Martin Thibodeau

Hi, everyone. I fully appreciate the existence of this group. It's great.

I am a Canadian citizen living on the East Coast and working as a graphic
designer at a big university. I will be renewing in June for a second year
with this employer. This will be my fifth TN visa app.

I usually go to Niagara Falls/Peace Bridge (for the last three years)
because the U.S. office has been professional and the people there are very
smart and helpful. On my last visit, however, I think I was processed by a
junior officer and he started asking some pointed questions, which I
expected, given 9/11, etc. But he made an interesting remark -- this was my
4th TN, how long was this going to continue... he asked. Is there a limit?

Since then, I have been about the stability of a TN.... What does anyone
suggest -- should I be worried? Is there an "unspoken" limit? Will being
with the same employer help or hurt my case? Should I at least have met with
an immigration lawyer prior to leaving this June?

Secondly, the airport where I live has a brand new international terminal,
with new BCIS staff, etc (I am assuming not all are new). While the trip to
Niagara can be done in a (long) day, I have been thinking about getting
renewed through an airport POE (like Toronto or Montreal). Are airports
better or worse as a POE for a TN? Does the processing happen in (Toronto or
Montreal) or would it occur when I return to my local airport (with what I
suspect is a young staff who may or may not know the vicissitudes of TN)?
Should I stick to my routine and do Niagara (or is it now more harsh than in
the past)?

Thanks in advance for any response or anecdotal info. Martin

S B

Martin Thibodeau wrote:

    > I am a Canadian citizen living on the East Coast and working as a graphic
    > designer at a big university. I will be renewing in June for a second year
    > with this employer. This will be my fifth TN visa app.
    >
    > I usually go to Niagara Falls/Peace Bridge (for the last three years)
    > because the U.S. office has been professional and the people there are very
    > smart and helpful. On my last visit, however, I think I was processed by a
    > junior officer and he started asking some pointed questions, which I
    > expected, given 9/11, etc. But he made an interesting remark -- this was my
    > 4th TN, how long was this going to continue... he asked. Is there a limit?
    >
    > Since then, I have been about the stability of a TN.... What does anyone
    > suggest -- should I be worried? Is there an "unspoken" limit? Will being
    > with the same employer help or hurt my case? Should I at least have met with
    > an immigration lawyer prior to leaving this June?

Yes, you should worry, although there is no official limit. The most
important thing is that your intentions should be temporary. Since an
H1B is for a max. of 6 years before you must spend one year out of the
US, a number of officers treat 6 years as a pretty confirmed limit for
"living" in the US on a TN. If you live outside the US, then it's a
little different.


    > Secondly, the airport where I live has a brand new international terminal,
    > with new BCIS staff, etc (I am assuming not all are new). While the trip to
    > Niagara can be done in a (long) day, I have been thinking about getting
    > renewed through an airport POE (like Toronto or Montreal). Are airports
    > better or worse as a POE for a TN? Does the processing happen in (Toronto or
    > Montreal) or would it occur when I return to my local airport (with what I
    > suspect is a young staff who may or may not know the vicissitudes of TN)?
    > Should I stick to my routine and do Niagara (or is it now more harsh than in
    > the past)?

You should consider doing it by mail ... you file form I-129 with a
cover letter much like the original TN letter, but with a very short
justification of your continued employment. When you file form I-129,
you send photocopies of all the documents you present at the border, and
you send a photocopy of the front and back of your current I-94 (don't
send the original in spite of what the instructions say).

The advantage of doing it by mail is that you aren't stuck on the wrong
side of the border if it goes wrong, and you aren't facing an officer
face to face with a nervous look that the officer picks up on and goes
after you. If refused you get some time to make some plans to leave.
If refused at the border, you're stuck.

Martin Thibodeau

    > From: S B
    > Newsgroups: alt.visa.us
    > Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 17:54:35 GMT
    > Subject: Re: Renewing TN via airport of POE?
    >
    >> clip 01
    > Yes, you should worry, although there is no official limit. The most
    > important thing is that your intentions should be temporary. Since an
    > H1B is for a max. of 6 years before you must spend one year out of the
    > US, a number of officers treat 6 years as a pretty confirmed limit for
    > "living" in the US on a TN. If you live outside the US, then it's a
    > little different.
    >
    >> clip 02 You should consider doing it by mail ... you file form I-129 with a
    > cover letter much like the original TN letter, but with a very short
    > justification of your continued employment. When you file form I-129,
    > you send photocopies of all the documents you present at the border, and
    > you send a photocopy of the front and back of your current I-94 (don't
    > send the original in spite of what the instructions say).
    >
    > The advantage of doing it by mail is that you aren't stuck on the wrong
    > side of the border if it goes wrong, and you aren't facing an officer
    > face to face with a nervous look that the officer picks up on and goes
    > after you. If refused you get some time to make some plans to leave.
    > If refused at the border, you're stuck.

Stuart -- thanks. Nothing like stoking the fires of anxiety... I-129 would
work, but I would have had to file over three months ago... I am seven weeks
away (lesson learned). I'd like to know if anyone else can support Stuart's
answer to clip 01 (see original post). I had also asked about the
validity/suitability of doing a return POE at Niagara or an airport.

Alternatively, should I take a stab at an H1-B? Does anyone know about the
EB series, esp. 2 or 3 and if a humble and lowly graphic designer would ever
be deemed worthy?

S B

Martin Thibodeau wrote:
    >
    > > From: S B
    > > Newsgroups: alt.visa.us
    > > Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 17:54:35 GMT
    > > Subject: Re: Renewing TN via airport of POE?
    > >
    > >> clip 01 >
    > > Yes, you should worry, although there is no official limit. The most
    > > important thing is that your intentions should be temporary. Since an
    > > H1B is for a max. of 6 years before you must spend one year out of the
    > > US, a number of officers treat 6 years as a pretty confirmed limit for
    > > "living" in the US on a TN. If you live outside the US, then it's a
    > > little different.
    > >
    > >> clip 02
    > > You should consider doing it by mail ... you file form I-129 with a
    > > cover letter much like the original TN letter, but with a very short
    > > justification of your continued employment. When you file form I-129,
    > > you send photocopies of all the documents you present at the border, and
    > > you send a photocopy of the front and back of your current I-94 (don't
    > > send the original in spite of what the instructions say).
    > >
    > > The advantage of doing it by mail is that you aren't stuck on the wrong
    > > side of the border if it goes wrong, and you aren't facing an officer
    > > face to face with a nervous look that the officer picks up on and goes
    > > after you. If refused you get some time to make some plans to leave.
    > > If refused at the border, you're stuck.
    >
    > Stuart -- thanks. Nothing like stoking the fires of anxiety... I-129 would
    > work, but I would have had to file over three months ago... I am seven weeks
    > away (lesson learned). I'd like to know if anyone else can support Stuart's
    > answer to clip 01 (see original post). I had also asked about the
    > validity/suitability of doing a return POE at Niagara or an airport.
    >
    > Alternatively, should I take a stab at an H1-B? Does anyone know about the
    > EB series, esp. 2 or 3 and if a humble and lowly graphic designer would ever
    > be deemed worthy?

Actually, no, you aren't too late. Your application must arrive at the
BCIS Northern Service Centre in Lincoln Nebraska before the expiry date
on your I-94. You then have up to 240 days that you can continue to
work quite legally or until your application is adjudicated. You can
continue working even though the I-94 has expired.

When you file the I-129, send it by priority mail, with a return receipt
requested. Take copies of everything you send for your records. The
proof of mailing with I-94 is your "safety net" for up to 240 days.



The EB visa is an IMMIGRANT visa ... i.e. a green card ... you'll
probably want to change to an H1B if you want to go that route and can
convince your employer to spend the mucho dinaro that will cost.

The H1B may be appropriate ... talk to your company and their lawyer,
but you'll still need to renew your TN because you'll not get the H1B in
time, and when you change status, you cannot continue to work as you can
when extending the TN.

Eric Matto

I'm a Canadian who lived/worked in Chicago in TN status from 1998-2002, so I
went through the original application as well as 4 renewals. I was laid off
by my employer in 2002 so came back to Toronto after just over 4 years away.
For the first time I went to get the visa at the Queenston-Lewiston crossing
a couple of weeks in advance of moving down to Chicago. I suppose I could
have got the visa when I was actually enroute to Chicago but I wanted to get
the visa ahead of time in case of any problems. All of my renewals were
handled by mail through Nebraska; I sent all the relevant paperwork to my
employer several months in advance of the deadline and they forwarded it
along with their letter and the fee. Each of the renewals went smoothly.

The TN is considered "temporary" so I made sure that my arrangements could
not be construed as anything more than that. I rented an apartment in
Chicago on an annual basis, and at the same time leased out my Canadian
condo for one year at a time as well. I don't recall being asked about how
long I was ultimately staying, though my answer would have been for a year
(to the expiry date of the visa) and any renewals were dependent on if my
employer wanted me for another year.

Regarding your question about airport vs. POE processing, the only thing I
can offer is that you would get processed at Toronto or Montreal since they
both have US immigration/customs pre-clearance services on check-in. Once
you've gone through, you've technically entered the USA while still in a
Canadian airport and your flight to the US would be a "domestic" one without
need to arrive at an international terminal upon arrival in the US. I would
check first to see if TN approval is possible at an airport before leaving
though to make sure that there is a NAFTA officer on duty and what the hours
for this would be.


"Martin Thibodeau" wrote in message
news:BADEB0BC.9302%[email protected]...
    > Hi, everyone. I fully appreciate the existence of this group. It's great.
    > I am a Canadian citizen living on the East Coast and working as a graphic
    > designer at a big university. I will be renewing in June for a second year
    > with this employer. This will be my fifth TN visa app.
    > I usually go to Niagara Falls/Peace Bridge (for the last three years)
    > because the U.S. office has been professional and the people there are
very
    > smart and helpful. On my last visit, however, I think I was processed by a
    > junior officer and he started asking some pointed questions, which I
    > expected, given 9/11, etc. But he made an interesting remark -- this was
my
    > 4th TN, how long was this going to continue... he asked. Is there a limit?
    > Since then, I have been about the stability of a TN.... What does anyone
    > suggest -- should I be worried? Is there an "unspoken" limit? Will being
    > with the same employer help or hurt my case? Should I at least have met
with
    > an immigration lawyer prior to leaving this June?
    > Secondly, the airport where I live has a brand new international terminal,
    > with new BCIS staff, etc (I am assuming not all are new). While the trip
to
    > Niagara can be done in a (long) day, I have been thinking about getting
    > renewed through an airport POE (like Toronto or Montreal). Are airports
    > better or worse as a POE for a TN? Does the processing happen in (Toronto
or
    > Montreal) or would it occur when I return to my local airport (with what I
    > suspect is a young staff who may or may not know the vicissitudes of TN)?
    > Should I stick to my routine and do Niagara (or is it now more harsh than
in
    > the past)?
    > Thanks in advance for any response or anecdotal info. Martin

CanExPat

My last TN was at Pearson Intl airport in Toronto. There was only two BCIS officiers adjudicating applications while about 6 or 7 were 'hanging' around. This was during a busy time at the airport.

You don't need to have a NAFTA officier to give you a TN, the regulars ones can and do, but they may not know the regulations very well and can cause problems.

Most of the applicants arrived less than two hours before their flight (some less than 1 hour) and missed it. I arrived 3 hours before my flight and missed it by 10 minutes...I had to reschedule for another flight the next morning! Don't expect them to have any sense of urgency and don't argue or rush them.

Martin Thibodeau

Thanks to Eric and Stuart for replying.

Eric, I note in the instructions and forms for the I-129 that renewal
categories include: E, H, L, O, P, Q and R. There is no TN. Now, normally
you would think that would not be a problem, but my employer takes things
like this VERY literally (as in, if TN is not on the form, we will not
submit it for a TN, etc.). Eric, how did you work around that one?

As for processing centers, the I-129 lists the Eastern Service center for my
contact office, rather than Nebraska. Stuart, is there a reason to go to one
over the other?

As for airports, the Toronto Int'l does have a TN specialist on staff, which
I found out yesterday. I'm starting to think that I should do the airport
thing, since I probably should have done the I-129 months ago....

Martin

    > From: "Eric Matto"
    > Organization: Bell Sympatico
    > Newsgroups: alt.visa.us
    > Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 22:34:00 -0400
    > Subject: Re: Renewing TN via airport of POE?
    >
    > I'm a Canadian who lived/worked in Chicago in TN status from 1998-2002, so I
    > went through the original application as well as 4 renewals. I was laid off
    > by my employer in 2002 so came back to Toronto after just over 4 years away.
    > For the first time I went to get the visa at the Queenston-Lewiston crossing
    > a couple of weeks in advance of moving down to Chicago. I suppose I could
    > have got the visa when I was actually enroute to Chicago but I wanted to get
    > the visa ahead of time in case of any problems. All of my renewals were
    > handled by mail through Nebraska; I sent all the relevant paperwork to my
    > employer several months in advance of the deadline and they forwarded it
    > along with their letter and the fee. Each of the renewals went smoothly.
    >
    > The TN is considered "temporary" so I made sure that my arrangements could
    > not be construed as anything more than that. I rented an apartment in
    > Chicago on an annual basis, and at the same time leased out my Canadian
    > condo for one year at a time as well. I don't recall being asked about how
    > long I was ultimately staying, though my answer would have been for a year
    > (to the expiry date of the visa) and any renewals were dependent on if my
    > employer wanted me for another year.
    >
    > Regarding your question about airport vs. POE processing, the only thing I
    > can offer is that you would get processed at Toronto or Montreal since they
    > both have US immigration/customs pre-clearance services on check-in. Once
    > you've gone through, you've technically entered the USA while still in a
    > Canadian airport and your flight to the US would be a "domestic" one without
    > need to arrive at an international terminal upon arrival in the US. I would
    > check first to see if TN approval is possible at an airport before leaving
    > though to make sure that there is a NAFTA officer on duty and what the hours
    > for this would be.
    >
    >
    > "Martin Thibodeau" wrote in message
    > news:BADEB0BC.9302%[email protected]...
    >> Hi, everyone. I fully appreciate the existence of this group. It's great.
    >>
    >> I am a Canadian citizen living on the East Coast and working as a graphic
    >> designer at a big university. I will be renewing in June for a second year
    >> with this employer. This will be my fifth TN visa app.
    >>
    >> I usually go to Niagara Falls/Peace Bridge (for the last three years)
    >> because the U.S. office has been professional and the people there are
    > very
    >> smart and helpful. On my last visit, however, I think I was processed by a
    >> junior officer and he started asking some pointed questions, which I
    >> expected, given 9/11, etc. But he made an interesting remark -- this was
    > my
    >> 4th TN, how long was this going to continue... he asked. Is there a limit?
    >>
    >> Since then, I have been about the stability of a TN.... What does anyone
    >> suggest -- should I be worried? Is there an "unspoken" limit? Will being
    >> with the same employer help or hurt my case? Should I at least have met
    > with
    >> an immigration lawyer prior to leaving this June?
    >>
    >> Secondly, the airport where I live has a brand new international terminal,
    >> with new BCIS staff, etc (I am assuming not all are new). While the trip
    > to
    >> Niagara can be done in a (long) day, I have been thinking about getting
    >> renewed through an airport POE (like Toronto or Montreal). Are airports
    >> better or worse as a POE for a TN? Does the processing happen in (Toronto
    > or
    >> Montreal) or would it occur when I return to my local airport (with what I
    >> suspect is a young staff who may or may not know the vicissitudes of TN)?
    >> Should I stick to my routine and do Niagara (or is it now more harsh than
    > in
    >> the past)?
    >>
    >> Thanks in advance for any response or anecdotal info. Martin
    >>
    >
    >

S B

Martin Thibodeau wrote:
    >
    > Thanks to Eric and Stuart for replying.
    >
    > Eric, I note in the instructions and forms for the I-129 that renewal
    > categories include: E, H, L, O, P, Q and R. There is no TN. Now, normally
    > you would think that would not be a problem, but my employer takes things
    > like this VERY literally (as in, if TN is not on the form, we will not
    > submit it for a TN, etc.). Eric, how did you work around that one?
    >
    > As for processing centers, the I-129 lists the Eastern Service center for my
    > contact office, rather than Nebraska. Stuart, is there a reason to go to one
    > over the other?
    >
    > As for airports, the Toronto Int'l does have a TN specialist on staff, which
    > I found out yesterday. I'm starting to think that I should do the airport
    > thing, since I probably should have done the I-129 months ago....
    >
    > Martin

From ...

http://www.bcis.gov/graphics/howdoi/extendstay.htm

For the following categories of nonimmigrants, your employer should
carefully read and file a BCIS Form I-129 (Petition for Nonimmigrant
Worker) and any supporting documentation:

E - International Traders and Investors
H - Temporary Workers
L - Intracompany Transferees
O - Aliens of Extraordinary Ability
P - Entertainers and Athletes
Q - Participants in International Exchange
Programs
R - Religious Workers
TN - Canadians and Mexicans Under NAFTA


and from http://www.bcis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/i-129.htm (which is
the latest instructions) ...

In most cases, file this form with the Service Center
responsible for the state in which the employment or
training will be performed.

Exceptions for NAFTA Countries (Mexico and Canada)

If you are filing for a national from Mexico for
initial classification as a TN (Trade NAFTA),
file your application with the Nebraska
Service Center.

If you are filing for a national from Canada,
and applying for initial classification as a TN
(Trade NAFTA), you will not need to
complete Form I-129. See 8 CFR 214.6 for
information on applying at a U.S. port of
entry.

***>>> If you are applying for a national from Mexico
or Canada, who is already in the U.S., and
applying for a change of status to TN, or
extension of stay as a TN, file at the
Nebraska Service Center.

This only needs to be AT the service centre by the date of expiry ... so
if you've got a week or two, you're just fine. You can send by express
mail if you want ... just get that "Return Receipt" ...

The problem with attempting an entry at an AIRPORT preflight inspection
are manyfold ...

1. You've got a deadline for when your flight leaves, and even if you
have allowed lots of time, you'll still be nervous, and those nerves
show.

2. Airports have historically been more agressive than other ports for
scrutinizing TNs

3. You're not in the US when you apply ... it's no skin off anyone's
nose to keep you on the ground in Canada except yours.

4. An airport is notoriously busy in spurts, therefore the staff tend
to feel under greater pressure and therefore make decisions that reflect
that pressure. I hate getting TNs at airports!

5. If you're refused, you are on the wrong side of the border from your
stuff and have a ticket you cannot use.

You should be able to whip your I-129 together in 24 hours and get it
out by Tomorrow evening, to arrive at Nebraska on Monday if you're sharp
about it. Then as I said, you've got 240 days after the expiry.

Also ... see this about "original documents" and note that the I-94 is
NOT on the list ... therefore it's OK to send a photocopy of front and
back.

http://www.bcis.gov/graphics/howdoi/hdiorig.htm

Does this help?

Stuart

Eric Matto

    > Eric, I note in the instructions and forms for the I-129 that renewal
    > categories include: E, H, L, O, P, Q and R. There is no TN. Now, normally
    > you would think that would not be a problem, but my employer takes things
    > like this VERY literally (as in, if TN is not on the form, we will not
    > submit it for a TN, etc.). Eric, how did you work around that one?
I never had anything to do with this paperwork, and in fact I wouldn't have
known what was the number of the form that was used. My company and its
lawyers handled this. I just sent them my supporting documentation every
year, and a few months later the visa would show up in the company's mail.