Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

okay so ive tried to get info online before..this board format seems a lot easier though..and i dont quite know what to say or how stupid i am going to look but i am desperate so bear with me..here is a timeline and some facts followed by my questions..


nov. 1st 2000 - my boyfriends first visit from the uk (we met on my 16th birthday and this was when we were both 18)

january 10th 2001 - my soulmate and very best friend has to go back,he extended his visit as long as possible. he came over on a visa waiver. i felt like i was going crazy without him around the house,without him to hold..i wore his hoodie every day and my left sleeves wrist was constantly wet from my sobbing.

march 25 2001 - he comes back because we cant bear to be apart. he had said on the phone before this visit that in september hed be off to uni where he would stay until 2004..i couldnt stand that thought but was grateful for any and all time i could have with him

june 5th 2001 - we get married..by a magistrate in a prison :D just decided we really couldnt handle being away from each other ever again. lot of unhappy to say the least phone calls from his family who have since come around,at least a lot more than before. sweet j had to hear a lot of hard phone calls but he stayed with me despite what everyone was saying. we honestly didnt plan on getting married,he was even asked that since he returned so soon but he had indeed planned on going to uni so while it isnt what the ins would consider "ideal" we did get married "legally".

june 22nd 2001 - sat in the airport watching his plane leave and listening to his name being called while no one knew we were right there. another reason i was glad for him staying was it was storming terribly...pouring rain and terrible lightning :/

dec..i'll have to get the date but i believe it was recieved on the 26th? ins got our papers...heres the kicker,our local guy had no clue what a visa waiver is and hes in charge of immagration things at a local office here..how scary is that? and we were not told at all what we would need...just the I-130..thats it...so thats what we sent. it was sent to texas,we were recently sent to nebraska,and they lost our pictures along the way. well we sent those and recently got a letter...a letter saying he was denied. and basically,in three months would be kicked out..that was a few weeks ago,again i'll need the letter for the date as i am very tired and its 2:41 am here.

in a panic i call ins and im put through to an ins officer because the guy i got at first kept asking me if he had done anything wrong and if he was here legally..when he found out everything was fine he didnt know what to think so he switched me over. thank god he did. i got this woman who at first was very snippy with me and was saying,well that means he has to go back! like "of course,stupid now leave me alone what do i care about your problems??" and i end up bawling over the phone. she asks me all sorts of questions and i think she actually came to like me and understood just how sad i was and how important it is to me to sort all this out. she finds out he was here on visa waiver and assures me thats the problem so he doesnt have to leave,i just need to reapply,this time at the charleston office (we live in york county below charlotte nc) and when she finds out we werent told of the,oh,8,7000 or so OTHER forms we needed along with the I-130 she was shocked. she rattled the ones i need off pretty fast thoug (oops) but ah well she provided much more help than ive ever gotten before that. and lately the ins hangs up on me (lets hope its just an office hours thing or i wont know WHAT to do..!!) anyway this is getting long so heres my questions..



we cant find his visa waiver slip..this has got me a wee bit freaked out as i am so very afraid that will be important. j (my husband) thinks if we do need it perhaps theyll be some sort of record somewhere proving he came over on one but im not sure..we used to keep it tucked in with his passport but its gotten lost along the way and i dont think we can find it.

we had a son in october of 2002 and are expecting again in january of 2005 (weve also had several-8-losses) does the ins need any info on him at all? and if i were to apply for medicaid since i dont have insurance and im pregnant so cant get any now-i know,im stupid..does that go against me? i also dont have a job..doubly stupid..i was told my grandmother and mother,who we live with,can be co-sponsers but..i feel *I* need to do SOMETHING or i might as well just slap a denied sticker on it myself,right?

what forms will we need? like i said i think i have them all down and right but id like to know for certain..

do i have to let the tx/nb/wherever the heck they were sending us know im going to reapply? the ins officer said not but i thought id check just in case anyway..

our plan is if he were to be rejected id just go back to the uk with him and try and go through the process myself thee..but i worry they wouldnt like that,that i would be rejected,then what?

im just so nervous and scared and worried and i feel so stupid and finding good info out there is hard to do. i want truth and facts and HELP..i just want a little help..i love j beyond words..hes my everything..and we need to be together..of course we always loved each other,3000 miles away or not..in fact we never even kissed anyone else except for each other,before or after becoming a couple..but you know what i mean about being together im sure...right?

i hope i havent annoyed people by being longwinded. i hope i dont seem as stupid as i feel. and i hope someone out there cares enough and knows enough to just give me some help..even just a little help would be nice...thank you for listening.

J & M T.
Plus Our Angels,G,And Jan. Baby


sometimes i wish we could go hide on some island somewhere and just be together with no fears of being told bad news..but i know it is completely worth it to go through all of this..if we just knew exactly what to do and got some straight replies itd be easier to deal with but no matter who we call or get sent to or anything at all official we never seem to get the same reply from people. i figured who better to ask than those who have been there personally themselves.

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

Sounds like you need serious legal advice. More that is available on a discussion board

There is a Marriage based Forum on this site, and that would be a better bet to post in.

Also you could have a look at www.visajourney.com.

UK Immigration is much more straightforward and fast: see http://www.britainusa.com/, there is a page listing the issues for Marriage based immigration.

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

oh yikes i thought i had posted on the marriage based forum..(*head under sand*) sorry...and thank you for replying..i know i ramble on and im kind of embarrassed for going all "life story" on everyone..i will certainly check out the sites that you posted...again thank you very very much..

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

Not a prob. I was going to start asking questions as there are gaps in your info, but I really do not know enough about the issues so I will leave that to others.

Good luck.

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

its alright,i dont mind questions at all and would be happy to answer any at all- but then again as im in a "talky" nervous mood with all thats on my mind with all of this paperwork business id probably leave you snoozing on your keyboard,drooling and completely bored (that is not to say you that drool..hmm..oh dear i will stop now before i make this sound worse)..heh..anyway its 4:42 here and G is asleep (he keeps odd hours,hes kind of part boy,part owl!! :)) so i suppose J and i had best try and sleep too so i will go for now. im very glad someone replied to me (and in a kind helpful manner instead of a "go away freak" manner,thank god) i half hoped someone would (well i really hoped someone would..) but pretty much expected a lot of eye rolling. can you tell i dont think highly of myself and worry people will think i am nuts or something? thing is i think my being that way actually makes it worse :D but yes,thank you so so much again and god bless/take care. have a good night! (i also sound very self centered in this post. blah..)

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

sorry to hear about your problems! if you arent 100% sure about what youre doing with the forms then go get a lawyer to help you, it will be worth it for your peace of mind, the forms can be super confusing! good luck! :) xxxxxxx

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

Thanks a bunch boiler.

The lady is going hell bent for 90 and doesn't know how to lay out her life story but rattles on and on without making much sense.

Questions:

1. Who was in prison that you had to get married in prison? If it was you, I am assuming you are out on parole or served your sentence. Criminal activity of a USC will not make a difference anyways to the USCIS.

2. Didn't you go to the USCIS site for information and to order your forms? And don't you know there is no INS but there is an USCIS.

3. Didn't you mention you have an attorney?

4. Why do you need a Waiver?

5. Why was your application sent from Texas Service Center to Nebraska? Did you move?

6. Why didn't you file everything for your baby err husband at the local district office governing where you live?

7. Can Mommy and Grandma prove support for themselves, you, husband, and child at 125% of the poverty guidelines.

8. Has hubby done anything illegal such as work?

9. Do you receive any type of welfare or housing assistance?

You might want to group www.visajourney.com. They are very good with problem filers.

Rete

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

OfLoveAndFears <member27335@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by Boiler
    > > Not a prob. I was going to
    > start asking questions as there are gaps in your info, but I really do
    > not know enough about the issues so I will leave that to others.
    > >
    > >
    > Good luck.
    >
    > its alright,i dont mind questions at all and would
    > be happy to answer any at all- but then again as im in a "talky" nervous
    > mood with all thats on my mind with all of this paperwork business id
    > probably leave you snoozing on your keyboard,drooling and completely
    > bored (that is not to say you that drool..hmm..oh dear i will stop now
    > before i make this sound worse)..heh..anyway its 4:42 here and G is
    > asleep (he keeps odd hours,hes kind of part boy,part owl!! :)) so i
    > suppose J and i had best try and sleep too so i will go for now. im very
    > glad someone replied to me (and in a kind helpful manner instead of a
    > "go away freak" manner,thank god) i half hoped someone would (well i
    > really hoped someone would..) but pretty much expected a lot of eye
    > rolling. can you tell i dont think highly of myself and worry people
    > will think i am nuts or something? thing is i think my being that way
    > actually makes it worse :D but yes,thank you so so much again and god
    > bless/take care. have a good night! (i also sound very self centered in
    > this post. blah..)


You should get an immigration lawyer but also understand the process
involved. For starter, go to http://uscis.gov and Click on
"Greencards" and read section related to Petition for spouse.

To understand the purpose of each forms, at htpp://uscis.gov, click on
"Forms" and read the purpose, the fees, and what other forms that must
be attached. Also, read the requireemnt of that other forms.

Here is a summary of the process:

Regardless of what his previous visa (or visa waiver), once he is
married to a US citizen, you as a US citizen can file an Alien
Petition (I-130) and also at the same time, he can apply for permanent
residency via adjustment of status (use I-485 form) since he is inside
US. For things that must be attached with these two forms, go to
https://uscis.gov. With I-130, it would just be Birth Certificate or
proof of his birth date; with I-485, there would be sponsor form
(I-684 I beleive; requireemnt of I-864 can be fullifilled by a
cosponsor if you do not make enough income).

The moment he can file I-485, he can also apply for EAD (I-765), and
alos may be Travel Permit (I forgot the form name, may be I-131). The
reason you guys can file I-130 and I-485 at the same time is that
there is no quota for spoues of US citizens.

To understand what's involved in filing I485+EAD+.., read the
following link.

http://tinyurl.com/5t9w5

By the way, the receipt of filing I-130 would allow him to get instate
tuition fees at the university as long as he has already resided in
that state for one year.

Get a lawyer and Good luck.

BTW, don't worry too much.

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

Amanda wrote on 8/4/2004 10:53:
    >
    > By the way, the receipt of filing I-130 would allow him to get instate
    > tuition fees at the university as long as he has already resided in
    > that state for one year.

That depends on the university/state.

-Joe

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

Rete: thanks loads. im only terrified,was tired as tired gets when i wrote it,and have called EVERYONE I CAN THINK OF TO GET HELP WITH NO LUCK. i said i sounded stupid. i said i rambled. so i know that part already :(

*sigh* sorry..i just feel very stressed out..i know i risk sounding like i dont know the difference between a cat and a dog are but i figure if i DONT ask then i'll really be in a jam so i went for it. im not used to asking people about this...not online,anyway,so im sure i could have done a better job explaining it all. if i left out any of the emotions to it and just provided a timeline,it would probably be less of a snore to read or wouldnt be as confusing. but im a nervous wreck. i want people to know that i am desperate and really in need of help. and that i will do anything at all that i have to in order to help J.

anyway in answer to your questions:


1. "Who was in prison that you had to get married in prison? If it was you, I am assuming you are out on parole or served your sentence. Criminal activity of a USC will not make a difference anyways to the USCIS."

we got married there because it was a few days before he had to go back..it was an unplanned wedding so what we did was we got married by a magistrate. thats all,no one served any time for anything,people just get married "in prisons" all the time. neither my husband or i have ever stolen so much as a stick of gum so we dont have a record or anything of that sort. perhaps i should have made that more clear in my first post. dont want people thinking ive been doing time (since i havent)


2. "Didn't you go to the USCIS site for information and to order your forms? And don't you know there is no INS but there is an USCIS."

i got my form (one form..i was only told of ONE form..and THIS from someone who is supposed to help people with the process,very annoying and one of my problems,i wasnt told of half of what i need) and yes,i have seen the website but it doesnt cover half of my concerns and if it does then i havent found it yet. and yes,i know its not called ins anymore but its been on all the papers weve recieved and im just very used to calling it the ins. maybe i should get in the swing of trying not to call it that but its very much what ive been used to before now.


3. "Didn't you mention you have an attorney?"

no but with the way things are going i probably ought to have. since we're near charlotte it shouldnt be too hard to find someone.


4. "Why do you need a Waiver?"

i dont know that we do,but he came over on visa waiver,and i dont have that slip of paper. ive been worried they would ask for it and right now its missing from our files somehow. we have a folder we keep things in and that paper (the visa waiver) was tucked into his passport. its lost now and even the little things worry me. i know i am stupid of a lot of what i should know but its not because i havent TRIED,we have. we just get ran in circles,everyone says something different,and we keep getting sent to office after office for god knows what reason. i just NEED HELP badly. im more than willing to do whatever i need to help him stay but we have been going through this for years with no one "official" ever saying the same thing twice. it isnt easy emotionally or mentally when you are told to do this by one person and then that by another..you just want to do it the RIGHT way the first time..which didnt happen with us,we've been put into some sort of immagration circus or something,its just crazy all that we've been told so far. thats why im looking for the perfect way to go about all this so we wont face anymore troubles in the future and i need to get the papers we need filed AGAIN the proper way very soon.


5. "Why was your application sent from Texas Service Center to Nebraska? Did you move?"

thats the thing,your guess is as good as mine :confused: i know we sent it to texas because it was where we were told to send it to (strike one for whoever told us that one...being in sc,obviously texas isnt our local office) so we did as we were told. dunno why we got sent to nebraska of all things either,they just did. and lost our pictures between here and there so there was a rush to get new ones and find a place that knew how to and had proper film,someone who knew how to do them correctly,and so on. since theres been the problem because of only sending in the I-130 and nothing else (strike two against whoever told us THAT one....this is why im trying to find the answers myself instead of even asking someone who supposedly knows what they are talking about,i dont care where they work if they are giving me wrong info then something is WRONG with that) and him coming on visa waiver only,i believe our things are being sent somewhere in the NE (i could be wrong about that) but at any rate our papers are bounced around like you wouldnt believe and we dont know why. we havent moved (though we plan to but we will tell the office we will use before we do)

6. "Why didn't you file everything for your baby err husband at the local district office governing where you live?"

G has his birth certificate (not SS # as of yet because he hasnt had any shots so he cant be issued one,but will soon) so i was just wondering if they needed to know we had a son..silly question maybe but i dont want to leave anything out that needs to be there. thats happened to us (through no fault of our own,just going by what the office told us) so yeah...worth asking i thought.

7. "Can Mommy and Grandma prove support for themselves, you, husband, and child at 125% of the poverty guidelines."

we're doing ok. and i want to work. i need to find a place to work and i will. id go to work scooping rhino poo if it meant J could stay here.

8. "Has hubby done anything illegal such as work?"

not one thing. in fact he finds it frustrating because he CANT do the things hed like to do (ie,he was learning to drive before he came over and cant here without a SS #)..and he wishes he could work,but he wont do anything that isnt "allowed"..and hes never done drugs or had anything to taint his record in england,either.

9. "Do you receive any type of welfare or housing assistance?"

nope and nope. ive never been on welfare,ever,and neither has anyone in my family. and this house is owned by my grandmother and has been since we moved to sc (from the midwest) when i was very young.



"You might want to group www.visajourney.com. They are very good with problem filers."

i had a brief look at that last night before going to bed and it looks good and i am indeed going to check it out/join..

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

thanks you eggysbrain..i am certainly going to have to look into getting a lawyer...if for nothing but our peace of mind!! its something i have thought of in the past but need to start seriously looking into now me thinks..we can,i hope,find a good one who actually gives two hoots.. :D

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

thank you amanda..very helpful info and much much needed,i will look into it all...i didnt know about the whole university bit either,J may be quite pleased to know that as there are various classes hes wished he could take but we didnt realize he actually could. i dont know if i can help the worry im feeling..but at the same time worry or no worry,i know it must be done. cant run from it,and its so worth doing. i find it hard to relax but i know id probably help everything greatly in doing so.. :o

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

i'll have to check about our local uni then..we have one very nearby. thanks joe! :)

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

"OfLoveAndFears" <member27335@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > okay so ive tried to get info online before..this board format seems a
    > lot easier though..

here is a timeline and
    > some facts followed by my questions..

    > nov. 1st 2000 - my boyfriends
    > first visit from the uk (we met on my 16th birthday and this was when we
    > were both 18)

    > march 25 2001 - he
    > comes back because we cant bear to be apart. he had said on the phone
    > before this visit that in september hed be off to uni where he would
    > stay until 2004..i couldnt stand that thought but was grateful for any
    > and all time i could have with him
    > june 5th 2001 - we get married..by a
    > magistrate in a prison

O.K. -- why the prison?

    > june 22nd 2001 - sat in
    > the airport watching his plane leave

    > dec..i'll have to get the date but i believe it was
    > recieved on the 26th? ins got our papers...heres the kicker,our local
    > guy had no clue what a visa waiver is and hes in charge of immagration
    > things at a local office here..how scary is that? and we were not told
    > at all what we would need...just the I-130..thats it...

That was probably what an INS official should have said. A person is really
not *supposed* to file Form I-485 after having entered the U.S. in visa
waiver status, although under certain circumstances, a person who entered in
WT status *can* be successful in filing I-485.

The problem is that you did not get professional advice from the beginning,
which includes information that INS employees may not know or cannot say.
Your husband could have become a permanent resident long ago.

so thats what we
    > sent. it was sent to texas,we were recently sent to nebraska,

North Carolina is in the service area of the USCIS Texas Service Center, so
your place of filing was correct for an I-130 filed by itself. See
http://uscis.gov/graphics/fieldoffic...htm#anchorAREA. The
transfer from TSC to the Nebraska Service Center was also normal. USCIS
transfers these cases from place to place to work on backlogs.

and they
    > lost our pictures along the way. well we sent those and recently got a
    > letter...a letter saying he was denied. and basically,in three months
    > would be kicked out..that was a few weeks ago,again i'll need the letter
    > for the date as i am very tired and its 2:41 am here.

Why was the I-130 petition denied? What did the denial say? You must
address this issue, because the next I-130 may have the same problem.

    > in a panic i
    > call ins

i got this woman who at
    > first was very snippy with me

she finds out he was here on visa waiver and assures me thats
    > the problem so he doesnt have to leave,i just need to reapply,this time
    > at the charleston office (we live in york county below charlotte nc)
    > and when she finds out we werent told of the,oh,8,7000 or so OTHER forms
    > we needed along with the I-130 she was shocked. she rattled the ones i
    > need off pretty fast thoug (oops) but ah well she provided much more
    > help than ive ever gotten before that.

    > we cant find his
    > visa waiver slip..

This is the Form I-94, Arrival-Departure record, a key document.

this has got me a wee bit freaked out as i am so very
    > afraid that will be important. j (my husband) thinks if we do need it
    > perhaps theyll be some sort of record somewhere proving he came over on
    > one but im not sure..we used to keep it tucked in with his passport but
    > its gotten lost along the way and i dont think we can find it.

It is important. Your application must be filed with either the original
I-94, or an I-102 application to replace the I-94.

    > we had a
    > son in october of 2002 and are expecting again in january of 2005 (weve
    > also had several-8-losses) does the ins need any info on him at all?

There are questions about the children of the beneficiary on both the I-130
and the I-485. Also, dependents have to be counted on the I-864. Be sure
to answer every question accurately as of the date of signing the forms.

and
    > if i were to apply for medicaid since i dont have insurance and im
    > pregnant so cant get any now-i know,im stupid..does that go against me?

Yes. There is a question about this on the I-864.

    > i also dont have a job..doubly stupid..i was told my grandmother and
    > mother,who we live with,can be co-sponsers but..i feel *I* need to do
    > SOMETHING or i might as well just slap a denied sticker on it
    > myself,right?

As the I-130 petitioner, you must complete and sign an Affidavit of Support,
Form I-864, to show that your husband will not become a public charge. You
must do this even if your income and assets do not meet the required
standard. Your grandmother and mother can complete Form I-864A, and their
income can be added up to try to meet the required income and assets. Or,
either one of them or both can sign their own I-864 as a "joint sponsor." I
suggest you download a copy of this form and read the instructions very
carefully.

    > what forms will we need?

I-130, I-485, I-765 (don't file I-131 as your husband cannot leave the U.S.
before he becomes a permanent resident, or he will be subject to a 10 year
bar before he can get back into the U.S. again)

G-325A for you
G-325A for your husband
I-102 if you cannot find the I-94
I-864

and many supporting documents. Please note that Amanda's tinyurl site does
not fit your situation exactly, as it does not reflect the concurrent filing
of an I-130. Also, there is no need for any foreign police certificates to
be filed with an I-485.

like i said i think i have them
    > all down and right but id like to know for certain..
    > do i have to let
    > the tx/nb/wherever the heck they were sending us know im going to
    > reapply?

No. But you must correctly answer the question on the I-130 about whether
you have filed an I-130 before, and what happened to it.

the ins officer said not but i thought id check just in case
    > anyway..
    > our plan is if he were to be rejected id just go back to the
    > uk with him and try and go through the process myself thee..but i worry
    > they wouldnt like that,that i would be rejected,then what?
    > im just so
    > nervous and scared and worried and i feel so stupid

Maybe you could tone down the "nervous and scared and I feel stupid" talk.
It saps your energy. Remember that the messages that you give yourself and
that you repeat over and over (how many times in these newsgroup posts??)
have a lot of power.

You're a grown woman now, with a husband and children, and you have got to
act like it. You may be young, but you have taken on serious
responsibilities as an adult. And your feelings will eventually reflect
your behavior.

and finding good
    > info out there is hard to do.

    > sometimes i wish we could go hide on
    > some island somewhere and just be together with no fears of being told
    > bad news..but i know it is completely worth it to go through all of
    > this..if we just knew exactly what to do and got some straight replies
    > itd be easier to deal with but no matter who we call or get sent to or
    > anything at all official we never seem to get the same reply from
    > people.

It is well known that USCIS (formerly INS) employees are not likely to give
reliable information. We on this newsgroup know of stories where following
INS employee's advice ruined people's lives. You cannot follow the advice
of everybody and his brother on a newsgroup. What applies in someone's
situation may not be applicable in your situation. None of these people can
take the time to analyze your situation and cover all the separate, complex
issues. Look at all the items mentioned in this post -- and I'm sure there
are many many more questions that must be answered. It isn't realistic to
expect a "straight reply" or the "same reply" to all your inquiries.

To be expert in immigration law and practice, as good immigration attorneys
are, a person must be constantly educating himself or herself, probably an
average of some hours of reading every day. Also these attorneys have
experience with a great variety of cases. Most USCIS employees simply do
not have the background to tell you everything you need to know.

You should have an immigration attorney check over your package before you
file it. At least ask for the help of some kind of professional in
immigration practice. Free or low-cost legal assistance is available. See
http://uscis.gov/graphics/lawsregs/advice.htm. In any case, you can't
afford NOT to get professional help.

You should make a photocopy of every item you file with USCIS before filing.
I'm not sure whether you can file in person, or whether you have to mail in
the package. Here are some sites:
http://uscis.gov/graphics/fieldoffic...te/aboutus.htm
http://www.kamya.com/aos/ncarolina.html#charlotte

Re: Scared And Dont Know WHAT To do..
 

First off, discount the advance parole information Amanda gave you. If your husband applied for it and got it and used it by going outside of the country, he would not be allowed in for x number of years as from your timeline, he is out of status for more than 180 days. 180 days marks the line of no "departure". You leave you incur a ban.

You need forms:

I-130 Immediate Relative
I-485 Adjustment of Status
(2) G-325A's biographical forms
(2) I-864 Affidavit of Support -- 1 for you and 1 for your mother and/or grandmother
I-764 Employment Authorization Document (EAD)

All are to be completed in detail, all attachments asked for attached, all financial documentation asked for in the I-864 even yours though you don't qualify. You still have to include it.

The only major major problem you have is the pending I-130. You have to cancel that I-130 by writing the service center where it is and tell them that you are cancelling the I-130. Send it via a traceable mail and with proof of delivery. Keep a copy of the letter and a copy of the mailing receipt and proof and include that with your new filing at the local district office. You mention you are in Soth Carolina. You can file in person if you want there. That is probably the best approach.

Rete