Luke & Christiane

Hello All -

I'm American and my fiancée is French. She is here on a 6 month
tourist visa. We will have a church wedding in France in June, and are
trying to figure out whether to get married legally in the US before
she returns to France in March or to have the legal ceremony in France
just before the church wedding. If all goes as planned, I will be able
to spend the next year in France. We eventually intend to live in the
US.

I called the French consulate in New York, and a woman there
recommended that we marry in the US because to marry in France would
require that I have a carte de sejour or some such thing. But I would
sooner trust someone with actual experience. We've seen posts in this
group to the contrary: that because of Direct Consular Filing (a
concept I haven't yet mastered) we would be better off marrying in
France.

If anyone could offer any advice we would be grateful.

Many thanks,

Luke and Christiane

Rete

Why would you not believe a French representative to know the marriage requirements for their own country? Yes many foreign countries require a certificate of eligibility to marry, i.e. a certificate that states you have never been married, etc. A not so easy thing to get in the US but can be obtained usually at the Secretary of State for your State or Commonwealth.

As for direct consular filing in Paris when you are ready, it does NOT matter where your marriage took place. As long as you are legally wed in the eyes of the US government, that is all that matters on that front.

Rete

Luke & Christiane

A carte de sejour is a permission to live in France - it's a very
different sort of thing. And as far as the official is concerned, her
opinion was unsubstantiated; that's not strong enough for me. I was
hoping someone who had direct experience with this situation in France
might be able to help.

Thanks,
Luke and Christiane

Rete <member167@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Why would you not believe a French representative to know the marriage
    > requirements for their own country? Yes many foreign countries require
    > a certificate of eligibility to marry, i.e. a certificate that states
    > you have never been married, etc. A not so easy thing to get in the US
    > but can be obtained usually at the Secretary of State for your State or
    > Commonwealth.
    >
    >
    >
    > As for direct consular filing in Paris when you are ready, it does
    > NOT matter where your marriage took place. As long as you are
    > legally wed in the eyes of the US government, that is all that
    > matters on that front.
    >
    >
    >
    > Rete
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Originally posted by Luke & Christiane
    >
    > > Hello All -
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I'm American and my fiancée is French. She is here on a 6 month
    >
    > > tourist visa. We will have a church wedding in France in June, and are
    >
    > > trying to figure out whether to get married legally in the US before
    >
    > > she returns to France in March or to have the legal ceremony in France
    >
    > > just before the church wedding. If all goes as planned, I will be able
    >
    > > to spend the next year in France. We eventually intend to live in the
    >
    > > US.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I called the French consulate in New York, and a woman there
    >
    > > recommended that we marry in the US because to marry in France would
    >
    > > require that I have a carte de sejour or some such thing. But I would
    >
    > > sooner trust someone with actual experience. We've seen posts in this
    >
    > > group to the contrary: that because of Direct Consular Filing (a
    >
    > > concept I haven't yet mastered) we would be better off marrying in
    >
    > > France.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > If anyone could offer any advice we would be grateful.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Many thanks,
    >
    > >
    >
    > Luke and Christiane

lpdiver

Have you check the French embassy website?

lpdiver

1.A valid passport or a carte de sejour.

2.A birth certificate extrait d'acte de naissance less than 3 months old supplied by a bureau of records, not a hospital.

3.A certificate of "celibacy" (attestation tenant lieu de declaration en vue de mariage ou de non-remariage) less than 3 months old.

4.A medical certificate (certificat médical prénuptial) less than 3 months old, stating that the individual was examined by a doctor en vue de mariage. This can be provided by any qualified doctor practicing in France.

5.The tests are: serological tests for syphilis, serological tests to determine blood types and, for women, serological tests for rubella and toxoplasma.

6.Proof of domicile (justificatifs de domicile). The resident party must supply 2 documents proving residence in the commune, for example an EDF bill, telephone account, rent receipt or residential insurance documents.

7.If pre-nuptial agreements are to be made, this must be done with a lawyer (notaire) who will provide a certificat du notaire which must be submitted to the mairie. It must have been drawn up no more than 2 months prior to the marriage.

.8.If there are no pre-nuptial contracts, then the parties will be married under the communauté réduite aux acquets. This means that what each party owns personally before the marriage, or whatever comes to them afterwards through inheritance, remains their property. Only that which is acquired during the marriage is owned equally by both parties.

9.In the case of previous marriages the parties must provide a certified copy of the death certificate of the deceased spouse or a certified copy of the final divorce decree.

10.A child born prior to the marriage may be legitimised. The town hall must be notified and a copy of the birth certificate provided (in particular indicating the fact of recognition).

11.Foreign Nationals may be required to provide an Affidavit of Law (certificat de coutume) and an Affidavit of Marital Status. These statements concern marriage laws in the foreigners home country and are required to certify that the party may, under law of their country, be married. The relevant Embassy will have documents, available at a fee.

The Civil Ceremony:

JoshsCarole

Hi Luke and Christiane,

My husband is American, I am French, and we got married in France. Josh did NOT need a carte de sejour. However, if you want to stay after the wedding, you will need one. But you can get a VPF (Vie Privee et Familiale) carte de sejour only after the wedding. There is no need to go through trouble to get another sort of carte de sejour (for example salarie) before the wedding. You can just stay after the wedding and apply for the card and they won't give you trouble. That would make you a resident of France and would allow you to go the DCF route (although it is now said that the Consulate in Paris does DCF even for non-french resident USCs).

I don't think marrying in France or the US would matter at all in all this. If you've already been to France, you've probably noticed that going through French immigration at the airport is a piece of cake as they don't ask you any question as to the purpose of your trip (unlike the American immigration!). At either rate, I don't think being married to a French person would be a reason for keeping you out of the country. You could therefore ask for a carte de sejour the same way.

If you do decide to get married in France, here is the link from the consulate in Paris that tells you which papers you need: http://www.amb-usa.fr/consul/guideoas/marri.pdf

Best of luck!

Carole

Luke & Christiane

Dear Carole,

MANY thanks for your help; this is the first bit of concrete advice
we've had! The question of US or France seems to depend less the
French side (as you've said, it's pretty straightforward) but on what
would happen when we eventually come back to the US. Would Christiane
have had a great advantage in obtaining a green card etc having been
married in the US? Or does it even matter? I'm sure we'd both rather
have all the ceremonies done in France, but if it would simplify all
the paperwork for the return to the US we'd just have a legal wedding
in new york before she returns to France. I'm not even sure that would
be a good idea; I've read that there are problems if you bring someone
to the US on a tourist visa with the intention to marry them...

thanks again,
Luke and Christiane

JoshsCarole

Luke and Christiane,

Glad I could be helpful! =)

If you ever wanted to go back to the US, you would apply at the consulate in Paris for DCF since you would still be living together in France. A french or an american wedding has the same value internationally, so it wouldn't matter to them where you got married. I truly believe it would make NO difference.

Another thing you might want to consider is the cost of the papers for the wedding itself. When we got married in France, Josh needed a certificat de coutume, which cost him a hefty $200 (we got it in the US from a lawyer accredited by the French embassy there--you can get the list of those on their website), and a certificat de celibat which we had to go get at the consulate in Paris itself, and that was $35. Then add to that the medical examination and blood tests which are required (Christiane's will be covered by the securite sociale, but not yours. I don't remember how much we paid for those). It's sort of a pain to gather all the papers, but it's not too tough. I don't know what you need to get married in the US, but I've heard that it was cheaper and easier.

About getting married in the US, yes it is technically illegal to come on a tourist visa/waiver to marry. This is referred to as a "ten-foot pole" topic on this forum, you can do a search on it.

Quoi que vous fassiez, je vous souhaite le plus grand bonheur! =)

Carole

Sophie T

Hello,

Just a little note about marrying in the US from our experience. My husband
and I married while he was here visiting, but he had no intention of
remaining in the US at that time. The requirements for marriage vary by
state. Mine (Tennessee) only required identification from both of us
(passport was fine). I later flew to Switzerland and we filed via DCF. We
had no problems with it at all. It's my understanding that one can marry in
the US as long as that person intends to leave after. Since Christiane is
already here in the US, it seems it may be easier to be officially married
here, and then have the other ceremony in France.

Best wishes to you both,

Sophie

"JoshsCarole" <member15600@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Originally posted by Luke & Christiane
    > > Dear Carole,
    > >
    > > MANY thanks for your help; this is the first bit of concrete advice
    > > we've had! The question of US or France seems to depend less the
    > > French side (as you've said, it's pretty straightforward) but on what
    > > would happen when we eventually come back to the US. Would Christiane
    > > have had a great advantage in obtaining a green card etc having been
    > > married in the US? Or does it even matter? I'm sure we'd both rather
    > > have all the ceremonies done in France, but if it would simplify all
    > > the paperwork for the return to the US we'd just have a legal wedding
    > > in new york before she returns to France. I'm not even sure that would
    > > be a good idea; I've read that there are problems if you bring someone
    > > to the US on a tourist visa with the intention to marry them...
    > >
    > > thanks again,
    > > Luke and Christiane
    > Luke and Christiane,
    > Glad I could be helpful! =)
    > If you ever wanted to go back to the US, you would apply at the
    > consulate in Paris for DCF since you would still be living together in
    > France. A french or an american wedding has the same value
    > internationally, so it wouldn't matter to them where you got married. I
    > truly believe it would make NO difference.
    > Another thing you might want to consider is the cost of the papers for
    > the wedding itself. When we got married in France, Josh needed a
    > certificat de coutume, which cost him a hefty $200 (we got it in the
    > US from a lawyer accredited by the French embassy there--you can get
    > the list of those on their website), and a certificat de celibat which
    > we had to go get at the consulate in Paris itself, and that was $35.
    > Then add to that the medical examination and blood tests which are
    > required (Christiane's will be covered by the securite sociale, but
    > not yours. I don't remember how much we paid for those). It's sort of
    > a pain to gather all the papers, but it's not too tough. I don't know
    > what you need to get married in the US, but I've heard that it was
    > cheaper and easier.
    > About getting married in the US, yes it is technically illegal to come
    > on a tourist visa/waiver to marry. This is referred to as a "ten-foot
    > pole" topic on this forum, you can do a search on it.
    > Quoi que vous fassiez, je vous souhaite le plus grand bonheur! =)
    > Carole
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Andy Platt

"JoshsCarole" <member15600@british_expats.com> wrote:

    > About getting married in the US, yes it is technically illegal to come
    > on a tourist visa/waiver to marry. This is referred to as a "ten-foot
    > pole" topic on this forum, you can do a search on it.

The illegality is purely involved with the intention to remain. It is 100%
legal to come to the US on a visa or use the visa waiver if available to get
married, with the intention to return back home again. The US consulate
website for London specifically states this.

For this poster it seems the intention is to live in France for a year or so
after getting married so getting married in the US and then leaving for
France would be a perfectly acceptable option. It's their call.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination

Luke & Christiane

Dear Carole,

Once again, THANKS! Our initial research into a legal marriage in NYC
showed that it is in fact very simple. Once the marriage license is
issued, we can apply to the consulate for a livret de famille. And I
think the costs are minimal.

As for the ten-foot pole issue, it seems to apply only when people
come on a tourist visa and then intend to stay to legalize themselves
via marriage. Given that Christiane will leave soon after the marriage
it doesn't seem like it will pose a real problem.

One more question: if the marriage takes place in the US, how will
this affect Christiane's legal status in France when she returns? She
is choosing to take my name, and this might present some complications
for her...

Thanks and happy new year,
Luke and Christiane

Luke & Christiane

Dear Sophie,

Your experience is indeed encouraging, and it seems like the best
thing to do, given cost and convenience, is to get married here before
Christiane leaves.

I'm a bit confused about the whole DCF thing. It seems that you can
use DCF whether or not you were married in the US or in France; it's a
question of where you are resident after the marriage takes place.
Does this seem accurate? My initial impression was that DCF was only
intended for couples who get married abroad - I thought that by
getting married in the US first we would be ineligible for DCF and
would have to use some other route. I have to do a bunch more research
on the whole question of visas etc, but I'd like to be sure at least
that I've got this much of the picture straight.

Thanks,

Luke and Christiane

Sophie T

Dear Luke,

Yes, it is a question of where you are resident after the marriage. Some
countries will even allow DCF without the US citizen residing in the
country. I did not live in Switzerland when I filed the petition; we were
simply fortunate that my husband lived in a country where the US consulate
allows it for non-residents. Of course, since you'll be residing in France,
that's a non-issue for you.
I'm not sure about France, but my husband simply had to "register" the
marriage when he returned to Switzerland. (I think he needed the marriage
certificate and my birth certificate or passport copy--it's been a few years
and I cannot remember exactly) It was very simple though.
I understand your confusion on the whole visa issue...it was a huge
headache! Fortunately we found this newsgroup and some of the long-time
members guided us in the right direction.
Have you read some of the experiences on this site?

http://www.kamya.com/interview/

There are lots of experiences you can read about from different countries
including France.

I hope this helps.

Sophie



"Luke & Christiane" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dear Sophie,
    > Your experience is indeed encouraging, and it seems like the best
    > thing to do, given cost and convenience, is to get married here before
    > Christiane leaves.
    > I'm a bit confused about the whole DCF thing. It seems that you can
    > use DCF whether or not you were married in the US or in France; it's a
    > question of where you are resident after the marriage takes place.
    > Does this seem accurate? My initial impression was that DCF was only
    > intended for couples who get married abroad - I thought that by
    > getting married in the US first we would be ineligible for DCF and
    > would have to use some other route. I have to do a bunch more research
    > on the whole question of visas etc, but I'd like to be sure at least
    > that I've got this much of the picture straight.
    > Thanks,
    > Luke and Christiane

Luke & Christiane

Dear Sophie,

Thanks for the link; though the process is a bit tortuous, it seems to
work. Once the ball gets rolling, we will have to come back to this BB
for more info.

As it stands, we will get married in New York before Christiane leaves
in March. We can then register the marriage at the French Consulate,
which will then issue us a livret de famille, which is required by the
religious authorities for the later church wedding in France. Because
I would then be married legally, I can, once in France, apply for a
carte de sejour at the local prefecture. And also begin the process of
the US visa for Christiane.

Thanks for your help, and for the others who contributed answers.
We'll be back once the process officially starts!

Luke and Christiane

Shussbar

    >Once the marriage license is
    >issued, we can apply to the consulate for a livret de famille. And I
    >think the costs are minimal.

I even think that the Livret de famille is free since it is provided by the
French Services de L Etat Civil. Our was free.

    >One more question: if the marriage takes place in the US, how will
    >this affect Christiane's legal status in France when she returns?

Thousands of french womens get married each year and take their husband s name
    :-)).
She will then be Mme ???? , married instead of single. She might have to notify
this change to different administrations, banks, ... Other than that, nothing
complicated I think of.

Good Luck. Best wishes
Patrick ( French) married in USA to Crystal (USA) under K1 visa.