Andrew Halikias

Soliciting advise. Here's my situation:

I am a Greek national that lives and works in the USA for just over 2
years on a L1 visa. The basic reason why I am here is my fiance, we met
3 years ago when I visited the US for business. We moved to Illinois
together, bought a house together a year ago and we are getting married
at the end of December. We were planning to come back and then do the
paperwork for me to get my status changed.

Well, you know what they say about the best layed plans. My company just
layed me off unexpectedly. I will be off their payroll in December, 2
days before we are supposed to fly off for the wedding and 10 days
before the happy event.

Now the situation is screwed up and I am not sure where I am standing.
How do I come back in the USA? Do we need to get a fiance visa before we
leave for the wedding or apply for a spouse visa when we get back? How
do we get back? How long does any of these procedure take?

We did not have to worry about any of this before so now I am a bit
overwhelmed. Any advice will be much appreciated. Any sites/info too.

Thanks,

Andrew

Caro

You can not apply for a fiance visa if you are already married. Since the wedding is already planned for very soon (and you probably don't want to replan it for in 6 months or so), it would come at the bottom of the list of possible options. I don't think it is the best solution in your case.

Here are 2 things that I would investigate in your case:
a) Direct consular filing in Greece. See what the residency requirement for the US citizen (I assume that your fiancee is a US citizen) are to do direct consular filing in Greece.
b) Go to the courthouse and file for AOS ASAP! Before that, check what the filing procedures for I-485/I-130 are at your local INS office. It might be that you can apply in person. Then, you might be able to obtain an "emergency" travel permit (DO NOT LEAVE THE US WITHOUT ADVANCE PAROLE ONCE YOU SUBMIT YOUR AOS!) to go to your wedding in Greece (check how that would work. Ask the Greek consulate about whether you can get married legally in the US and in Greece (to the same person). If not, is it possible to make your marriage ceremony something religious or just a celebration without legal value?). This option might involve rescheduling the wedding in Greece if the INS screws up, but at least you would not be separated with your spouse.

Getting married in Greece and doing a spousal visa would take forever (from the NG, some people have been waiting over 6 months for their foreign spouse to come to the US).

To sumarize, the best situation for you would be a). If a) is not possible, and since you are already in the US, I would advise b)! The spousal visa and then fiance visa would be last options I would pursue. For b), you have to move really quickly to get a chance to attend yoru wedding in Greece.

Hope that helps!
Caroline

Shannon

I didn't realize you can apply for AOS before you are married. What is the basis for the application? I'm not disagreeing with this advice, just never heard of it myself.

Shannon

Caro

Maybe my post was not clear. You have to get married to be able to adjust the status. b) is getting married at the courthouse in the next couple of days and filing for AOS with the INS just after that.

Sorry for the confusion.

Caroline

Andrew Halikias

Some great advise, thanks.

A couple of additonal questions:
a) Does that require that I am in Greece and that I remain in Greece the
whole time until I get a visa? How long could that take??


To throw another parameter in this, I have a 10-year Business visa to
the USA that I could use to re-enter the US. Also, although it does
sound a bit risky, my L1 allows me multiple entries (I travel a lot for
business regularly). Since my official off-payrol date is December 6, do
you think the INS will know about me being out of status by the time I
return? (1/4/03) If that is successful, could I file for a spouce visa
being here in the USA?

So many questions, so many parameters. I guess we could go down to the
Courthouse and get married in a jiffy, but that is hardly what you'd
want for the once-in-a-lifetime event (or so I am told ). I would like
to avoid that if possible.

Also, assume that we do get married tomorrow and I file for the AOS and
everything, can I work with that visa? Also, how long would that take
(average obviously). The morgage is running.....

Thanks,

Andrew




Caro wrote:

    >>Soliciting advise. Here's my situation:
    >>I am a Greek national that lives and works in the USA for just over 2
    >>years on a L1 visa. The basic reason why I am here is my fiance, we
    >>met 3 years ago when I visited the US for business. We moved to
    >>Illinois together, bought a house together a year ago and we are
    >>getting married at the end of December. We were planning to come back
    >>and then do the paperwork for me to get my status changed.
    >>Well, you know what they say about the best layed plans. My company
    >>just layed me off unexpectedly. I will be off their payroll in
    >>December, 2 days before we are supposed to fly off for the wedding and
    >>10 days before the happy event.
    >>Now the situation is screwed up and I am not sure where I am standing.
    >>How do I come back in the USA? Do we need to get a fiance visa before
    >>we leave for the wedding or apply for a spouse visa when we get back?
    >>How do we get back? How long does any of these procedure take?
    >>We did not have to worry about any of this before so now I am a bit
    >>overwhelmed. Any advice will be much appreciated. Any sites/info too.
    >
    > You can not apply for a fiance visa if you are already married. Since
    > the wedding is already planned for very soon (and you probably don't
    > want to replan it for in 6 months or so), it would come at the bottom of
    > the list of possible options. I don't think it is the best solution in
    > your case.
    >
    > Here are 2 things that I would investigate in your case:
    > a) Direct consular filing in Greece. See what the residency requirement
    > for the US citizen (I assume that your fiancee is a US citizen) are
    > to do direct consular filing in Greece.
    > b) Go to the courthouse and file for AOS ASAP! Before that, check what
    > the filing procedures for I-485/I-130 are at your local INS office.
    > It might be that you can apply in person. Then, you might be able to
    > obtain an "emergency" travel permit (DO NOT LEAVE THE US WITHOUT
    > ADVANCE PAROLE ONCE YOU SUBMIT YOUR AOS!) to go to your wedding in
    > Greece (check how that would work. Ask the Greek consulate about
    > whether you can get married legally in the US and in Greece (to the
    > same person). If not, is it possible to make your marriage ceremony
    > something religious or just a celebration without legal value?). This
    > option might involve rescheduling the wedding in Greece if the INS
    > screws up, but at least you would not be separated with your spouse.
    >
    > Getting married in Greece and doing a spousal visa would take forever
    > (from the NG, some people have been waiting over 6 months for their
    > foreign spouse to come to the US).
    >
    > To sumarize, the best situation for you would be a). If a) is not
    > possible, and since you are already in the US, I would advise b)! The
    > spousal visa and then fiance visa would be last options I would pursue.
    > For b), you have to move really quickly to get a chance to attend yoru
    > wedding in Greece.
    >
    > Hope that helps!
    > Caroline
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
    >

Folinskyinla

Hi Andrew:

Allow me a metaphor -- you are in a room full of gasoline vapors and you want to know what will happen if you play with the matches in your hands. Or maybe picture Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry asking: "Do you feel lucky today?"

As an attorney, I can't begin to advise you what to do other than stay in Greece, don't use either of those visas to get married in the US and do the whole thing while waiting in Greece -- no matter how long it takes! There may, or may not, be ways to speed things up. It varies.

One of the non-attorneys on this board has suggested using a risk/benefit analysis. All I can tell you is to follow the law, I can't advise you to break it -- if you have broken it, I can then tell the effect of that fait accompli.

Any possiblity of the company putting you back on payroll for a month or two to clean up things in the US??

Caro

a) is much faster than a spousal visa. It usually takes less than 3 months and is sometimes even much faster. However, not every country has it, and the requirements are different. For example, in the Netherlands, it is my understanding that the US spouse can just show up at the US Embassy if one of the spouse is dutch (and you were married in the Netherlands?) and do direct consular filing. In Paris, however, the US citizen has to be a resident of France (i.e. have lived at least 3 months and be in possession of the French residency papers) to be allowed to do a direct consular filing. So, you (and possibly the US spouse, I am not sure) might have to stay in Greece a bit but nothing compared to the regular spousal visa (US spouse goes back to the US and files an I-130 with a service center and maybe also a K3 and it takes a very long time, over 6 months). After doing direct consular filing, when you go through immigration, it is my understanding that your passport is stamped with a "green card stamp" and you are good to go!



Although I am not sure on that one (please Rete or Matt or Foliniskya, come to the rescue here!), I think that the INS might give you a hard time with visa fraud because you would be using a non-immigrant visa when you really had immigration intentions. But, not once again, I do not know enough legal stuff to answer this one for sure. I hope Rete or one of the attorneys will follow up on my post to confirm or infirm what I just wrote.



I do not know what an L1 is exactly, so I can not tell you.



This is kind of what we did. We decided to get married after graduation (May 2002, I was in the US on a student visa) in September 2001, realized how much of a mess it was with INS, and went to the courthouse on November 2nd, 2001 which left time for my parents to organize a trip to the US for the occasion, and we had a religious wedding in France in May 2002. It wasn't really that bad, and I have really good memories of both weddings (very different!) and now, we have 2 occasions to celebrate... Let's see the positive side !



Big important thing: this is only my understanding, and you really have to check on this! If you get married tomorrow and send an AOS, I believe that you can still work on your L1 visa until you get the work authorization from the INS (EAD) associated with filing for AOS (Adjustment of status). However, to leave the country, once you have filed for AOS, you NEED to have a travel authorization (Advance parole) otherwise you abandon your petition and you are in a huge mess. You can not use your visa anymore at that point. Now, if you leave the country with your travel authorization and come back, I am not sure that you can keep working with your L1 status. You need to have the EAD (at least this is my understanding from the posts I have read).

The thing that I am more worried about is whether you will be able to leave the country with your AP for your wedding in Greece. The processing times for the AP depends on the INS offices. You are eligible to apply for an emergency travel authorization at the INS office once you have a receipt number for your AOS application. This seems crazy but it takes some offices a long time to open the enveloppe and issue you a receipt (without which you can not get your emergency travel document). There might be a way around it, but I don't know it. You will be going through Chicago I presume. A lot of people on this NG are dealing with Chicago, and if you do a search, you might be able to get some information about this.

The only painless option that allows you to be with your spouse and have the wedding in Greece is a) (but it might not be possible. Search the NG for people from Greece, there might be some good info). Option b) allows you to be with your spouse but you are not guaranteed the wedding in Greece. If you move very fast and the INS doesn't screw up, I would say that it is possible to have both. The spousal visa option allows you the wedding in Greece but you have to be separated from your spouse for probably over 6 months maybe more unless you can enter on one of your visas (but check very carefully to know if you can do that). The fiance visa is the worst because you have to give up both the wedding in Greece and being with your spouse/fiancee.

Hope that helps,
Caroline

Caro

Forgot to reprecise. b) will only work if you can have a non-legal/non-registered wedding in Greece once you are already legally married. I would assume it is possible, but the laws in different countries are so different that it is worth reprecising. [In France, you have to get married twice anyway if you want a religious wedding.]

Caroline

Shannon

Andrew is currently in the US. What is the problem with his marrying his fiance in the US while on his L1, applying for AOS and only leaving the US for the foreign ceremony once his AP is approved? What law would be broken in that case?

Shannon

Folinskyinla

Hi:

I read it as he was outside of the US and in Greece at this time in that he had temporarily departed the US.

If he is currently in the US, there is no probelm with him pushing up the marriage [if the big church one is planned -- then do a courthouse one now for legality and still have the church wedding later -- done all the time]. He could then do the conventional combined process filing at the local district with concomitant employment authorization and advance parole.

Caro

First, I am sorry to have mispelled your name in my previous post.

I read his post as him being in the US (he bought a house in illinois, the mortgage is running, he is on a L1 visa, and he is getting off payroll in December, so all that lead me to believe that his was in the US. If he is not in the US, what I said doesn't apply.).

I am "worried" that if he gets married right now and do the AOS that he might not have a travel authorization to be able to go to the scheduled wedding in Greece (middle of December if I count correctly). I just wanted him to be aware of it. If DCF is not available for him and if it was me, I would get married right away, even if it means calling off/postponing the wedding in Greece, but this is just me.

This is why the only option that allows him to have everything for sure is the DCF option, but it might not be an option. I don't know

Caroline

Paulgani

"Folinskyinla" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > All I can tell you is to follow the law, I can't
    > advise you to break it -- if you have broken it, I can then tell the
    > effect of that fait accompli.

USC arrives in your office. Tells you that she is getting married next week
in the U.S., and she wants to hire you to do the immigration paperwork. You
ask, where is your fiance? She says, he's still in XXX, but will be
arriving in the U.S. in a couple days on the visa waiver.

Of course, you advise her of the significant risks he is taking at the POE.
You may even give her something to read similar to my "Entry Risks" essay.

She hesitates, and gets all upset. After all, 300 people are coming to the
wedding, from all over the world. Besides, he's visited her on the visa
waiver "several times" in the past year, and he's never had any problems.

So, she declares that he's coming anyway, and that she still wants to hire
you for the (AOS) paperwork.

1 - Do you/can you take the case?
2 - Assuming you are able to/willing to take the case, do you offer any
advice to her fiance as to reduce his risk of problems at the POE?

or, alternatively, do you defer taking the case, and tell them to come back
when or IF he successfully enters the U.S.?

Paulgani

Des

Hi Andrew,

just an idea - why not go have a court wedding asap in the US, and
file all the AOS paperwork the next day. Apply for Advance Parole for
the big wedding in Greece, depart in December to get married over
there, and then come back on AP.

For AOS after the court ceremony you need to file I-130, I-485, I-765
(EAD), I-864, I-131 (Advance Parole), and the I-693 medical (get a
list of INS-approved doctors asap!). The EAD takes up to 90 days to
get but if you file, say, in a week's time, then you could have it by
February.

As you are already living in the US, don't bother with spouse visas or
DCF - you need to be living in Greece for that. And it takes a long
time before you can re-enter the US, it's really not worth your time!

- Des




Andrew Halikias wrote in message news:...
    > Soliciting advise. Here's my situation:
    >
    > I am a Greek national that lives and works in the USA for just over 2
    > years on a L1 visa. The basic reason why I am here is my fiance, we met
    > 3 years ago when I visited the US for business. We moved to Illinois
    > together, bought a house together a year ago and we are getting married
    > at the end of December. We were planning to come back and then do the
    > paperwork for me to get my status changed.
    >
    > Well, you know what they say about the best layed plans. My company just
    > layed me off unexpectedly. I will be off their payroll in December, 2
    > days before we are supposed to fly off for the wedding and 10 days
    > before the happy event.
    >
    > Now the situation is screwed up and I am not sure where I am standing.
    > How do I come back in the USA? Do we need to get a fiance visa before we
    > leave for the wedding or apply for a spouse visa when we get back? How
    > do we get back? How long does any of these procedure take?
    >
    > We did not have to worry about any of this before so now I am a bit
    > overwhelmed. Any advice will be much appreciated. Any sites/info too.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Andrew

Folinskyinla

Paul:

This is a usenet group and not an examination on legal ethics. I happen to like practicing law and would not like to jepordize my licenses [if one state nukes my license, the fallout kills the second state I'm admitted to].

Also, legal ethics professors like to point out that the DUTY of confidentiality applies to the ATTORNEY and not the client inasmuch as the attorney-client communication privilege belongs to the client and not the lawyer.

Some of my colleagues in the criminal defense bar have put forth the maxim that rather than considering your client as a person, you should visualize a micrphone which is connected to a tape record in the local US attorney's office.

Paulgani

"Folinskyinla" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I happen
    > to like practicing law and would not like to jepordize my licenses [if
    > one state nukes my license, the fallout kills the second state I'm
    > admitted to].

Of this I have no doubt. But you didn't answer the question. Would
you/could you take the case, either at that point, or after the alien fiance
arrived?

Paulgani