Stephan

hey comrads in suffering,

i joined this usegroup today and actually i am not sure whether this was a good
idea - having applied in nebraska only some weeks ago made my mood very bad. to say
the least.

well, i do not know what kind of problems they have in Nebraska, but i feel totally
fooled. actually it seems it was the most ineffective way to apply for the k-1. i am
studying in germany and the plan was for me to move to my fiance and start a m.a.
program in january. i would have got a student visa if i had not applied for the
fiance visa and could have married while i am in the states on this visa. now, doing
it the "right" way, i propably might not be able to start this program?? hell, this
is ridiculous!

it seems i have to come up with a god idea. does anyone know whether there is a legal
way to get a student visa while the k-1 is pending?

stephan

Rete

I'm a littled confused. Are your the US Citizen? Or the alien fiancee? If you are the AF, then you didn't apply for anything. The I-129F is a petition submitted by the US Citizen. You chance will come with the K-1 at the US Consulate in Frankfurt.

There's nothing to stop your fiancee from cancelling the I-129F and you applying for a student visa. Your name is not yet in the system although you have to lie on the F-1 application you might not be caught. The choice is yours.

As for the wait time at the NSC, that is only one of the issues in the terms of timelines. My reading of so many posts puts a long timeline on all visa processing at the US Consulates on the European continent with the exception of the UK. Germany is not a frequently used Consulate so reoprts from there are few and far between. But everyone seems to be complaining about the longevity of getting the IBIS reports done at the Consulate levels.

Rete

Telman.8

"Rete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm a littled confused. Are your the US Citizen? Or the alien fiancee? If you are
    > the AF, then you didn't apply for anything. The I-129F is a petition submitted by
    > the US Citizen.

Technically, this is correct. But don't forget that the evidence (photographs and
letter of intent and flight tickets, etc., not to mention the G325) tends to involve
two people, not one. It is naive to say that the alien did not apply for anything.
The fact that the petition comes from the American citizen does not make it a solo
application. Even less so as the application is for a visa for the alien, not for
the American.

Apologies in advance, but I find the somewhat dismissive language used patronizing at
its best and potentially offensive. Your postings and information are highly valued.
It is disappointing to see we aliens relegated to less than also-rans.

Telman

Rete

Yes it is a solo application at this point in time. It is the USC only that is trying to convince the INS that they have a relationship with a foreign national in another country. It only becomes a "joint" project when alien fiancee has to join in by documenting their lives, medical history, and criminal background and/or lack thereof when the USC has convinced the INS of the validity of the relationship.

As for your disappointment, I don't see when or what you are talking about. What is an "also-rans"? I had an alien financee and then an alien husband and now have a Permanent Resident husband and sometime in 2004 I will have a USC husband. As for my dismissive language, again I don't see where you see that but hey, to each their own way of interpreting another's writing. As Popeye would say, I am what I am and that's all that I am. I won't apologize for being me and change my way of writing or wording my posts. No apologies required on your part either. You are very entitled to your opinion and thank you for sharing it.

Rete

Stephan

Stephan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > hey comrads in suffering,
    > i joined this usegroup today and actually i am not sure whether this was a good
    > idea - having applied in nebraska only some weeks ago made my mood
very
    > bad. to say the least.


telman.8 <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]
t...
    > "Rete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I'm a littled confused. Are your the US Citizen? Or the alien fiancee? If you
    > > are the AF, then you didn't apply for anything. The I-129F is a petition
    > > submitted by the US Citizen.
    > Technically, this is correct. But don't forget that the evidence (photographs and
    > letter of intent and flight tickets, etc., not to mention the G325) tends to
    > involve two people, not one. It is naive to say that
the
    > alien did not apply for anything. The fact that the petition comes from
the
    > American citizen does not make it a solo application. Even less so as the
    > application is for a visa for the alien, not for the American.


sorry, my fault. improper language use might cause heavy misunderstandings. yes, i
am the "alien" (at least i really would like to, but i am kind of stuck in being
"native" in germany right now;-)). and yes, marriage involves two people, so we
applied for the visa that allows us to be together to marry.

by the way, i'll try to visit her in a few days, so cross fingers they'll let me in.

stephan

Toby Everett

Rete <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by Telman.8:
    > > .
    > >
    > > Apologies in advance, but I find the somewhat dismissive language used
    > > patronizing at its best and potentially offensive. Your postings and information
    > > are highly valued. It is disappointing to see we aliens relegated to less than
    > > also-rans.
    > As for your disappointment, I don't see when or what you are talking about. What
    > is an "also-rans"? I had an alien financee and then an alien husband and now have
    > a Permanent Resident husband and sometime in 2004 I will have a USC husband. As
    > for my dismissive language, again I don't see where you see that but hey, to each
    > their own way of interpreting another's writing.
I went back and re-read Rete's post several times. It's fairly crisp and factual,
and it was very easy for me to read it out loud with totally different intonations.
In one intonation, it was totally dismissive and quite rude. In another intonation,
it became a caring post seeking to educate someone who might have been confused.
It's a perfect example of why emoticons evolved - most of us (including me) don't
have extensive training in the field of written communications, and so we tend to
presume that other people will read our work the same way we read it to ourselves.
It's nice to have a good example reminding me that the message I receive is _never_
the same as the message that was sent!

--Toby Everett

Telman.8

"Toby Everett" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
om...

    > I went back and re-read Rete's post several times. It's fairly crisp and factual,
    > and it was very easy for me to read it out loud with totally different intonations.
    > In one intonation, it was totally dismissive and quite rude. In another
    > intonation, it became a caring post seeking to educate someone who might have been
    > confused.

If this was an isolated instance, I probably would not have bothered writing.
Regrettably, it isn't. You will have noted that the myth is perpetuated - that the
petition is a solo effort. In other words, the US citizen can make an application
without there being another person involved? The whole approach and attitude is
symptomatic.

Rete's posts are valued - I do not detract from that. But some of them are not
particularly tactful and, as a result, may lead the reader to focus on the manner in
which the post is expressed as opposed to the content. Which, in the context of the
information and advice Rete is able to impart to this newsgroup, is unfortunate to
say the least.

Telman

Des

Hi Stephan,

there are a few people applying for a K-1 or I-130 going through Frankfurt that are
also posting on this newsgroup. Search for posts from Bastian Freitag, swoosh, kacey,
lonely german, Dan2Tx, Zara (ZareahUSA), Donna / Christian Herboth, mca ... or simply
search for Frankfurt consulate.

If you have questions on adjusting from a F-1 student visa, let me know - that was my
way of adjusting, though I did not know my USC husband when entering the US (so none
of your potential complications
    . Just make sure they don't give you a J-1 visa, otherwise you might
have a 2-year home requirement afterwards! Good luck!

- Des

rogerpenycate

"If this was an isolated instance, I probably would not have bothered writing.
Regrettably, it isn't. You will have noted that the myth is perpetuated
Rete's posts are valued - I do not detract from that. But some of them are not
particularly tactful and, as a result, may lead the reader to focus on the manner in
which the post is expressed as opposed to the content. Which, in the context of the
information and advice Rete is able to impart to this newsgroup, is unfortunate to
say the least.

Telman
[/QUOTE]



mmmmmmmm..........
Firstly I am not defending Rete, she doesn't need or want it
(and contrary to opinion, I am not her sidekick ;o) we just happened to have replied to some of the same postings and
sort of "got along" so to speak, with a common goal, to help folks with our expereinces (albeit mine very limited and restricted only to the I-130 London)
So this posting is from me and me alone.
For some reason you have singled her out with your inflamatory remarks, I am sure you will find others on here
far worse, even sarcastic and downnright rude.
We all have our way of posting, and I've taken some stick for sometimes being a bit flippant and light-hearted, that's just my way, but underneath that is a serious attempt to help.

Many people post on here looking for "easy answers" and only want to hear good news. (I was gulity of that myself when
I first asked for help and advice)
This process is not like that, it is very hard, stressful (as most of us know) and so it is better to be straight-forth from the start.
The first lesson I learned was never to tell the INS any lies.
Surely that is also true when replying to postings, there is no
point trying to offer soft options and give false hope to folks however stressed out they may be.
We all want to know the truth in our individual situation so that we can realise the best ways to deal with any problems or potential pitfalls.

Sometimes people asking for advice on here seem to be abrupt, however you have to realise that this ng is 24 hours a day and covers the globe, which inevitably means that some posters command of the English language is not always as good as ours and can therefore be miss-interpreted as being
abrasive.

Personally, I found your posting abusive, however that is your prerogative, as it is mine to reply in this fashion.

I wonder how many people Rete has helped get their visas
over the years, despite her "style of posting"

Roger

Katie

In article <[email protected]>, rogerpenycate says...

    >I wonder how many people Rete has helped get their visas over the years, despite her
    >"style of posting"

I've never had a problem with Rete's posts, or anyone in the group. I look at the
group as I do a room full of people. Like you say, there's all kinds. Some you take
to straight away, some are hard to get along with, and others are just there and you
really don't notice them. In this group there's a common cause. And collectively,
among the posts there is a lot to be gained.

-katie

Rete

Safe flight Stephan. Let us know when we can uncross the digits.

Rete

BTW what part of Germany are you from? I was born in Karlshrue and still have relatives there I visit infrequently.

Shannon

Honestly, I share Telman's perspective on the K1 visa application. In my case it was the I-130 which my husband submitted... but, while I am quite clear that HE was teh petitioner to the INS, my name was on the document as the alien spouse, thus it felt like our application.

I take the point of the poster who tried to explain the dual reading of the tone. And Rete is technically correct in saying that in INS terms it was his petition.

It is easy to take offence in this and other online forums. The lack of context sometimes sets of emotions. I try not to but have often been startled and almost-hurt by what seems like arrogance and rudeness from Rete.

After reading many of her posts I no longer take it at all personally (even if in response to something I wrote). Her style is just blunt and "as she sees the facts".

Shannon

Toby Everett

"telman.8" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > If this was an isolated instance, I probably would not have bothered writing.
    > Regrettably, it isn't. You will have noted that the myth is perpetuated - that the
    > petition is a solo effort. In other words, the US citizen can make an application
    > without there being another person involved? The whole approach and attitude is
    > symptomatic.
There are two ways of looking at the petition. Legally, it is the work of one person
with the exceptions of the G-325A and the signed letter of intent from the foreign
fiance(e). From the perspective of the INS, the petition is the work of the US
citizen. I think what Rete is trying to do, even if she's not aware of it, is to
remind people that they need to think about things from the perspective of the INS,
because it is the INS they are trying to convince.

Perhaps the best way to think about the whole situation is to accept that both
parties need to think about the application two ways. They need to think about it as
it will be received by the INS, which is to say it is a petition by the US citizen.
There may be parts of it that the alien fiance(e) contributed, but the alien
fiance(e) is not considered to be involved in the petition any more than a
congressperson would be involved in the petition if they contributed a letter. The
other way they need to think about it is as a joint project by both parties. Within
both of their minds and within the context of their relationship, they have to be
able to switch back and forth between these two ways of conceptualizing the petition.
If, for instance, the INS is not satisfied with the alien fiance(e)'s G-325A, the INS
isn't going to contact the alien fiance(e) - they will contact the US citizen, and
the US citizen will be responsible for contacting the alien fiance(e) and getting
things straightened out.

On the other hand, the K-1 application is considered a one person application by the
alien fiance(e), even though the US citizen contributes to it, including the I-134.
Similarly, in this situation if there is a problem with the I-134, the consulate is
going to inform the alien fiance(e), not the US citizen.

    > Rete's posts are valued - I do not detract from that. But some of them are not
    > particularly tactful and, as a result, may lead the reader to focus on the manner
    > in which the post is expressed as opposed to the content. Which, in the context of
    > the information and advice Rete is able to impart to this newsgroup, is unfortunate
    > to say the least.
A lot of it depends upon the voicing. There's a lot of grey area in the voicing of
Rete's posts, but I feel there are ways of reading them that involve a lot of
compassion. I try to read her posts pretending she's a no-nonsense immigration
attorney who knows she's expensive, and so she doesn't have a lot of time, and she's
trying to get her clients straightened out as quickly as possible, so her words are
harsh but her tone is caring. Unfortunately, that works a lot better verbally,
because when you translate that to the printed page, all of the caring tone and body
language don't make it and it's easy to read them as rude and tactless, which,
technically, they probably are. I'm just saying that I don't think she intends them
that way, and that it's possible to read them in a manner which doesn't have that
interpretation.

--Toby Everett

P.S. Perhaps Rete's motto, the extended form, could be taken from the following Ani
DiFranco lyrics (sung in a very happy manner): 'cause i'm not going to pretend
that i don't pick my nose that's just the way it is, my friends that's just
the way it goes this is who i am, what i do, and what i say if you like it,
let it be if you don't, please do the same 'cause i fight with love and i
laugh with rage you gotta live light enough to see the humor and long enough
to see some change

donahso

Toby, I really like the way you laid out the two perspectives, but have a little different one to ponder.

Based on my understanding:

The I-129F is filed by the USC and only the USC (or legal rep) has any standing. Beneficiaries are not entitled to information about the status of the petitiion and INS will not tell the beneficiary.

Once approved and the K1 is in process, both the petitioner and beneficiary have standing at the consulate. The consulate officer is free to discuss it with either party. The beneficiary, however, is the one who must do the work.

In your example, you used the I-134 as an example of the consulate dealing with the fiancee rather than the USC. On this point, I must disagree. I don't remember where I read it (maybe on the form or one of the State Dept. or consulate web sites) but the I-134 can be sent directly to the consulate by the USC as 'confidential'. The beneficiary does not have a 'right' to see it. Maybe the consulate will inform the beneficiary that it is unacceptable and they will have to inform the USC to provide another. Or, maybe they will notify the USC directly.

I would prefer not to ferret out the source of my I-134 info, but unless Rete (bless her heart) or someone else who is credible can confirm it, I will do so. Just for the record.

The original post was titled "NSC and discrimination". IMHO, it does not on the basis of nationality, only on the USCs who must go through them.

-Don H

Stephan

Hi Des, thanx for the offer. The first priority is to enter the states though. But
for I will see the university anyways to make things work there, i might switch to
this way of doing it if NSC is not hurrying up. Well, it would be slightly illegal to
enter on a tourist visa and marry then (even if we did it after sixty days), at least
not how i am supposed to do it and I really prefer to do it the straight way. But who
knows... Anyways, thanx again. Stephan

Des <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
    > If you have questions on adjusting from a F-1 student visa, let me know - that was
    > my way of adjusting, though I did not know my USC husband when entering the US (so
    > none of your potential complications
    > . Just make sure they don't give you a J-1 visa, otherwise you might
    > have a 2-year home requirement afterwards! Good luck!
    > - Des