Philip

Any one know if a marriage has to be consummated prior to obtaining a K3 visa? My
plan is to get married at a JP in the states, then she returns to her country, I file
the K3 forms and we have the church wedding 5 months later in her country(while the
papers process) after which we consummate the marriage. I wonder if her visa would be
denied if by some stroke of luck the K3 were approved and she were interviewed prior
to the marriage 5 months later.

Thanks, Phil

Rete

Interesting question. There are some countries where the INS approved doctor who does the medical for the visas will perform pelvic examinations on the female seekers of visas. Now if that doctor found the hymen intact wonder if he would write that on the medical form.

Honestly though, I don't know enough about the K-3 so I'm not even sure if you have to prove a relationship.

Rita

Ameriscot

I'd imagine that you'd have to meet the same requirements as for a spousal visa, given that the K3 is for spouses. I'm sure it says in the rules that you have to be fully eligible for CR1/IR1.

IIRC, my MIL tried to urge my DH to hold off the consummation until we got to the US so that we could have a proper RC wedding - she didn't seem to think the Church of Scotland was quite good enough for God, although it clearly met the requirements of the US Consulate. Anyway, he did look into it just to humour her, and found that there was a requirement for the marriage to be properly consummated. That was in 1986, so things could have changed, but I shouldn't have thought so.

Jb

Philip wrote:
    >
    > Any one know if a marriage has to be consummated prior to obtaining a K3 visa? My
    > plan is to get married at a JP in the states, then she

I've been reading this group for a long time and I don't recall this sort of question
on any form. Nor have I heard that INS has asked. If you're married, you're married.
What happens after that is none of their business, in my opinion, provided you later
prove the marriage is still 'valid' when conditions are removed (assuming it is
necessary for you to do this).

My answer is "No"

Bruce

You cannot apply for a K3 without first filling a I-130 I-130 Instuctions:
3. For whom may you not file?
D. A husband or wife, if you were not both physically present at the marriage
ceremony, and the marriage was not consummated.

The only legal way to do what you want is to marry, file AOS and advance Parol, then
return to her country for a church wedding. (ALOT CHEAPER TOO!)

Philip wrote:

    > Any one know if a marriage has to be consummated prior to obtaining a K3 visa? My
    > plan is to get married at a JP in the states, then she returns to her country, I
    > file the K3 forms and we have the church wedding 5 months later in her
    > country(while the papers process) after which we consummate the marriage. I wonder
    > if her visa would be denied if by some stroke of luck the K3 were approved and she
    > were interviewed prior to the marriage 5 months later.
    >
    > Thanks, Phil

Steve Hubbard

K-3 info page is avail on the INS web site...you need to submit a photo copy of your
1st NOA of the I-130 with the K-3 paperwork...difficult to do with the plans that you
have...best of luck on this most difficult journey...

Betastar

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:26:49 GMT, Bruce <[email protected]> spake:

    >You cannot apply for a K3 without first filling a I-130 I-130 Instuctions:
    >3. For whom may you not file?
    >D. A husband or wife, if you were not both physically present at the marriage
    > ceremony, and the marriage was not consummated.
    >

What if you were both physically present but the marriage was not consummated?

Bruce

Betastar wrote:

    > On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:26:49 GMT, Bruce <[email protected]> spake:
    >
    > >You cannot apply for a K3 without first filling a I-130 I-130 Instuctions:
    > >3. For whom may you not file?
    > >D. A husband or wife, if you were not both physically present at the marriage
    > > ceremony, and the marriage was not consummated.
    > >
    >
    > What if you were both physically present but the marriage was not consummated?

Well the way I read it is:
D.
1. A husband or wife, if you were not both physically present at the
marriage ceremony
2. the marriage was not consummated.

Andy Platt

Usually the actual law is a good place to resolve this and this case is no exception.
INA Act 101, Sec. 101. [8 U.S.C. 1101] (a) (35) states:

"The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband
by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not
physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been
consummated. "

(http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/lpBin/lpext...b-21/slb-456?f
=templates&fn=document-frame.htm#slb-act101)

So, if you were both present it need not have been consummated.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination. "Bruce"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Betastar wrote:
    >
    > > On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:26:49 GMT, Bruce <[email protected]> spake:
    > >
    > > >You cannot apply for a K3 without first filling a I-130 I-130 Instuctions:
    > > >3. For whom may you not file?
    > > >D. A husband or wife, if you were not both physically present at the marriage
    > > > ceremony, and the marriage was not consummated.
    > > >
    > >
    > > What if you were both physically present but the marriage was not consummated?
    >
    > Well the way I read it is:
    > D.
    > 1. A husband or wife, if you were not both physically present at the marriage
    > ceremony
    > 2. the marriage was not consummated.

Ameriscot

I don't see how you can infer this, Andy. Because one condition is true, doesn't mean the converse isn't.

Mrs Blackross

I agree with Andy..the way I read it is they both have to be physically present at
the marriage ceremony itself, OR have consumated the marriage afterwards..

Rita mentioned about some countries where the doctor does a pelvic exam, etc...but
even a really skilled doctor can't tell for certain whether a woman is a virgin or
not, because some women still have a hymen after sex, and some women's hymen are
broken as children from activities such as horsebackriding...I would think that the
presence or absence of a hymen would not be conclusive as to whether or not a
marriage was consumated.

and as I think was mentioned before, INS doesn't really WANT to know about your sex
life...they want to see the certified copy of the marriage certificate, pictures of
the couple, wedding albums, joint bank accounts, insurance, joint mortgage, etc...I
have never heard of them asking, and even if they did, they would have no conclusive
proof anyways.

"Ameriscot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Andy Platt wrote:
    > > "The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or
    > > husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties
    > > thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the
    > > marriage shall have been consummated. " So, if you were both present it need
    > > not have been consummated. Andy.
    >
    >
    >
    > I don't see how you can infer this, Andy. Because one condition is true, doesn't
    > mean the converse isn't.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > http://www.ameriscot.com/i130
    >
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Andy Platt

Ameriscot's reply didn't make it to my news provider so I'll respond here to
it. Break down the sentence:

    > > > "The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or
    > > > husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties
    > > > thereto are not physically present in the
presence
    > > > of each other"

So far, so good. We are only talking about cases where the parties were not
physically present together at the ceremony. No other cases. Nothing about
consummation needing to take place.

Now, the law goes on to provide a way of these proxy marriages being concluded to the
satisfaction of the INS:

    > > > of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated. "

This provides a way out of the proxy marriage problem but it doesn't introduce a
requirement that any other marriage has to be consummated to be considered valid by
the INS. In fact there are situations where the marriage *could never* be consummated
and for these to be rejected would be blatent discrimination.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination. "Mrs Blackross"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I agree with Andy..the way I read it is they both have to be physically present at
    > the marriage ceremony itself, OR have consumated the marriage afterwards..
    >
    > Rita mentioned about some countries where the doctor does a pelvic exam, etc...but
    > even a really skilled doctor can't tell for certain whether a woman is a virgin or
    > not, because some women still have a hymen after sex, and some women's hymen are
    > broken as children from activities such as horsebackriding...I would think that the
    > presence or absence of a hymen would not be conclusive as to whether or not a
    > marriage was consumated.
    >
    > and as I think was mentioned before, INS doesn't really WANT to know about your sex
    > life...they want to see the certified copy of the marriage certificate, pictures of
    > the couple, wedding albums, joint bank accounts, insurance, joint mortgage, etc...I
    > have never heard of them asking, and
even
    > if they did, they would have no conclusive proof anyways.
    >
    > "Ameriscot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Andy Platt wrote:
    > > > "The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or
    > > > husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties
    > > > thereto are not physically present in the
presence
    > > > of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated. " So, if you
    > > > were both present it need not have been consummated. Andy.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I don't see how you can infer this, Andy. Because one condition is true, doesn't
    > > mean the converse isn't.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > http://www.ameriscot.com/i130
    > >
    > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Ameriscot

One thing's for sure: consummation is not an integral part of a legal marriage - it's part of canon law, but not civil law.

It is possible, though, that the INS has a stricter definition of marriage to prevent obvious marriage fraud, but it's not a routine question for them to ask. It's probably not an issue for the couple in question here, as they simply seek to delay consummation, not avoid it altogether.

Now were Gérard Depardieu and Andie Macdowell questioned about their activities as part of the INS investigation in Green Card?

Philip

Just a clarification:

We plan on both being physically present at the JP (she possesses a
B1/B2 visa) marriage. Then she returns. Then I file I-130. After 2-3 weeks forcasted
wait, the I-797 1st NOA stating INS has received your petition arrives, I file the
I-129f with it making it a K3. Does this change any of the poster's answer's who
thought it wouldn't be possible?

Thanks, Phil

Philip

Bruce <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > You cannot apply for a K3 without first filling a I-130 I-130 Instuctions:
    > 3. For whom may you not file?
    > D. A husband or wife, if you were not both physically present at the marriage
    > ceremony, and the marriage was not consummated.
    >
    > The only legal way to do what you want is to marry, file AOS and advance Parol,
    > then return to her country for a church wedding. (ALOT CHEAPER TOO!)
    >
    > Philip wrote:
    >
    > > Any one know if a marriage has to be consummated prior to obtaining a K3 visa? My
    > > plan is to get married at a JP in the states, then she returns to her country, I
    > > file the K3 forms and we have the church wedding 5 months later in her
    > > country(while the papers process) after which we consummate the marriage. I
    > > wonder if her visa would be denied if by some stroke of luck the K3 were approved
    > > and she were interviewed prior to the marriage 5 months later.
    > >
    > > Thanks, Phil

Would this issue come up before the consulate interview?

Thanks, Phil