Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Im a USC got married with a girl from indonesia. She came here on K1 visa but she didnt not marry the person who gave her petition. she just had a baby on april 04(my baby)
Informations that i got so far that she have to go back to her country. and apply for K3. How long it takes to process K3?? is theres away for her to be legal without going back??
Im lost and dont know what to do???? :(
Anyone who know about this please helpppp
i appreciate it thanks
mark

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

If you enter the US on a K-1 and do not marry the person who petitioned for you, there is no other way to adjust status or change visas while in the US. You have to leave. The problem is not only that she will have to leave the US to do the K-3 which will take up to a year but that she has overstayed her K-1 90 days by at least 180 days. I draw this conclusion on the fact that she met you, married you and had a child. The pregnancy alone, if normal, was 9 months. Having said that, she will be banned for a minimum of 3 years and upwards depending on the length of the overstay after the 179th day. That means the K-3 will be denied and she will need to file for a waiver.

Please do yourself, your wife and your child one very big favor, retain an immigration attorney to help you with this situation. It is not one that should be handled on the advice from laypeople on a newsgroup.

Rete

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

It's a little difficult answering your questions since you're leaving out the exact time lines but I'm giving you a guess...

My guess is that your wife came to the US on a K1-Visa over 90 days ago?!

If a K1-Visa holder doesn't marry the original petitioner within 90 days after entering the US on her K1-Visa, the applicant has to leave the US and is 'out of status' if she doesn't do so. My guess is that your wife is currently considered an illegal alien by the USCIS since she probably overstayed those 90 days and didn't marry the original petitioner.

I think she has to file for a waiver of foreign residency requirement. Someone else may be able to confirm this though. (by I-601 or I-612?!)

Afterwards (or at the same time?!) you should be able and obliged to file a I-485 (including the necessary forms and documentation) for adjusting your wife's status so that she'll become a legal permanent resident based on your current marriage.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

May I ask, elga, where you found this information? The K-1 beneficiary is not eligible to change to any other visa status from within the US if they have not fulfilled the K-1 and married the person that sponsored them.

This means they cannot apply for an F-1, H-1B, J-1 or I-485 based on marriage to another US citizen while inside of the US.

Awaiting your reply so that if what we have learned on this forum is incorrect, the incorrect information can be rectified.

Rete

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

My thought was - and I well stated that hoping for someone else to shed light on the issue - whether or not the person may be able to file for a waiver or not on terms of hardship (i.e. seperation from her child). Continueing the thought, the idea was that if it were possible she should in the process be able to adjust her status based on her marriage.
I do 100% agree with your suggestion on contacting an immigration lawyer in cases like these. :)

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Get the to thine attorney. This is definitely not a do it yourselfer.
Personally, and I'm far from a legal expert on this, I think there could
easily be a case for immgration fraud made here. As elga said without exact
timelines there's not way to really advise which way to head other than
definitely go and get a legal-beagle to cover you ass on this one. The
length of time you're going to be seperate could be the least of your
problems.


--
--
Toby & Antoinette Woods
-----------------------------------
Our Homepage: http://www.woodsfamily.cjb.net
Immgration Timeline:
http://www.geocities.com/toby_antoin...migration.html
My Wife's & Mother's Online Gift Shop - http://www.eaglesdream.cjb.net

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Yes, she will be able to one day adjust status but it is not going to be easy and definitely not quick.

The one big mistake she made was in not leaving the US when she didn't marry the man who sponsored her for the K-1. Either she was using the K-1 as a means to enter the US only or she was really foolish in not learning all there is to know about the K-1. A waiver is not an easy thing to obtain and it is not quick either. I feel for the father having to be separated from his child while all this is pending.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Rete wrote:

    > If you enter the US on a K-1 and do not marry the person who
    > petitioned for you, there is no other way to adjust status or change
    > visas while in the US. You have to leave. The problem is not only that
    > she will have to leave the US to do the K-3 which will take up to a
    > year but that she has overstayed her K-1 90 days by at least 180 days.
    > I draw this
    > conclusion on the fact that she met you, married you and had a child.
    > The pregnancy alone, if normal, was 9 months. Having said that, she
    > will be banned for a minimum of 3 years and upwards depending on the
    > length of the overstay after the 179th day. That means the K-3 will be
    > denied and she will need to file for a waiver.
    > Please do yourself, your wife and your child one very big favor,
    > retain an immigration attorney to help you with this situation. It is
    > not one that should be handled on the advice from laypeople on a
    > newsgroup.

Why does everyone alway assume they have to be in the US! Do your child
a real favor and be a father, be with your child and move to Indonesia.

--
Smile, it's the second best thing you can do with your lips.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

You make a good point... to a point. Why do we assume, as in this case, that the husband will be allowed to live in Indonesia? I mean, doesn't Indonesia - or just about any other country - have its own immigration laws? Are the US laws so much stricter than those other countries? I'm really not trying to be a smart ass here (although I certainly will admit to being a smart ass many other times! :) ), but one of the stock answers when there's a problem of this sort is "why doesn't the USC just move to the other country?". I'm really just curious.

Ian

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

To my knowledge, all countries have immigration laws. Whether they are the same, stricter or more lax than US immigration laws, I have no idea. But here's my take on it:

The foreign wife has violated US immigration laws, which is what prevents her from living in the US. But the USC husband presumably has not violated the immigration laws of his wife's country; I doubt they've ever even considered going that route. So unless there's something major in his background -- like drug offenses, etc., -- they can apply for a spousal visa in HER country for HIM, and he can go live with her there.

In this particular case, I would be surprised if it took longer than 3 years (the length of her US ban) to get him to Indonesia on a spousal visa.

~ Jenney

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Good point, J&M, but this does make the assumption that her country will have the equivalent of a Spousal Visa. Can we make the assumption that every country in the world has such a visa? I've only researched US laws so I truly do not know.

Also, don't some countries expect the intending immigrant to have some good/special skills in order to migrate there? Or does this only matter if there is no spousal visa? If skills are required, this could be a handicap when trying to move to the foreign spouse's country.

It's easy to say that the USC should go to the foreign spouse's country, but in all fairness, that's a bit tough to do too, I think. Especially when it comes to the standard of living and medicine availability that most of us USC's are used to (us USC's are pretty spoiled I suppose). This is going to sound somewhat snobby, but when deciding to immigrate to a country, doesn't one want to take a step up rather than a step down? Doesn't one want to go to the "better" country? Not saying Indonesia is a bad country (since I know nothing about it), but there are many good reasons to want to remain here in the US - so I understand why they're trying to find a way for her to stay here. However, given the OP's situation it may indeed be easier & be a less painful separation to move to Indonesia - assuming he can do so.

This was not intended to be offensive to anyone, and I apologize if it was.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

ian-mstm wrote:

    > You make a good point... to a point. Why do we assume, as in this
    > case, that the husband will be allowed to live in Indonesia? I mean,
    > doesn't Indonesia - or just about any other country - have its own
    > immigration
    > laws?

You make a good point too. However I think it'd be a lot easier for him
to get into Indonesia than her into the US - especially given the
situation...

    > Are the US laws so much stricter than those other countries?

It is my understanding that yes, indeed, they are. Many more people are
dying, committing fraud, suffering in the sweltering desert heat in
trucks, claiming asylum, stowing away in boats and even cargo
containers, etc to get into the US than say The Congo! Not sure where
Indonesia fits on the scale of things but in general people want to live
where there is opportunity, freedom, wealth and the chance to make a
better live for themselves.

    > I'm really not trying to be a smart ass here (although I certainly
    > will admit to being a smart ass many other times! :) ), but one of the
    > stock answers when there's a problem of this sort is "why doesn't the
    > USC just
    > move to the other country?". I'm really just curious.

No, my point is that the one stock answer that is usually neglected or
not even considered is "why doesn't the USC just move to the other
country?". Look around, it's seldom suggested or thought of.

--
I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

I understand where you're coming from, but there are actually two different issues. One is what the couple WANTS to do, and the other is what the couple CAN do.

Using the OP's situation as an example: The OP and his wife want to adjust her status without her having to leave the US. However, since his wife violated her K1 visa, this option is not available to them. So, they can't get what they want.

Now, if their REAL objective is to live together as a family -- husband, wife and baby -- then they DO have options. One of those options is to see if he can emigrate to Indonesia. They could live together as a family there at least until her 3-year ban is up. Then they could try relocating to the US and adjusting her status.

Again, this is not their first choice, but because of his wife's previous actions, this is a way that they could at least stay together as a family. Where she comes from is a secondary issue. It may not be ideal, especially compared to living in the US, but at least they would be together.

The alternative would be to live separately and wait out her 3-year ban. One option in that scenario is for their baby to stay with him in the States instead of going with her back to Indonesia, again another option which many couples don't seem willing to explore.

~ Jenney

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

    > Why does everyone alway assume they have to be in the US!

I think it's fair to assume, since this is a forum about immigrating to the
US, that people who post here want information about that.

- Eric S.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Yes, but that doesn't explain why people think living in the US is their only option.

~ Jenney

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Eric S. wrote:

    >> Why does everyone alway assume they have to be in the US!
    > I think it's fair to assume, since this is a forum about immigrating
    > to the US, that people who post here want information about that.

Yes but when faced with the reality that she has broken the law and is
not eligible to remain, why is the option of moving to the other country
usually not mentioned.

--
All generalizations are false, including this one.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Actually, although not impossible, it isn't easy for a foreigner who marries an Indonesian woman to actually get a visa enabling him to live and work in Indonesia. (I'm assuming here that the Original Poster doesn't have dual nationality and not of Indonesian extraction himself). He will either need to find sponsor or have his wife or her family set up their own business and employ him (so he needs to have a 'skill' eg. a chef). Otherwise he could set up his own company. Indonesia is riddled with corruption from the highest echelons of the govt. so bribes are part of everyday life there in this Third World chaotic country. If her family are muslim, he may be expected to convert before being allowed to live with his wife in Indonesia (unless the usual bribe gets him out of that situation!)

Also, the baby's father is not Indonesian so the child will be unable to have an Indonesian passport (women are definitely a second class race in Indo, they can't pass their nationality to their children unless they register the birth as illegitimate!)....and the mother will have to apply each year for a residency visa for the child...as well as for her husband.

There is an amazing array of excellent information here regarding mixed marriages between expats and Indonesians:

http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarriages.html (Read through to the bottom of the page and also spot the link for a support group for US/Indo couples).

The main website is: http://www.expat.or.id

I do find it odd that the Indonesian wife was apparently engaged to someone else, arrived in the States, didn't marry the fiancee then meets another guy, has his baby then gets married to him. I wonder if the original guy backed out of the marriage and she was so desperate to stay in the US she became pregnant and married to a USC?

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

I can't help giving some "true-Indonesian" comments here...

Indonesia doesn't recognize dual nationality. You can only be Indonesian or foreigner. I can assume that the OP is NOT Indonesian.

Sad but true... To stay in Indonesia, he has to find a job (which is not very easy, there is high un-employment rate) which later will allow him to apply for temporary residency or set up his own company (which is even more difficult). Otherwise, he can only get a visitor visa goods for 1-2 months then he will have to leave,

I think he can still live with his wife in Indonesia at their own home without having to convert to any religions as long as he has the appropriate visa.

Indonesia is a bit "old-fashioned" in regards of family, they only consider the "father" as the head of family and that's why everything (including nationality of the children) depends on him. The child can become Indonesian if he/she abandons his/her US citizenship (make written statement, etc.)
Oh, and women are NOT a second class race at all in Indonesia, they just have "obsolete" laws there.

For the OP: Trying to move back and live together in Indonesia is as difficult as trying to get her legally in US. Consult to experienced immigration attorney ASAP ...

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Englishmum wrote:

    > Actually, although not impossible, it isn't easy for a foreigner who
    > marries an Indonesian woman to actually get a visa enabling him to
    > live and work in Indonesia. (I'm assuming here that the Original
    > Poster doesn't have dual nationality and not of Indonesian extraction
    > himself). He will either need to find sponsor or have his wife or her
    > family set up their own business and employ him (so he needs to have a
    > 'skill' eg. a chef). Otherwise he could set up his own company.
    > Indonesia is riddled with corruption from the highest echelons of the
    > govt. so bribes are part of everyday life there in this Third World
    > chaotic country. If her family are muslim, he may be expected to
    > convert before being allowed to live with his wife in Indonesia
    > (unless the usual bribe gets him out of that situation!)

My money'd still be on the "it'd be easier to immigrate there than here"
option especially considering the situation.

    > Also, the baby's father is not Indonesian so the child will be unable
    > to have an Indonesian passport (women are definitely a second class
    > race in Indo, they can't pass their nationality to their children
    > unless they register the birth as illegitimate!)....

Is there something bad about "registering their child as illegitimate?
I'm just curious...

    > and the mother will have to apply each year for a residency visa for
    > the child...as well as for her husband.

Hardly a hardship when you compare...

    > There is an amazing array of excellent information here regarding
    > mixed marriages between expats and Indonesians:
    > http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarriages.html (Read through to the
    > bottom of the page and also spot the link for a support group for
    > US/Indo couples).
    > The main website is: http://www.expat.or.id

That might be interesting info for the OP. I'm not interested in it though.

    > I do find it odd that the Indonesian wife was apparently engaged to
    > someone else, arrived in the States, didn't marry the fiancee then
    > meets another guy, has his baby then gets married to him. I wonder if
    > the original guy backed out of the marriage and she was so desperate
    > to stay in the US she became pregnant and married to a USC?

Yes I also wonder about that, and that would no doubt add to the
difficulty in remaining here. IOW this guy, if he's serious, will have a
very difficult, next to impossible time keeping her and her baby (and
let's not forget his baby too - unless he's leaving part of this story
untold) here in the US. Granted immigrating to Indonesia will not be a
piece of cake between the immigration difficulties you state and the
added difficulties, stresses and hardships of leaving the US, your
friends and family behind. However if I were to weight the two options I
would still say that immigrating there will probably be easier, even
though still hard, than staying here.

The OP is in an awful mess and his lack of interaction with this thread
tells me one of two things: 1) He's given up or is shocked with the
depth of doo doo he and his wife are in or 2) he's out searching on the
web for somebody to tell him it'll all be OK. I feel sorry for him
somewhat but then again 1) he got involved with a foreign woman without
thinking and 2) decided to produce a child with her as well as marry
her. Actually I feel the most for the child because it did not ask for
nor deserve the life that it has gotten so far!

Perhaps the best solution, as harsh as it sounds but really in the best
interests of the child, would be for him to get custody of his kid, ship
her back to Indonesia and then work on/wait for her to be able to come
back here. Somehow I don't think that that path will be chosen however...

--
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

To be honest, I have thought about leaving to live in my Fiance's country, but
I cannot live in a country that doesnt have a Taco Bell. Am I pathetic or
what? But it's true. Anyway, she is having her interview tomorrow!!! (Im
kidding kinda about Taco Bell. I love her and would go to be with her and
teach her how to make burritos and things.)

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Aside from the possible (even probable) stigma that might create unnecessarily, is it possible that registering their child as illegitimate could cause problems in registering the child as a US citizen born abroad? I would think it's a bit trickier if the parents aren't married.

Plus, we don't know when this couple married -- it's possible they married before the child was born, in which case it wouldn't be illegitimate anyway.

~ Jenney

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

He should check back after he's seen the immigration attorney. If a long seperation -years- is required then, he should go with her to Indonesia. It would be a great opportunity to learn his spouse's language and customs and I'm sure her family would be delighted.

Of course the major issue is if he will be able to find work- if his profession is compatible for a career over there. Also, Indonesia is rife with anti-american terrorist groups there and he may find that the security risk is too high. However, one of their many official languages is English.

Here is a fact sheet on Indonesia, if interested:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/id.html
and of course, try finding their consulate website and see what the immigration laws are.

Renée

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

MelodicBlue40 wrote:

    > To be honest, I have thought about leaving to live in my Fiance's
    > country, but I cannot live in a country that doesnt have a Taco Bell.

You could always be the person who starts the first Taco Bell franchise
in that country! :-)

--
Nebraska: At least the cows are sane.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Jenney & Mark wrote:

    > Aside from the possible (even probable) stigma that might create
    > unnecessarily,

Given the enormity of the problems thus far, stigma would be very far
from my mind as a problem at all.

    > is it possible that registering their child as illegitimate could
    > cause problems in registering the child as a US citizen born abroad? I
    > would think it's a bit trickier if the parents aren't married.

If you're gonna live in Indonesia then why would you care or attempt to
register the child as a US citizen born abroad?!? Besides it's my
understanding that the kid was already born over here thus it is not a
US citizen born abroad rather it is just a USC.

    > Plus, we don't know when this couple married -- it's possible they
    > married before the child was born, in which case it wouldn't be
    > illegitimate anyway.

To me illegitimate is just a label or name that one uses that has little
to no real significance anymore. You talk about stigma - in order to
have a stigma others need to think negatively about it and the people
have to actually care about what others think. In the US this is largely
not a problem anymore.

--
My friend has a baby. I'm writing down all the noises he makes so later
I can ask him what he meant.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

And they do like spicy food in Indonesia!

They do have MacDonalds in Indonesia (have even been to the one in Kuta, Bali).....but you could just take a ferry or fly in to Singapore as they definitely have Taco Bell there! :)


PS> Jenney...even if the parents weren't married when they have a child, if they later get married then that child is no longer illegitimate.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

I am wondering has the original poster any good job skills? If he has, maybe he could move to a 3rd country of choice where both he and his wife could start a fresh life.
Personally I think I would find it tough to live in a country as described by some of the posters here (like I didn't know Indonesia was a Muslem country).

If they really love each other and the girl is not just looking for a life in the US then another country of residence would be my place to start looking.

Patrick

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

In terms of population, more Muslims live in Indonesia than anywhere else in the world!

The problem is, factions of Al Queda are springing up; you probably heard about the Bali bombings at Kuta which killed and maimed many (mainly Western) young tourists, mainly Australians but also some British people.

Last week there was a huge bomb outside the Australian Embassy in the capital city Jakarta....over 100 people, mostly locals were killed.

However, many Western expats and their families still live and work in Indonesia - especially in the oil and banking industries.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

I agree. He should have gotten all of the information about what he was getting into before he married her and she got pregnant. If he wasn't willing to make sacrifices like this, then what the heck was he doing with her in the first place?! Maybe they thought that getting married and having a baby would somehow waive all of the immigration laws that apply to everyone else. It is a very sad situation, but mostly because it was all preventable.

-Marnee

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

USA & Pakistan wrote:

    > I agree. He should have gotten all of the information about what he
    > was getting into before he married her and she got pregnant. If he
    > wasn't willing to make sacrifices like this, then what the heck was he
    > doing with her in the first place?! Maybe they thought that getting
    > married and having a baby would somehow waive all of the immigration
    > laws that apply to everyone else. It is a very sad situation, but
    > mostly because it was all preventable.

They probably had that perception because they watched that new show
LAX! ;-)

(See other thread regarding the LAX show...)
--
I used up all my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Andy, the keywords in your last sentence is "in the US". If Indo is really as 'old-fashioned' as some of the other posters have stated, who knows what kind of problems they or the child could face, if they register him/her as illegitimate. For all we know, being a 'bastard' could be a very bad thing in Indo.

Considering the OP's situation & the Indonesian laws, then I'd have to agree with another poster - their best bet might be to find a 3rd country that one or both of them could immigrate to. There's always the UK, Canada, Australia and several other European countries that they could go to, if one or both of them have a decent skill and work experience. Heck, I know if I gain one more year's worth of experience in my profession, I could immgrate to the UK based on my experience and skills - wouldn't need my hubby's UK citizenship at all. ;)

I wonder why the OP hasn't replied back with answers to some of our questions, though...

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

EXACTLY!! heehee... ;)

~ Jenney

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

sunflwrgrl13 wrote:

    > Andy, the keywords in your last sentence is "in the US". If Indo is
    > really as 'old-fashioned' as some of the other posters have stated,
    > who knows what kind of problems they or the child could face, if they
    > register him/her as illegitimate. For all we know, being a 'bastard'
    > could be a very bad thing in Indo.

Yes I know. Think of it as inviting a discussion about what illegitimacy
means in Indonesia. I have no idea as I've never been there and don't
really study their culture. However, if the stigma is largely in terms
of "people look at you funny" or "people consider it bad" then big deal.
An attitude of "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us"
will essentially wipe that out. If, however, it's more discriminatory in
nature ("Gee I'd love to give you that loan but we don't do business
with illegitimate people") then I agree that would be much more of a
problem. Are they really that non-forward thinking?

    > Considering the OP's situation & the Indonesian laws, then I'd have to
    > agree with another poster - their best bet might be to find a 3rd
    > country that one or both of them could immigrate to. There's always
    > the UK, Canada, Australia and several other European countries that
    > they could go to, if one or both of them have a decent skill and work
    > experience. Heck, I know if I gain one more year's worth of experience
    > in my profession, I could immgrate to the UK based on my experience
    > and skills - wouldn't need my hubby's UK citizenship at all. ;)

A 3rd country is indeed another very good option. I think, however, that
immigrating again to a "desirable" country such as the ones you mention
would all be met with much more difficulties than the less desirable
countries...

    > I wonder why the OP hasn't replied back with answers to some of our
    > questions, though...

I think it's probably one of the two things I mentioned before...

--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Good point. Sadly, people take greater care choosing a car than in finding a spouse! Too many overactive hormones, I guess.

Ian

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Just had to jump in here and say that first of all, I also don't know about Indonesia's culture at all. However, I can say that there are some countries (Iran, for example), where even if it's only a matter of "people look at you funny", it's also a matter of the idea that "I don't care what you think" does not fly there at all. The loan officer would never come right out and say the reason for not giving a loan is because of their illegitimate child, but if he had knowledge of that fact, he could certainly form an opinion and give them a really hard time, if not outright denial. The "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us" is a western idea....some eastern countries (and people) simply cannot adopt (or adapt to) that attitude.

That said, I hope the OP figures out something to do in the best interest of the family unit.

Rene

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Noorah101 wrote:

    > Just had to jump in here and say that first of all, I also don't know
    > about Indonesia's culture at all. However, I can say that there are
    > some countries (Iran, for example), where even if it's only a matter
    > of "people look at you funny", it's also a matter of the idea that "I
    > don't care what you think" does not fly there at all.

It can't not fly there because it is an idea that is contained in
oneself - not in other people.

    > The loan officer would never come right out and say the reason for not
    > giving a loan is because of their illegitimate child, but if he had
    > knowledge of that fact, he could certainly form an opinion and give
    > them a really hard time, if not outright denial.

Then it is not simply a matter of only "people look at you funny" rather
it's an example of "people treat you differently and deny you service",
which is a different matter. Again, if all they are doing is "looking at
you funny" then it doesn't matter. The situation you describe above is
more than just looking at you funny.

    > The "I don't care what you think - it's not a problem for us" is a
    > western idea....

Nonsense - it's an idea. It has no geographical boundaries. And it will
work anywhere - except places where they are doing more than just
looking at you funny.

    > some eastern countries (and people) simply cannot adopt (or adapt to)
    > that attitude.

Sure they can! They choose not to. There's a difference there.
--
I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree fell right in front
of me -- and I didn't hear it.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Which one of us? Me, or Andrew? :)

Rene

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

Sorry, you are right...they CAN. But, usually, they want to fit in society, not be outcast from it. I guess it depends on whether you want to go with the flow and be part of society, or be a black sheep and be lonely and "looked at funny". But you're right, it's their own choice. I was just stating which one I found to be more common and acceptable within that society.

Rene

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

theangells wrote:

    > Sorry, but I think you just DON'T know what you are talking about.

And what would you base that statement upon? 'Cause I do know what I'm
talking about. I know it intrinsically and I live it. Only I can know
and control whether or not I will be effected by what you think! I can
choose to be bothered by it or I can ignore it. As such you cannot know
whether or not such a thing would bother me. You, on the other hand,
cannot know this and thus you have no basis for the statement above.

--
Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.

Re: Please Helpppp!!!!
 

I am wondering has the original poster any good job skills? If he has, maybe he could move to a 3rd country of choice where both he and his wife could start a fresh life.

>>>>> I dont have a good job skill :( and neither my wife.

Personally I think I would find it tough to live in a country as described by some of the posters here (like I didn't know Indonesia was a Muslem country).

If they really love each other and the girl is not just looking for a life in the US then another country of residence would be my place to start looking.

Patrick

>>>>>>I can't do that part them apart(my wife and my son) :(
im really confused... this is a very sad situation....