello.Kitty View Post
I'm sorry, but borrowing money from other projects - or rather charging time to other projects - because of miscalculations or over-optimism (or indeed under-costing in order to get the job) is really quite common in the construction industry on all sides. It's often a risk "Management" are willing to take.

Yes, it's stupid, yes, it's not "the right thing to do" and yes, sometimes people get royally shafted... generally those who actually do the work and not those who make these decisions.

Even though you, and many, many others have been made redundant as part of this situation, to name and shame and divulge financial and strategic information about your now ex-company is almost certainly in breach of your old contract. Confidentiality clause, anyone? No amount of bad feelings justifies the level of detail you are going into.
Personally I would uphold that confidentiality clause in the same respect the company has upheld its "duty of care"
lanarkwitch is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 7:17 pm
  #49  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 88
n1na is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Something is very wrong in the reporting by EXALOR. Let us change the perspective, and return several years ago...

Laing O'Rourke is a VERY reputable company with fascinating references... They make a deal with ALDAR for 'cost plus fee'. They set up a very sophisticated company in the country far away from Europe and managed to bring both highly paid specialists and cheap labour.

ALDAR got the great opportunity to sell the flats more expensice than in London while paying the cost of cheap labour. It was a great business. Laing O'Rourke got their fixed 'fees', but they were for sure significantly smaller than ALDAR's profit.

But..... After the worldwide crisis suddenly struck UAE, nobody wanted to purchase flats at all.

ALDAR did not like 'cost plus fee' contracts any more. And, Laing O'Rourke said 'thank you, we are not interested'.

If you continue to claim how Laing O'Rourke is bad, please be honest and answer the simple question:
What should Laing O'Rourke do?

I find the decision of Laing O'Rourke very, very smart. Of course, many expats had to be fired.... but they have been hired under assumption that ALDAR will go ahaed with the project.

We all make own decision. But, it is wrong to blame someone else if the things end up belly up.

Last edited by n1na; Jun 11th 2009 at 7:23 pm.
n1na is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 7:26 pm
  #50  
ex-expat
 
Hello.Kitty's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: in front of my computer - in sunny Sussex!
Posts: 2,162
Hello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Originally Posted by lanarkwitch View Post
Personally I would uphold that confidentiality clause in the same respect the company has upheld its "duty of care"
True - I'm not trying to excuse bad practice - but at the end of the day this seems to have decended into a tit-for-tat name-and-shame. Whereas confidentiality clauses do bind employees for lengths of time after employment ceases (for whatever reason), I'm not entirely sure if the employer's duty of care towards the employee includes the direction of internal financial policy, nor the assurance that they will not be made redundant due to higher-risk choices.

Choice is the operative word... it is highly plausible that had Management not tried to mitigate the obvious shortfall, or indeed had they presented the real bill to the client, the project would have ground to a halt long before it did. Faced with a "stop it right now" or "wing it and see" situation with repeat work, a few hundred staff relying on the outcome and multi-million pounds in the mix, what would you do? (Rhetorical question - no answers on a postcard please) Indeed, what could you do?

It's a sh*t situation - I've been there before too - but sometimes it's just a case of keeping your dignity and integrity when the people you thought you could trust seem to have lost all theirs.
Hello.Kitty is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 7:32 pm
  #51  
BE Enthusiast
 
lanarkwitch's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Cairo :-(
Posts: 376
lanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to all
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Jesus Christ
lanarkwitch is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 7:33 pm
  #52  
BE Enthusiast
 
lanarkwitch's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Cairo :-(
Posts: 376
lanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to all
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

No I haven't gone religious but I'd see him in Marina Mall before i'd see the "real" bill for that job
lanarkwitch is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 7:51 pm
  #53  
ex-expat
 
Hello.Kitty's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: in front of my computer - in sunny Sussex!
Posts: 2,162
Hello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Originally Posted by lanarkwitch View Post
No I haven't gone religious but I'd see him in Marina Mall before i'd see the "real" bill for that job
lol - EXACTLY!

I don't think I've ever been involved in a major job that was adequately priced for consultancy fees - that's why we're expected to do unpaid overtime and sh*t. I've also been on projects that have taken shocking calculated losses just "to get a foot in the door".

It's risky business, but there you go.
Hello.Kitty is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 8:18 pm
  #54  
BE Enthusiast
 
lanarkwitch's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Cairo :-(
Posts: 376
lanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to alllanarkwitch is a name known to all
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Originally Posted by Hello.Kitty View Post
lol - EXACTLY!

I don't think I've ever been involved in a major job that was adequately priced for consultancy fees - that's why we're expected to do unpaid overtime and sh*t. I've also been on projects that have taken shocking calculated losses just "to get a foot in the door".

It's risky business, but there you go.
Consultancy Fees, thats a gig I need to get into
lanarkwitch is offline  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 8:52 pm
  #55  
BE Forum Addict
 
Karlos The Jackal's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Dust Bowl - Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,219
Karlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeKarlos The Jackal has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

At the end of the day you read what you want, you believe what you want and you judge the rights and wrongs as you see fit!

Many of the hundreds and hundreds of Ex-Pats have and still are coming to the same conclusion, not everyone can be wrong!

There was no point in building 34,500 'high class' apartments in the current climate and I think the majority of ALOR employees would agree that the work would come to a standstill, the financial state of the world told everyone that.

The biggest problem and grievence was how the redundancies were handled and the apparent lack of assistance from the mangement team it was almost a 'couldn't give a toss attitude', they were making people redundant days from there 12 months gratuity period, people were having to leave days off being paid their 5K, 6K, 7K...........whatever, that hurt a helluva lot of people and obviously upset a lot of people, therefore you have disgruntled employees.

On a personal basis I dont regret going to ARB, yeah I am pissed off with the outcome and yeah I would love to still be in AD, do you blame ALOR, Aldar, Laing O Rourke or the 'local' management?

ARB was run as and operated as a business unit, make your own minds up people!
Karlos The Jackal is offline  
Old Jun 12th 2009, 7:53 am
  #56  
BE Forum Addict
 
soukie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,633
soukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

OK let's be honest about this, LOR went into a JV with ALDAR and proceeded to rip them off and got found out - that's about it. Unfortunately the fallout is a human one and the management team in LOR are to blame for losing the trust of the client. The loss of jobs is down to the fact that LOR have been sacked themselves and the economic downturn is conveniently being blamed. The Al Raha beach is still going ahead and tenders are currently out now for parts of the job - I haven't seen the words "LOR don't bother to apply" but I haven't seen their name mentioned either!

When you revisit what happened it could never really have worked as the poacher was paying the gamekeeper - the delivery side were paying PMS who were the client's representative and supposed to be looking after the client's interests but when anyone stood up for the client they were reminded who paid their wages and told to keep quiet.
soukie is offline  
Old Jun 12th 2009, 7:57 am
  #57  
BE Forum Addict
 
soukie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,633
soukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond reputesoukie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Good to see you back on the board Karlos
soukie is offline  
Old Jun 12th 2009, 8:05 am
  #58  
ex-expat
 
Hello.Kitty's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: in front of my computer - in sunny Sussex!
Posts: 2,162
Hello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond reputeHello.Kitty has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Originally Posted by soukie View Post
the delivery side were paying PMS who were the client's representative and supposed to be looking after the client's interests but when anyone stood up for the client they were reminded who paid their wages and told to keep quiet.
sure, but that is the standard set-up in an NEC contract - the good thing/problem with the NEC is that it relies heavily on openness and open-book proceedures - a difficult idea to grasp for some contractors in the UK and a truely laughable concept in the ME.

It's a better form of contract that most, but still, if any parties refuse to cooperate with the principle behind it, then it fails spectacularly, as has obviously happened in this case.
Hello.Kitty is offline  
Old Jun 12th 2009, 9:24 am
  #59  
Banned
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 151
Taz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to all
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Originally Posted by soukie View Post
OK let's be honest about this, LOR went into a JV with ALDAR and proceeded to rip them off and got found out - that's about it. Unfortunately the fallout is a human one and the management team in LOR are to blame for losing the trust of the client. The loss of jobs is down to the fact that LOR have been sacked themselves and the economic downturn is conveniently being blamed. The Al Raha beach is still going ahead and tenders are currently out now for parts of the job - I haven't seen the words "LOR don't bother to apply" but I haven't seen their name mentioned either!

When you revisit what happened it could never really have worked as the poacher was paying the gamekeeper - the delivery side were paying PMS who were the client's representative and supposed to be looking after the client's interests but when anyone stood up for the client they were reminded who paid their wages and told to keep quiet.
Hi I work in engineering not construction, but I'm certain that when a client appoints a MAIN contractor they (as ALOR) can let out tenders/packages of parts or phases of the job to other contractors - tier one, specialist subcontractors etc. It seems reasonable to me that on a 10+ year project that the main contractor wont set out to do all the work themselves.

Also how can you get 'sacked' from a 10 year contract?

Taz
Taz Mirza is offline  
Old Jun 12th 2009, 9:27 am
  #60  
Banned
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 151
Taz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to allTaz Mirza is a name known to all
Default Re: ALDAR LAING O ROURKE REDUDANCIES

Originally Posted by Hello.Kitty View Post
sure, but that is the standard set-up in an NEC contract - the good thing/problem with the NEC is that it relies heavily on openness and open-book proceedures - a difficult idea to grasp for some contractors in the UK and a truely laughable concept in the ME.

It's a better form of contract that most, but still, if any parties refuse to cooperate with the principle behind it, then it fails spectacularly, as has obviously happened in this case.

Isnt it the client who stipulates what form of contract will be awarded?
Taz Mirza is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.