Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Apr 23rd 2006, 3:51 pm
#1
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Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Okay, now I know that this is the law, but who can help the sponsor if
they go broke because a permanent resident they are sponsoring hasn't
worked in 4 years and refuses to work.
Here are the premises of this example....
1) PR leaves sponsor after sponsor takes her to a nice dinner and a
shopping spree the night before.
2) PR says she is going to visit a friend, emails him 3 days later
saying that she left him for another guy she met online (after a 5 year
marriage) and that her car was in the airport terminal.
3) Demands payments and threatens sponsor. PR and boyfriend are living
off of sponsors money and laughing all the way to the bank.
4) sponsor lost 14 year job because of PR's mental breakdowns, went to
hospitals to get her on meds, PR had hysterectomy at 28 or so. Then
she stopped meds and had thoughts of blood surrounding her when she
closed her eyes.
5) sponsor now has no money, 2 years later, PR still hasn't sought out
work, refuses to, says she is too sick.
6) lied and said that she would go back to the UK, gave her $ and she
went on a vacation and then came back.
7) applied for naturalization sometime this year, when she found out
that sponsor has no more money. This is a long process and we haven't
even seen the checks get cashed and it's been 2 months since she
applied. Did she apply? Or made us think that she applied?
8) PR went to apply for Means tested public benefits and was denied
because sponsor didn't have a job.
9) Now PR is demanding back payments, we are paying her, but
begrudgingly.
How can you prove that someone married for money and not for love? She
has been in this country since '98 and a PR since 99, so she has
status. She never plans on working, she doesn't want to be a US
citizen and she won't go back to her country. What can we do? Will we
have to pay her 125% of the poverty level for the rest of our natural
lives?
they go broke because a permanent resident they are sponsoring hasn't
worked in 4 years and refuses to work.
Here are the premises of this example....
1) PR leaves sponsor after sponsor takes her to a nice dinner and a
shopping spree the night before.
2) PR says she is going to visit a friend, emails him 3 days later
saying that she left him for another guy she met online (after a 5 year
marriage) and that her car was in the airport terminal.
3) Demands payments and threatens sponsor. PR and boyfriend are living
off of sponsors money and laughing all the way to the bank.
4) sponsor lost 14 year job because of PR's mental breakdowns, went to
hospitals to get her on meds, PR had hysterectomy at 28 or so. Then
she stopped meds and had thoughts of blood surrounding her when she
closed her eyes.
5) sponsor now has no money, 2 years later, PR still hasn't sought out
work, refuses to, says she is too sick.
6) lied and said that she would go back to the UK, gave her $ and she
went on a vacation and then came back.
7) applied for naturalization sometime this year, when she found out
that sponsor has no more money. This is a long process and we haven't
even seen the checks get cashed and it's been 2 months since she
applied. Did she apply? Or made us think that she applied?
8) PR went to apply for Means tested public benefits and was denied
because sponsor didn't have a job.
9) Now PR is demanding back payments, we are paying her, but
begrudgingly.
How can you prove that someone married for money and not for love? She
has been in this country since '98 and a PR since 99, so she has
status. She never plans on working, she doesn't want to be a US
citizen and she won't go back to her country. What can we do? Will we
have to pay her 125% of the poverty level for the rest of our natural
lives?
Apr 23rd 2006, 4:23 pm
#2
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Originally Posted by wendysmf
Okay, now I know that this is the law, but who can help the sponsor if
they go broke because a permanent resident they are sponsoring hasn't
worked in 4 years and refuses to work.
Here are the premises of this example....
1) PR leaves sponsor after sponsor takes her to a nice dinner and a
shopping spree the night before.
2) PR says she is going to visit a friend, emails him 3 days later
saying that she left him for another guy she met online (after a 5 year
marriage) and that her car was in the airport terminal.
3) Demands payments and threatens sponsor. PR and boyfriend are living
off of sponsors money and laughing all the way to the bank.
4) sponsor lost 14 year job because of PR's mental breakdowns, went to
hospitals to get her on meds, PR had hysterectomy at 28 or so. Then
she stopped meds and had thoughts of blood surrounding her when she
closed her eyes.
5) sponsor now has no money, 2 years later, PR still hasn't sought out
work, refuses to, says she is too sick.
6) lied and said that she would go back to the UK, gave her $ and she
went on a vacation and then came back.
7) applied for naturalization sometime this year, when she found out
that sponsor has no more money. This is a long process and we haven't
even seen the checks get cashed and it's been 2 months since she
applied. Did she apply? Or made us think that she applied?
8) PR went to apply for Means tested public benefits and was denied
because sponsor didn't have a job.
9) Now PR is demanding back payments, we are paying her, but
begrudgingly.
How can you prove that someone married for money and not for love? She
has been in this country since '98 and a PR since 99, so she has
status. She never plans on working, she doesn't want to be a US
citizen and she won't go back to her country. What can we do? Will we
have to pay her 125% of the poverty level for the rest of our natural
lives?
they go broke because a permanent resident they are sponsoring hasn't
worked in 4 years and refuses to work.
Here are the premises of this example....
1) PR leaves sponsor after sponsor takes her to a nice dinner and a
shopping spree the night before.
2) PR says she is going to visit a friend, emails him 3 days later
saying that she left him for another guy she met online (after a 5 year
marriage) and that her car was in the airport terminal.
3) Demands payments and threatens sponsor. PR and boyfriend are living
off of sponsors money and laughing all the way to the bank.
4) sponsor lost 14 year job because of PR's mental breakdowns, went to
hospitals to get her on meds, PR had hysterectomy at 28 or so. Then
she stopped meds and had thoughts of blood surrounding her when she
closed her eyes.
5) sponsor now has no money, 2 years later, PR still hasn't sought out
work, refuses to, says she is too sick.
6) lied and said that she would go back to the UK, gave her $ and she
went on a vacation and then came back.
7) applied for naturalization sometime this year, when she found out
that sponsor has no more money. This is a long process and we haven't
even seen the checks get cashed and it's been 2 months since she
applied. Did she apply? Or made us think that she applied?
8) PR went to apply for Means tested public benefits and was denied
because sponsor didn't have a job.
9) Now PR is demanding back payments, we are paying her, but
begrudgingly.
How can you prove that someone married for money and not for love? She
has been in this country since '98 and a PR since 99, so she has
status. She never plans on working, she doesn't want to be a US
citizen and she won't go back to her country. What can we do? Will we
have to pay her 125% of the poverty level for the rest of our natural
lives?
You question is one of FAMILY LAW and not really one of immigration law. However, you do ask some ineresting questions on the effect of an I-864 -- the rights of the beneficiary to enforce the contract. There has really been quite little in the way of litigation on this.
Your friend should retain a family law attorney and make sure to bring up the I-864.
Apr 23rd 2006, 5:17 pm
#3
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Posts: 4,316
Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Originally Posted by wendysmf
Okay, now I know that this is the law, but who can help the sponsor if
they go broke because a permanent resident they are sponsoring hasn't
worked in 4 years and refuses to work.
they go broke because a permanent resident they are sponsoring hasn't
worked in 4 years and refuses to work.
From the USCIS website, "How Do I File An Affidavit of Support for a Relative?" (emphasis added by me)
What Are My Responsibilities as a Sponsor?
When you sign the Affidavit of Support, you accept legal responsibility for financially supporting the sponsored immigrant(s) until they become U.S. citizens or can be credited with 40 quarters of work. ... If the immigrant receives any "means-tested public benefits," you are responsible for repaying the cost of those benefits to the agency that provided them. If you do not repay the debt, the agency can sue you in court to get the money owed. When in doubt, ask the benefit provider whether the benefit is a 'means-tested public benefit.'"
You don't say if your friend is divorced from this woman and if they had any agreement regarding alimony. If they did then that might explain what the payments are for.
I'm surprised that your friend didn't seek legal assistance on this from the get-go. If he hasn't already, he needs to do so now.
~ Jenney
Apr 23rd 2006, 5:50 pm
#4
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Originally Posted by wendysmf
9) Now PR is demanding back payments, we are paying her, but begrudgingly.
wendy,
Who, besides the PR, "demanded" that you pay anything to begin with?
Like Jenney I'm surprised, because it sounds like there was no legal assistance in the whole case.
Apr 23rd 2006, 9:08 pm
#5
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Posts: 871
Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Wendy, I think your boyfriend has been "had". To be brutally honest, I think he's either a doormat or he still has a thing for his ex if he has been supporting her all this time.
Absent an alimony agreement/court order, I wouldn't make payments to an ex, affidavit of support or not. And to pay for her citizenship application! Puh-leese!
But that's just me. Your bf needs to talk to a divorce lawyer!
Absent an alimony agreement/court order, I wouldn't make payments to an ex, affidavit of support or not. And to pay for her citizenship application! Puh-leese!
But that's just me. Your bf needs to talk to a divorce lawyer!
Apr 24th 2006, 2:24 pm
#6
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Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Actually if you read the I864 carefully, the sponsor isn't only
responsible for paying back means tested public benefits, but they are
to pay the immigrant 125% of the poverty level until they get 40
quarters of work, becomes a US citizen, goes back to the UK, or dies.
These are the rules, alimony is not what this is. The divorce
proceedings DID NOT include alimony, she got nothing as far as his
assets were concerned. I am talking solely about the 1864. You should
read this document a bit more clearly, because it DOES state that the
sponsor HAS to pay the immigrant until one of these 4 things comes to
fruition. My question is how can we get her to work, go back to her
country, or become a citizen, we can't help her die, that is something
she will have to do herself.
responsible for paying back means tested public benefits, but they are
to pay the immigrant 125% of the poverty level until they get 40
quarters of work, becomes a US citizen, goes back to the UK, or dies.
These are the rules, alimony is not what this is. The divorce
proceedings DID NOT include alimony, she got nothing as far as his
assets were concerned. I am talking solely about the 1864. You should
read this document a bit more clearly, because it DOES state that the
sponsor HAS to pay the immigrant until one of these 4 things comes to
fruition. My question is how can we get her to work, go back to her
country, or become a citizen, we can't help her die, that is something
she will have to do herself.
Apr 24th 2006, 2:30 pm
#7
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Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
If we don't pay her 125% of the poverty level my now husband will get
put in jail and fined. These are the laws, I have read them and
re-read them had a lawyer go over it with us. These ARE the laws. I
guess my question still stands, how is this something we can prevent
from the government from doing? Letting the sponsor take ALL of the
responsibility.
Now if she does become a citizen, we will no longer support her per the
I864 agreement. That is also the law. Per 1996 laws from Pres
Clinton. If she does become a citizen you can all thank the government
for using our tax dollars, because I know SHE WILL go and get means
tested public benefits and we will not have to pay them back if she is
a citizen. So, we can all look forward to that because she refuses to
work.
Oh and my husband was had, he does not care for this women any longer,
she is just a nuisance and we want her to stop depending on us.
put in jail and fined. These are the laws, I have read them and
re-read them had a lawyer go over it with us. These ARE the laws. I
guess my question still stands, how is this something we can prevent
from the government from doing? Letting the sponsor take ALL of the
responsibility.
Now if she does become a citizen, we will no longer support her per the
I864 agreement. That is also the law. Per 1996 laws from Pres
Clinton. If she does become a citizen you can all thank the government
for using our tax dollars, because I know SHE WILL go and get means
tested public benefits and we will not have to pay them back if she is
a citizen. So, we can all look forward to that because she refuses to
work.
Oh and my husband was had, he does not care for this women any longer,
she is just a nuisance and we want her to stop depending on us.
Apr 24th 2006, 2:32 pm
#8
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Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Alos, as stated here...
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsf...iles/I-864.pdf
Sponsor's Obligation
The person completing this affidavit is the sponsor.
sponsor's obligation continues until the sponsored
becomes a U.S. citizen, can be credited with
quarters of work, departs the United States permanently,
dies. Divorce does not terminate the obligation.
this form, you, the sponsor, agree to support the
immigrant and any spouse and/or children immigrating
or her and to reimburse any government agency
entity that provides these sponsored immigrants
State, or local means-tested public benefits.
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsf...iles/I-864.pdf
Sponsor's Obligation
The person completing this affidavit is the sponsor.
sponsor's obligation continues until the sponsored
becomes a U.S. citizen, can be credited with
quarters of work, departs the United States permanently,
dies. Divorce does not terminate the obligation.
this form, you, the sponsor, agree to support the
immigrant and any spouse and/or children immigrating
or her and to reimburse any government agency
entity that provides these sponsored immigrants
State, or local means-tested public benefits.
Apr 24th 2006, 2:39 pm
#9
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Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
She has an immigration lawyer, we have spoken to him many times and he
states that the payments are to be made infinitum. Can you believe
that? I thought I could get some insight from this thread.
states that the payments are to be made infinitum. Can you believe
that? I thought I could get some insight from this thread.
Apr 24th 2006, 2:48 pm
#10
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Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
[email protected] wrote:
> Actually if you read the I864 carefully, the sponsor isn't only
> responsible for paying back means tested public benefits, but they are
> to pay the immigrant 125% of the poverty level until they get 40
> quarters of work, becomes a US citizen, goes back to the UK, or dies.
From page 4, indeed: "I agree to provide the sponsored immigrant(s)
whatever support is necessary to maintain the sponsored immigrant(s)
at an income that is at least 125 percent of the Federal poverty
guidelines." (Page 4 of the I-864 form itself, that is, excluding
the introduction/explanatory notes; it's page 8 of the PDF that
can be downloaded from
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsf...iles/I-864.pdf.)
I don't think it says they have to pay the immigrant 125% of the
poverty level -- only that they have to maintain them at that
income level. If the sponsored immigrant had any other source
of income that would help, I'd imagine. But I'd go ask a lawyer.
-- James
> Actually if you read the I864 carefully, the sponsor isn't only
> responsible for paying back means tested public benefits, but they are
> to pay the immigrant 125% of the poverty level until they get 40
> quarters of work, becomes a US citizen, goes back to the UK, or dies.
From page 4, indeed: "I agree to provide the sponsored immigrant(s)
whatever support is necessary to maintain the sponsored immigrant(s)
at an income that is at least 125 percent of the Federal poverty
guidelines." (Page 4 of the I-864 form itself, that is, excluding
the introduction/explanatory notes; it's page 8 of the PDF that
can be downloaded from
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsf...iles/I-864.pdf.)
I don't think it says they have to pay the immigrant 125% of the
poverty level -- only that they have to maintain them at that
income level. If the sponsored immigrant had any other source
of income that would help, I'd imagine. But I'd go ask a lawyer.
-- James
Apr 24th 2006, 2:49 pm
#11
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Originally Posted by wendysmf
Actually if you read the I864 carefully, the sponsor isn't only
responsible for paying back means tested public benefits, but they are
to pay the immigrant 125% of the poverty level until they get 40
quarters of work, becomes a US citizen, goes back to the UK, or dies.
These are the rules, alimony is not what this is. The divorce
proceedings DID NOT include alimony, she got nothing as far as his
assets were concerned. I am talking solely about the 1864. You should
read this document a bit more clearly, because it DOES state that the
sponsor HAS to pay the immigrant until one of these 4 things comes to
fruition. My question is how can we get her to work, go back to her
country, or become a citizen, we can't help her die, that is something
she will have to do herself.
responsible for paying back means tested public benefits, but they are
to pay the immigrant 125% of the poverty level until they get 40
quarters of work, becomes a US citizen, goes back to the UK, or dies.
These are the rules, alimony is not what this is. The divorce
proceedings DID NOT include alimony, she got nothing as far as his
assets were concerned. I am talking solely about the 1864. You should
read this document a bit more clearly, because it DOES state that the
sponsor HAS to pay the immigrant until one of these 4 things comes to
fruition. My question is how can we get her to work, go back to her
country, or become a citizen, we can't help her die, that is something
she will have to do herself.
The I-864 is a CONTRACT. There may very well be defenses to enforcement of that contract. There are defenses that are applicable to almost any contract -- the duty to mitigate defense pops to mind. There may be other "equitable" defenses.
There was one case which was noted on this NG a few years back where back payments were enforced on an I-864 -- in reading the opinion it appeared to me that the Family Law court simply had not addressed the issue.
As I said earlier, there is little in the way of litigation on this. I was consulted by a law school classmate on a divorce action involving these issues -- the alien wife was working. The dissolution settlement had the US citizen husband keeping his soon-to-be ex- on his health insurance and to pay the premium for her and had the court reserve support issues as per the I-864.
Each case is different and there has been little development in the law.
Apr 24th 2006, 3:12 pm
#12
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Posts: 16,266
Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Originally Posted by wendysmf
If we don't pay her 125% of the poverty level my now husband will get put in jail and fined.
Put in jail and fined for what? You have introduced a new issue: blackmail is a totally different from what you orginally posted. You made no prior mention that your friend may have engaged in some criminal activity.
Apr 24th 2006, 3:13 pm
#13
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Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Originally Posted by Folinskyinla
Each case is different and there has been little development in the law.
Ian
Apr 24th 2006, 3:14 pm
#14
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Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Originally Posted by wendysmf
She has an immigration lawyer, we have spoken to him many times and he
states that the payments are to be made infinitum. Can you believe
that? I thought I could get some insight from this thread.
states that the payments are to be made infinitum. Can you believe
that? I thought I could get some insight from this thread.
The key words in your post is "SHE has an immigration lawyer ..." I mentioned before he should get HIS lawyer.
However, you other post indicating that your friend is being blackmailed for something else has me thinking.
Apr 24th 2006, 3:29 pm
#15
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Posts: 2
Re: Permanent Resident Divorces Sponsor, Demands I864 Support Payments
Originally Posted by Folinskyinla
Hi:
Put in jail and fined for what? You have introduced a new issue: blackmail is a totally different from what you orginally posted. You made no prior mention that your friend may have engaged in some criminal activity.
Put in jail and fined for what? You have introduced a new issue: blackmail is a totally different from what you orginally posted. You made no prior mention that your friend may have engaged in some criminal activity.
I did read the court case I think Mr F is refering to, the judgement was a bit weird, I have no idea whether it would be upheld in your case, but from memory:
It was a Russian Mail Order Bride situation
She was working and was required to actively mitigate her loss
The issue of how much the 125% was came up, I think they divided the 125% figure for 2 people in half. Then they deducted her earnings so it was not a mega figure.
And it was I think time limited.
I seem to remember the link was to a pdf on www.ilw.com, but can not remember the case or know how to search for it.
I can see the logic of paying the cost for her to naturalise, or a one way ticket! Probably the easiest cheapest solution.
Could Mr F advise the case name?
And to state the obvious, there is no 'we' involved here, only the Sponsor would have responsibility.