Please Helpppp!!!!
Sep 15th 2004, 10:04 pm
#31
I'm back!
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Posts: 4,316
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by Andrew DeFaria
USA & Pakistan wrote:
> I agree. He should have gotten all of the information about what he
> was getting into before he married her and she got pregnant. If he
> wasn't willing to make sacrifices like this, then what the heck was he
> doing with her in the first place?! Maybe they thought that getting
> married and having a baby would somehow waive all of the immigration
> laws that apply to everyone else. It is a very sad situation, but
> mostly because it was all preventable.
They probably had that perception because they watched that new show
LAX! ;-)
(See other thread regarding the LAX show...)
--
I used up all my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
> I agree. He should have gotten all of the information about what he
> was getting into before he married her and she got pregnant. If he
> wasn't willing to make sacrifices like this, then what the heck was he
> doing with her in the first place?! Maybe they thought that getting
> married and having a baby would somehow waive all of the immigration
> laws that apply to everyone else. It is a very sad situation, but
> mostly because it was all preventable.
They probably had that perception because they watched that new show
LAX! ;-)
(See other thread regarding the LAX show...)
--
I used up all my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
EXACTLY!! heehee...
~ Jenney
Sep 15th 2004, 10:59 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
sunflwrgrl13 wrote:
> Andy, the keywords in your last sentence is "in the US". If Indo is
> really as 'old-fashioned' as some of the other posters have stated,
> who knows what kind of problems they or the child could face, if they
> register him/her as illegitimate. For all we know, being a 'bastard'
> could be a very bad thing in Indo.
Yes I know. Think of it as inviting a discussion about what illegitimacy
means in Indonesia. I have no idea as I've never been there and don't
really study their culture. However, if the stigma is largely in terms
of "people look at you funny" or "people consider it bad" then big deal.
An attitude of "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us"
will essentially wipe that out. If, however, it's more discriminatory in
nature ("Gee I'd love to give you that loan but we don't do business
with illegitimate people") then I agree that would be much more of a
problem. Are they really that non-forward thinking?
> Considering the OP's situation & the Indonesian laws, then I'd have to
> agree with another poster - their best bet might be to find a 3rd
> country that one or both of them could immigrate to. There's always
> the UK, Canada, Australia and several other European countries that
> they could go to, if one or both of them have a decent skill and work
> experience. Heck, I know if I gain one more year's worth of experience
> in my profession, I could immgrate to the UK based on my experience
> and skills - wouldn't need my hubby's UK citizenship at all. ;)
A 3rd country is indeed another very good option. I think, however, that
immigrating again to a "desirable" country such as the ones you mention
would all be met with much more difficulties than the less desirable
countries...
> I wonder why the OP hasn't replied back with answers to some of our
> questions, though...
I think it's probably one of the two things I mentioned before...
--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
> Andy, the keywords in your last sentence is "in the US". If Indo is
> really as 'old-fashioned' as some of the other posters have stated,
> who knows what kind of problems they or the child could face, if they
> register him/her as illegitimate. For all we know, being a 'bastard'
> could be a very bad thing in Indo.
Yes I know. Think of it as inviting a discussion about what illegitimacy
means in Indonesia. I have no idea as I've never been there and don't
really study their culture. However, if the stigma is largely in terms
of "people look at you funny" or "people consider it bad" then big deal.
An attitude of "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us"
will essentially wipe that out. If, however, it's more discriminatory in
nature ("Gee I'd love to give you that loan but we don't do business
with illegitimate people") then I agree that would be much more of a
problem. Are they really that non-forward thinking?
> Considering the OP's situation & the Indonesian laws, then I'd have to
> agree with another poster - their best bet might be to find a 3rd
> country that one or both of them could immigrate to. There's always
> the UK, Canada, Australia and several other European countries that
> they could go to, if one or both of them have a decent skill and work
> experience. Heck, I know if I gain one more year's worth of experience
> in my profession, I could immgrate to the UK based on my experience
> and skills - wouldn't need my hubby's UK citizenship at all. ;)
A 3rd country is indeed another very good option. I think, however, that
immigrating again to a "desirable" country such as the ones you mention
would all be met with much more difficulties than the less desirable
countries...
> I wonder why the OP hasn't replied back with answers to some of our
> questions, though...
I think it's probably one of the two things I mentioned before...
--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Sep 15th 2004, 11:00 pm
#33
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by USA & Pakistan
He should have gotten all of the information about what he was getting into before he married her and she got pregnant.
Ian
Sep 15th 2004, 11:57 pm
#34
MODERATOR
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 58,679
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by Andrew DeFaria
sunflwrgrl13 wrote:
> Andy, the keywords in your last sentence is "in the US". If Indo is
> really as 'old-fashioned' as some of the other posters have stated,
> who knows what kind of problems they or the child could face, if they
> register him/her as illegitimate. For all we know, being a 'bastard'
> could be a very bad thing in Indo.
Yes I know. Think of it as inviting a discussion about what illegitimacy
means in Indonesia. I have no idea as I've never been there and don't
really study their culture. However, if the stigma is largely in terms
of "people look at you funny" or "people consider it bad" then big deal.
An attitude of "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us"
will essentially wipe that out. If, however, it's more discriminatory in
nature ("Gee I'd love to give you that loan but we don't do business
with illegitimate people") then I agree that would be much more of a
problem. Are they really that non-forward thinking?
> Andy, the keywords in your last sentence is "in the US". If Indo is
> really as 'old-fashioned' as some of the other posters have stated,
> who knows what kind of problems they or the child could face, if they
> register him/her as illegitimate. For all we know, being a 'bastard'
> could be a very bad thing in Indo.
Yes I know. Think of it as inviting a discussion about what illegitimacy
means in Indonesia. I have no idea as I've never been there and don't
really study their culture. However, if the stigma is largely in terms
of "people look at you funny" or "people consider it bad" then big deal.
An attitude of "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us"
will essentially wipe that out. If, however, it's more discriminatory in
nature ("Gee I'd love to give you that loan but we don't do business
with illegitimate people") then I agree that would be much more of a
problem. Are they really that non-forward thinking?
That said, I hope the OP figures out something to do in the best interest of the family unit.
Rene
Sep 16th 2004, 12:58 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Noorah101 wrote:
> Just had to jump in here and say that first of all, I also don't know
> about Indonesia's culture at all. However, I can say that there are
> some countries (Iran, for example), where even if it's only a matter
> of "people look at you funny", it's also a matter of the idea that "I
> don't care what you think" does not fly there at all.
It can't not fly there because it is an idea that is contained in
oneself - not in other people.
> The loan officer would never come right out and say the reason for not
> giving a loan is because of their illegitimate child, but if he had
> knowledge of that fact, he could certainly form an opinion and give
> them a really hard time, if not outright denial.
Then it is not simply a matter of only "people look at you funny" rather
it's an example of "people treat you differently and deny you service",
which is a different matter. Again, if all they are doing is "looking at
you funny" then it doesn't matter. The situation you describe above is
more than just looking at you funny.
> The "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us" is a
> western idea....
Nonsense - it's an idea. It has no geographical boundaries. And it will
work anywhere - except places where they are doing more than just
looking at you funny.
> some eastern countries (and people) simply cannot adopt (or adapt to)
> that attitude.
Sure they can! They choose not to. There's a difference there.
--
I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree fell right in front
of me -- and I didn't hear it.
> Just had to jump in here and say that first of all, I also don't know
> about Indonesia's culture at all. However, I can say that there are
> some countries (Iran, for example), where even if it's only a matter
> of "people look at you funny", it's also a matter of the idea that "I
> don't care what you think" does not fly there at all.
It can't not fly there because it is an idea that is contained in
oneself - not in other people.
> The loan officer would never come right out and say the reason for not
> giving a loan is because of their illegitimate child, but if he had
> knowledge of that fact, he could certainly form an opinion and give
> them a really hard time, if not outright denial.
Then it is not simply a matter of only "people look at you funny" rather
it's an example of "people treat you differently and deny you service",
which is a different matter. Again, if all they are doing is "looking at
you funny" then it doesn't matter. The situation you describe above is
more than just looking at you funny.
> The "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us" is a
> western idea....
Nonsense - it's an idea. It has no geographical boundaries. And it will
work anywhere - except places where they are doing more than just
looking at you funny.
> some eastern countries (and people) simply cannot adopt (or adapt to)
> that attitude.
Sure they can! They choose not to. There's a difference there.
--
I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree fell right in front
of me -- and I didn't hear it.
Sep 16th 2004, 2:20 am
#36
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2003
Location: US and Indonesia
Posts: 89
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by Andrew DeFaria
Noorah101 wrote:
> Just had to jump in here and say that first of all, I also don't know
> about Indonesia's culture at all. However, I can say that there are
> some countries (Iran, for example), where even if it's only a matter
> of "people look at you funny", it's also a matter of the idea that "I
> don't care what you think" does not fly there at all.
It can't not fly there because it is an idea that is contained in
oneself - not in other people.
> The loan officer would never come right out and say the reason for not
> giving a loan is because of their illegitimate child, but if he had
> knowledge of that fact, he could certainly form an opinion and give
> them a really hard time, if not outright denial.
Then it is not simply a matter of only "people look at you funny" rather
it's an example of "people treat you differently and deny you service",
which is a different matter. Again, if all they are doing is "looking at
you funny" then it doesn't matter. The situation you describe above is
more than just looking at you funny.
> The "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us" is a
> western idea....
Nonsense - it's an idea. It has no geographical boundaries. And it will
work anywhere - except places where they are doing more than just
looking at you funny.
> some eastern countries (and people) simply cannot adopt (or adapt to)
> that attitude.
Sure they can! They choose not to. There's a difference there.
--
I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree fell right in front
of me -- and I didn't hear it.
> Just had to jump in here and say that first of all, I also don't know
> about Indonesia's culture at all. However, I can say that there are
> some countries (Iran, for example), where even if it's only a matter
> of "people look at you funny", it's also a matter of the idea that "I
> don't care what you think" does not fly there at all.
It can't not fly there because it is an idea that is contained in
oneself - not in other people.
> The loan officer would never come right out and say the reason for not
> giving a loan is because of their illegitimate child, but if he had
> knowledge of that fact, he could certainly form an opinion and give
> them a really hard time, if not outright denial.
Then it is not simply a matter of only "people look at you funny" rather
it's an example of "people treat you differently and deny you service",
which is a different matter. Again, if all they are doing is "looking at
you funny" then it doesn't matter. The situation you describe above is
more than just looking at you funny.
> The "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us" is a
> western idea....
Nonsense - it's an idea. It has no geographical boundaries. And it will
work anywhere - except places where they are doing more than just
looking at you funny.
> some eastern countries (and people) simply cannot adopt (or adapt to)
> that attitude.
Sure they can! They choose not to. There's a difference there.
--
I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree fell right in front
of me -- and I didn't hear it.
Sep 16th 2004, 3:16 am
#37
MODERATOR
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 58,679
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by theangells
Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
Rene
Sep 16th 2004, 3:28 am
#38
MODERATOR
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 58,679
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by Andrew DeFaria
Noorah101 wrote:
> some eastern countries (and people) simply cannot adopt (or adapt to)
> that attitude.
Sure they can! They choose not to. There's a difference there.
--
I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree fell right in front
of me -- and I didn't hear it.
> some eastern countries (and people) simply cannot adopt (or adapt to)
> that attitude.
Sure they can! They choose not to. There's a difference there.
--
I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree fell right in front
of me -- and I didn't hear it.
Rene
Sep 16th 2004, 3:51 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
theangells wrote:
> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what I'm
talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can know
and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think! I can
choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you cannot know
whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the other hand,
cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the statement above.
--
Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what I'm
talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can know
and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think! I can
choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you cannot know
whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the other hand,
cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the statement above.
--
Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
Sep 16th 2004, 3:59 am
#40
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
I am wondering has the original poster any good job skills? If he has, maybe he could move to a 3rd country of choice where both he and his wife could start a fresh life.
>>>>> I dont have a good job skill
and neither my wife.
Personally I think I would find it tough to live in a country as described by some of the posters here (like I didn't know Indonesia was a Muslem country).
If they really love each other and the girl is not just looking for a life in the US then another country of residence would be my place to start looking.
Patrick
>>>>>>I can't do that part them apart(my wife and my son)
im really confused... this is a very sad situation....
>>>>> I dont have a good job skill
and neither my wife.Personally I think I would find it tough to live in a country as described by some of the posters here (like I didn't know Indonesia was a Muslem country).
If they really love each other and the girl is not just looking for a life in the US then another country of residence would be my place to start looking.
Patrick
Originally Posted by USA & Pakistan
I agree. He should have gotten all of the information about what he was getting into before he married her and she got pregnant. If he wasn't willing to make sacrifices like this, then what the heck was he doing with her in the first place?! Maybe they thought that getting married and having a baby would somehow waive all of the immigration laws that apply to everyone else. It is a very sad situation, but mostly because it was all preventable.
-Marnee
-Marnee
im really confused... this is a very sad situation....
Last edited by anasmark; Sep 16th 2004 at 4:01 am.
Sep 16th 2004, 4:55 am
#41
Don't Know, Don't Care
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,385
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by Andrew DeFaria
theangells wrote:
> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what I'm
talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can know
and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think! I can
choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you cannot know
whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the other hand,
cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the statement above.
--
Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what I'm
talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can know
and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think! I can
choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you cannot know
whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the other hand,
cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the statement above.
--
Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
Patrick
Sep 16th 2004, 10:49 pm
#42
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by anasmark
this is a very sad situation....
Get off your ass and find an immigration lawyer! Do it... and do it now!
Ian
Sep 17th 2004, 12:24 am
#43
The Missus
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Northwest of Chicago
Posts: 6,239
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by Andrew DeFaria
theangells wrote:
> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what I'm
talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can know
and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think! I can
choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you cannot know
whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the other hand,
cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the statement above.
--
Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what I'm
talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can know
and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think! I can
choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you cannot know
whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the other hand,
cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the statement above.
--
Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
~SG
Sep 17th 2004, 12:49 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
SecretGarden wrote:
>> theangells wrote:
>>> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
>> And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what
>> I'm talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can
>> know and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think!
>> I can choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you
>> cannot know whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the
>> other hand, cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the
>> statement above.
> Geezus Andy.......ever tried decaf? :D
Sure. Why? (Actually I don't drink that much coffee).You mean when
somebody effectively attacks me I should just lie there and take it? I
don't think so.
--
Don't look back, they might be gaining on you.
>> theangells wrote:
>>> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
>> And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what
>> I'm talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can
>> know and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think!
>> I can choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you
>> cannot know whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the
>> other hand, cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the
>> statement above.
> Geezus Andy.......ever tried decaf? :D
Sure. Why? (Actually I don't drink that much coffee).You mean when
somebody effectively attacks me I should just lie there and take it? I
don't think so.
--
Don't look back, they might be gaining on you.
Sep 17th 2004, 1:44 am
#45
The Missus
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Northwest of Chicago
Posts: 6,239
Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
Originally Posted by Andrew DeFaria
SecretGarden wrote:
>> theangells wrote:
>>> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
>> And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what
>> I'm talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can
>> know and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think!
>> I can choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you
>> cannot know whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the
>> other hand, cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the
>> statement above.
> Geezus Andy.......ever tried decaf?
Sure. Why? (Actually I don't drink that much coffee).You mean when
somebody effectively attacks me I should just lie there and take it? I
don't think so.
--
Don't look back, they might be gaining on you.
>> theangells wrote:
>>> Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.
>> And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what
>> I'm talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can
>> know and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think!
>> I can choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you
>> cannot know whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the
>> other hand, cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the
>> statement above.
> Geezus Andy.......ever tried decaf?
Sure. Why? (Actually I don't drink that much coffee).You mean when
somebody effectively attacks me I should just lie there and take it? I
don't think so.
--
Don't look back, they might be gaining on you.
Ok, first off, as you said, you *CHOOSE* to react one way or another to what someone says as in your statement above, "I can choose to be bothered by it or ignore it." Apparently you *chose* to feel "attacked" and I was simply pointing out that perhaps your body might be on "high alert" due to too much caffeine or something, and so your "choices" are a bit "edgier". That's all.
Actually the coffee questions was more a rhetorical one that literal. Have a good sleep!
~SG