Doc

Jeff, I hesitate to specify the country because some govt bureaucrat may lurk here
and since my case might be easily identifiable i want to keep my options open. I have
considered the angle you mention, but all papers have been filed and everything done
except she hasnt changed her name yet. I doubt that would constitute no marriage but
probably only a lawyer in that country could say for sure. If i apply for the fiance
waiver it might slide through, maybe they will not know we are married. But, if they
do know or if its not granted it will be a bigger problem as they may consider it
fraud. If the fiance waiver is denied and i subsequently file for i-130 spousal visa,
they will see that the marriage date was before the fiance waiver application and she
may be barred for good then. I dont know whether to chance it or not. All of the
suggestions for a lawyer are obvious but i will not be in a financial position to be
paying legal fees (which in this case could be significant) until late jan or feb.
And even an attorney cant tell me for sure if a spousal visa will be granted after
waiting another year. I have talked to a couple already and all they say is for me to
pay them and wait and see. Not sure i need to pay someone to roll the dice but of
course i will if i can.

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Doc

There is no more to the story than i have told, except i have left out the exact
location. Section 212 of the immigration and nationality act lists various reasons
for exclusion, one of which is engaging in prostitution or profiting from it.
Doesnt matter how long or how many times. I spoke with an attorney today whose firm
claims thousands of visas with zero denials. He said they have done many from
russia where the girls had engaged in such behavior and still no denials. I dont
know if these things were known at those interviews as in my case. And i dont know
how much is a sales job because he wants a fee of $1800 for help with a spousal
visa. And of course after that 1800 bucks plus fees plus another year apart there
are still no guarantees. I have found out that she would be denied a k3 visa. I am
very very angry.

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ladies
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ladies
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visa.
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[usenetquote2]> >Subject: K1 fiance visa denied and maybe worse From: "doc" [email protected][/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >Date: 12/8/01 7:31 AM Central Standard Time Message-id:[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> ><[email protected]>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >Just had k1 fiance visa denied (from an asian country) because of moral turpitude,[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >they discovered she had previously worked in a bar for a few months. The consular[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >clerk who made the denial said we should apply for a waiver, and said a letter is[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >required detailing how the denial creates hardship for me. The next day i talked[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >to a gentlemen who seemed quite knowledgeable about the process and he suggested[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >that the biggest[/usenetquote2]
hardship
[usenetquote2]> >and most compelling reason for a waiver would be if we were already[/usenetquote2]
married.
[usenetquote2]> >At the time this seemed logical so we got married there in her country. On the[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >airplane back to the states i started thinking about the letter i would write for[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >the waiver and thats when it hit me. I got a sinking[/usenetquote2]
feeling
[usenetquote2]> >they are not going to give us a fiance visa under any circumstances now since she[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >is no longer a fiance and a little research on the net seems to have confirmed[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >this feeling. So i have numerous questions here. First, what are/were the chances[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >of getting a waiver in this type of case? Second, if we go ahead and apply[/usenetquote2]
for
[usenetquote2]> >the waiver will they know we are already married if we dont tell them?[/usenetquote2]
You
[usenetquote2]> >have to fill out a form and pay a fee at the embassy for marriage, but[/usenetquote2]
the
[usenetquote2]> >waiver is done by the ins in a different building so i dont know. Third,[/usenetquote2]
if
[usenetquote2]> >we apply for the waiver and they do know we already married, would this constitute[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >fraud to the extent that she would be barred from further applications for five[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >years? I have been told that technically the[/usenetquote2]
marriage
[usenetquote2]> >isnt official until she goes back to her province and changes her name, which she[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >hasnt done yet. This sounds dubious to me but hey, i want to believe. Fourth, if[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >we forget the waiver and start over with a k3 spousal visa how will the previous[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >fiance visa refusal affect this? Geeez what a mess. At the moment my inclination[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >is to try for the[/usenetquote2]
waiver,
[usenetquote2]> >of course i dont want to commit fraud but at the same time our intentions were/are[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >good. And i do not believe it is right for a government that[/usenetquote2]
extols
[usenetquote2]> >freedom to be telling me who i can or cannot marry and creating these massive[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >delays and roadblocks, we have already waited 8 months. This lady[/usenetquote2]
is
[usenetquote2]> >very special to me and i would appreciate any advice or suggestions.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]

Fs

Have my own problems, but just curious, if what's been susested fails what about
imigrating to a third country that has the visa waiver program and then to the US. I


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[usenetquote2]>> I just ca't understand why your wife was denied for visa. let me remind everybody[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> here. I seen too many filipinas married to service men. This[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> work in bars in Subic bay and Clark airbase. The US consulate knew this[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> are "bar girls". So far I haven't heard any one from them been denied for[/usenetquote2]
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[usenetquote2]>> I have the feelings that there are more into this story that your fiancee didn't[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> tell the truth to the US consulate. I think you need a lawyer.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >Subject: K1 fiance visa denied and maybe worse From: "doc" [email protected][/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >Date: 12/8/01 7:31 AM Central Standard Time Message-id:[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> ><[email protected]>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >Just had k1 fiance visa denied (from an asian country) because of moral[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >turpitude, they discovered she had previously worked in a bar for a few months.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >The consular clerk who made the denial said we should apply for a waiver, and[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >said a letter is required detailing how the denial creates hardship for me. The[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >next day i talked to a gentlemen who seemed quite knowledgeable about the process[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >and he suggested that the biggest[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >and most compelling reason for a waiver would be if we were already[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >At the time this seemed logical so we got married there in her country. On the[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >airplane back to the states i started thinking about the letter i would write for[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >the waiver and thats when it hit me. I got a sinking[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >they are not going to give us a fiance visa under any circumstances now since she[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >is no longer a fiance and a little research on the net seems to have confirmed[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >this feeling. So i have numerous questions here. First, what are/were the chances[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >of getting a waiver in this type of case? Second, if we go ahead and apply[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >the waiver will they know we are already married if we dont tell them?[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >have to fill out a form and pay a fee at the embassy for marriage, but[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >waiver is done by the ins in a different building so i dont know. Third,[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >we apply for the waiver and they do know we already married, would this[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >constitute fraud to the extent that she would be barred from further applications[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >for five years? I have been told that technically the[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >isnt official until she goes back to her province and changes her name, which she[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >hasnt done yet. This sounds dubious to me but hey, i want to believe. Fourth, if[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >we forget the waiver and start over with a k3 spousal visa how will the previous[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >fiance visa refusal affect this? Geeez what a mess. At the moment my inclination[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >is to try for the[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >of course i dont want to commit fraud but at the same time our intentions[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >were/are good. And i do not believe it is right for a government that[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >freedom to be telling me who i can or cannot marry and creating these massive[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >delays and roadblocks, we have already waited 8 months. This lady[/usenetquote2]
    >
[usenetquote2]>> >very special to me and i would appreciate any advice or suggestions.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
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Andy Platt

<frank34266 (fs)> wrote in message

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you just mean go to another country that has
the visa waiver, that's not how it works. It's based on your citizenship, not the
country of departure. In any case the very rules that would prevent someone getting a
visa prevent you from using the visa waiver.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

jeffreyhy

Doc,

Good luck.

Regards, JEff

Harry

Jeff,
o/t...I'm here...don't worry, we were as careful as we were thorough. Besides, I thought we were talking about the merit (or lack) of submitting proof of relationship with the original I-129F petition. While I'm not 100% sure you do need it, there are at least indications that it is needed/helpful, so by having sent it, we have our bases covered. That was my basic point. Making sure and having your bases covered is a hell of a lot different from submitting incriminating evidence as part of your visa application! Also, there is a distinction between being thorough and erring on the side of caution, and the idea of indiscriminantly throwing everything including the kitchen sink at them!
Anyway, we are getting nowhere with this...
All the best,

-Harry

jeffreyhy

And the Visa Waiver Program only allows one to visit the USA, it does not allow them to immigrate.

Regards, JEff

jeffreyhy

Harry,

The context in which we were talking was the I-129f. My point, which I may not have been as clear about as I could have, was don't provide any more information than is necessary or you run the risk of providing something that you shouldn't have. This concept applies in numerous situations and goes well beyond dealings with the government. It's know universally by the acronym KISS.

Regards, JEff

Dutch In Atlanta

[usenetquote2]>> Yes but what nobody seems to address is how many. How many of the hedged on[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> fiancée visa, let the spousal + waiver through happen? 100%? 80%? And what happens[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> if they don't let you through? Now your stuck with a wife in another country (and[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> no the thought of leaving the US to live with her and breaking up my family is not[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> an option for me).[/usenetquote2]
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There is no question that this needs to be discussed with an attorney. An
acquaintance of mine could not get his fiancee approved in the Philippines
because she used to work in a bar near Subic Bay.

He married her, she got pregnant and he filed the I-130 Spousal. Her
pregnancy brought on more roadblocks because of her previous employ. Not only
did they have to show proof that he was there at the right time for
conception, they had to do paternity testing on the baby after it was born
(Yes, things took that long and longer!) to prove that he was the father.
Even then, the Administrative Review dragged on until the baby was well over
a year old before they were finally able to come to the USA; and it still
took some assistance by his Congress Critter to get them here at all.

In some countries, like the Philippines, the Moral Turpentine [sic]
exclusion is taken very seriously, contrary to what was reported earlier in
this thread.

DUTCH

Michael Voight

doc wrote:
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It is important to note that simply being apart from your loved one is NOT considered
hardship for the purpose of a hardship waiver. If that was all it took there everyone
would get one.

The next day i talked to a gentlemen who seemed quite
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Interesting view. How did he think that getting married made it more of a hardship?

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You are correct. If you are actually considered married by the government of the
country you were married in. You wouldn't be married, for instance, if the marriage
wasn't filed properly.

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Waiver for what??? You have said nothing that signifies the hardship required for
the waiver.

Second, if we go ahead and apply for
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That would be fraud... And I would NOT recommend it.

You
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No, fraud that might get her a LIFETIME ban.

I have been told that technically the marriage
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Were you told this by the same person that said getting married qualified it as a
hardship????????

Fourth, if we forget the waiver and start over with a k3 spousal
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Yes. It will have an effect. The K-3 interview is done at the same place.

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I suggest you stop relying on "experts" for advice that cause only more problems.
File the I-130. When you get the NOA for the I-130, file the I-129F for the K-3. Then
if it gets refused, apply for the waiver. I think you should have tried the waiver
after getting the K-1 denial, but that is 20/20 hindsight. Getting married did NOT
speed things up.

Depending on the country, you might be able to file the I-130 there and have her in
the US in a few weeks, if they look passed her bar history in that interview. Then
she would get a CR-1 right away and not need a K-3.

Michael

Michael Voight

doc wrote:
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Isn't there mention of employment history in the application process???? Did you
leave that out??

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You want to attempt lying to them again??

Two, Start over with a k3/spousal visa and
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Yes. This time APPLY for the waiver. You seem to be trying to avoid the most logical
way of getting the issue resolved.

Three, i can quit
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Great. If it is that easy for you, then why bother with INS or us?

I am from texas where literally millions of illegals are
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"no problem"?? Until they get stopped by the police for one problem or another.

with everyone and their brother
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I really hate using another group of immigrants as scapegoats for your problem with
the government enforcing the law at the consulate your wife dealt with....

Michael Voight

Marilou920 wrote:
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Well, at a minimum, he admitted they hid her place of employment from the paperwork

Michael Voight

Andy Platt wrote:
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[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Have my own problems, but just curious, if what's been susested fails what[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > about imigrating to a third country that has the visa waiver program and then[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > to the US. I[/usenetquote2]
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But.. they would be interviewed in the country they lived in, NOT the country of
citizenship. This consulate in this other country might be more lenient.

Michael Voight

Alvena Ferreira wrote:

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But, do they consider being away from your fiance/wife a "hardship" in their sense of
what a hardship is? After all, if they consider this to be a hardship, why would they
even require you to apply for a waiver for it??

Fs

in message
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Sorry I didn't expalain well. My question was , is there a country where citizenship
may be obtained quickly and is a visa -waiver country. That way , she may visit while
she files for imagration from that country. Longer to finish but at least they are
together. After all, life is only temperary. Right ?

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