K1 fiance visa denied and maybe worse
Dec 8th 2001, 12:31 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just had k1 fiance visa denied (from an asian country) because of moral turpitude,
they discovered she had previously worked in a bar for a few months. The consular
clerk who made the denial said we should apply for a waiver, and said a letter is
required detailing how the denial creates hardship for me. The next day i talked to a
gentlemen who seemed quite knowledgeable about the process and he suggested that the
biggest hardship and most compelling reason for a waiver would be if we were already
married. At the time this seemed logical so we got married there in her country. On
the airplane back to the states i started thinking about the letter i would write for
the waiver and thats when it hit me. I got a sinking feeling they are not going to
give us a fiance visa under any circumstances now since she is no longer a fiance and
a little research on the net seems to have confirmed this feeling. So i have numerous
questions here. First, what are/were the chances of getting a waiver in this type of
case? Second, if we go ahead and apply for the waiver will they know we are already
married if we dont tell them? You have to fill out a form and pay a fee at the
embassy for marriage, but the waiver is done by the ins in a different building so i
dont know. Third, if we apply for the waiver and they do know we already married,
would this constitute fraud to the extent that she would be barred from further
applications for five years? I have been told that technically the marriage isnt
official until she goes back to her province and changes her name, which she hasnt
done yet. This sounds dubious to me but hey, i want to believe. Fourth, if we forget
the waiver and start over with a k3 spousal visa how will the previous fiance visa
refusal affect this? Geeez what a mess. At the moment my inclination is to try for
the waiver, of course i dont want to commit fraud but at the same time our intentions
were/are good. And i do not believe it is right for a government that extols freedom
to be telling me who i can or cannot marry and creating these massive delays and
roadblocks, we have already waited 8 months. This lady is very special to me and i
would appreciate any advice or suggestions.
they discovered she had previously worked in a bar for a few months. The consular
clerk who made the denial said we should apply for a waiver, and said a letter is
required detailing how the denial creates hardship for me. The next day i talked to a
gentlemen who seemed quite knowledgeable about the process and he suggested that the
biggest hardship and most compelling reason for a waiver would be if we were already
married. At the time this seemed logical so we got married there in her country. On
the airplane back to the states i started thinking about the letter i would write for
the waiver and thats when it hit me. I got a sinking feeling they are not going to
give us a fiance visa under any circumstances now since she is no longer a fiance and
a little research on the net seems to have confirmed this feeling. So i have numerous
questions here. First, what are/were the chances of getting a waiver in this type of
case? Second, if we go ahead and apply for the waiver will they know we are already
married if we dont tell them? You have to fill out a form and pay a fee at the
embassy for marriage, but the waiver is done by the ins in a different building so i
dont know. Third, if we apply for the waiver and they do know we already married,
would this constitute fraud to the extent that she would be barred from further
applications for five years? I have been told that technically the marriage isnt
official until she goes back to her province and changes her name, which she hasnt
done yet. This sounds dubious to me but hey, i want to believe. Fourth, if we forget
the waiver and start over with a k3 spousal visa how will the previous fiance visa
refusal affect this? Geeez what a mess. At the moment my inclination is to try for
the waiver, of course i dont want to commit fraud but at the same time our intentions
were/are good. And i do not believe it is right for a government that extols freedom
to be telling me who i can or cannot marry and creating these massive delays and
roadblocks, we have already waited 8 months. This lady is very special to me and i
would appreciate any advice or suggestions.
Dec 8th 2001, 1:06 am
#2
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,473
Sorry to hear of your problems. I recall that someone else on the NG a few years had a problem similar to yours where his fiancee worked in one of those bars and her visa was denied. There was also a man called Kingweb <?> who had a problem with the US Consulate in the Philipphines because his photo which was submitted as proof of his relationship had two women in it and not just his fiancee.
You are correct, you no longer qualify for the K-1 because you are married and now have to file for I-130. A waiver will be needed for that as well when it is denied.
Continuing through with the K-1 is fraud and might well come back to bite you in the ass if it is discovered. Get yourself a very very good immigration attorney asap.
Rita
You are correct, you no longer qualify for the K-1 because you are married and now have to file for I-130. A waiver will be needed for that as well when it is denied.
Continuing through with the K-1 is fraud and might well come back to bite you in the ass if it is discovered. Get yourself a very very good immigration attorney asap.
Rita
Dec 8th 2001, 2:43 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
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That was KingWked00 who posted such classics as... From: KingWked00
([email protected]) Subject: Re: fuff: I can suck my own pennis! Newsgroups:
>
Date: 1999/11/15 Jonathan, Actually i did have the original name Kingwicked but that
was 6 aol accounts ago. And whats this suck my own penis crap? that was horneyboy not
I with that special talent. If i could do that i wouldnt be getting married
KW
(onigiri again) He finally gave up the INS petition and became an apprentice in a
circus with a goal to train his body into a certain contortion and reach that nirvana
he was seeking.
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That was KingWked00 who posted such classics as... From: KingWked00
([email protected]) Subject: Re: fuff: I can suck my own pennis! Newsgroups:
>
Date: 1999/11/15 Jonathan, Actually i did have the original name Kingwicked but that
was 6 aol accounts ago. And whats this suck my own penis crap? that was horneyboy not
I with that special talent. If i could do that i wouldnt be getting married
KW(onigiri again) He finally gave up the INS petition and became an apprentice in a
circus with a goal to train his body into a certain contortion and reach that nirvana
he was seeking.
Dec 8th 2001, 5:04 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
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In certain countries "working in a bar" has become an accepted euphemism for
prostitution.
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In certain countries "working in a bar" has become an accepted euphemism for
prostitution.
Dec 8th 2001, 12:54 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
The actual wording is "engaged in or profited from prostitution". What i am really
wondering about is how this will affect an application for one of the new k3 visas.
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[usenetquote2]> > In certain countries "working in a bar" has become an accepted euphemism for[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > prostitution.[/usenetquote2]
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wondering about is how this will affect an application for one of the new k3 visas.
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[usenetquote2]> > In certain countries "working in a bar" has become an accepted euphemism for[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > prostitution.[/usenetquote2]
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Dec 9th 2001, 12:01 am
#7
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I also know of another fellow who was denied the K1 because his wife worked
in one of the Philippine bars near Subic Bay. As a result of the K1 denial,
he married her there; and filed the I-130. He still had a very difficult time
getting her to the USA.
They take the moral turpitude business very seriously in the Philippines.
DUTCH
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I also know of another fellow who was denied the K1 because his wife worked
in one of the Philippine bars near Subic Bay. As a result of the K1 denial,
he married her there; and filed the I-130. He still had a very difficult time
getting her to the USA.
They take the moral turpitude business very seriously in the Philippines.
DUTCH
Dec 9th 2001, 2:31 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
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You will end up at the same road block via the I-130 followed by yet another I-129F
petition. Your statement that "they discovered she had previously worked in a bar for
a few months...." is puzzling. Did you mean that they contended that she had done so
without either you or she volunteering this information ? Your struggle to get your
wife immigrate to USA is going to be difficult - from what we have read posted in
this ng. You will still need a waiver and should have good legal counsel. Your letter
ought to refer to the consulate's allegation rather than acceptance of what they
allege to have happened in the working of your wife. Victims of traffiking in women
have been punished by society and governments since the time of Magdelane. Our own
government has talked big on this subject
http://secretary.state.gov/www/picw/...ng/usgclin.htm but continues to live in
the middle ages and punish victims when it comes to its practices. There is a lot of
difference between a wealthy bhoomiputhra college coed going on a "compensated date"
with a businessman and a poor woman forced into tolerating the scum by middlemen who
operate or work in bars.
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for
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You will end up at the same road block via the I-130 followed by yet another I-129F
petition. Your statement that "they discovered she had previously worked in a bar for
a few months...." is puzzling. Did you mean that they contended that she had done so
without either you or she volunteering this information ? Your struggle to get your
wife immigrate to USA is going to be difficult - from what we have read posted in
this ng. You will still need a waiver and should have good legal counsel. Your letter
ought to refer to the consulate's allegation rather than acceptance of what they
allege to have happened in the working of your wife. Victims of traffiking in women
have been punished by society and governments since the time of Magdelane. Our own
government has talked big on this subject
http://secretary.state.gov/www/picw/...ng/usgclin.htm but continues to live in
the middle ages and punish victims when it comes to its practices. There is a lot of
difference between a wealthy bhoomiputhra college coed going on a "compensated date"
with a businessman and a poor woman forced into tolerating the scum by middlemen who
operate or work in bars.
Dec 9th 2001, 3:23 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Onigiri wrote:
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Yes, that's true. However, bear in mind, the consulates get information that is
"unofficial" about some of the visa applicants that US citizens are not privy to.
Sometimes they know things that we do not know. Whilst arguably, that may or may not
be reliable info, OTOH chances are that they *know* their country pretty well and
have what they think to be true information.
The moral-ethical standards of other countries also vary (anywhere from a little to a
lot) from the puritanical standards of the US.
Consider the report of a fiance who was being petitioned for a fiance visa, continued
to *date* other persons in the home country, and saw nothing wrong with doing so. The
fiance eventually got the visa, came to the US, married the US petitioner and AFAIK
lived happily ever after.
I wonder how the US citizen fiance might feel about such activity, were it known? I
wonder how common such activity is? I wonder how many of such "dates" are for some
type of compensation? Just trying to make the point that foreign fiances'
ethics/morals/financial needs may be very different from US standards and there ARE
things that we as citizens are not aware of, nor would we approve of them if we were
privy to that information. It's like comparing apples to oranges, basically. However,
the consulates supposedly judge in terms of US moral/ethical standards.
Alvena
-----------------------
Doc Steen Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm
=========================================
I am not a lawyer and this is not immigration advice. This is my personal opinion,
posted for the purpose of discussion only. Locate an immigration attorney in your
area at: http://www.aila.org
=========================================
>
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>
Yes, that's true. However, bear in mind, the consulates get information that is
"unofficial" about some of the visa applicants that US citizens are not privy to.
Sometimes they know things that we do not know. Whilst arguably, that may or may not
be reliable info, OTOH chances are that they *know* their country pretty well and
have what they think to be true information.
The moral-ethical standards of other countries also vary (anywhere from a little to a
lot) from the puritanical standards of the US.
Consider the report of a fiance who was being petitioned for a fiance visa, continued
to *date* other persons in the home country, and saw nothing wrong with doing so. The
fiance eventually got the visa, came to the US, married the US petitioner and AFAIK
lived happily ever after.
I wonder how the US citizen fiance might feel about such activity, were it known? I
wonder how common such activity is? I wonder how many of such "dates" are for some
type of compensation? Just trying to make the point that foreign fiances'
ethics/morals/financial needs may be very different from US standards and there ARE
things that we as citizens are not aware of, nor would we approve of them if we were
privy to that information. It's like comparing apples to oranges, basically. However,
the consulates supposedly judge in terms of US moral/ethical standards.
Alvena
-----------------------
Doc Steen Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm
=========================================
I am not a lawyer and this is not immigration advice. This is my personal opinion,
posted for the purpose of discussion only. Locate an immigration attorney in your
area at: http://www.aila.org
=========================================
Dec 9th 2001, 3:35 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, we didnt exactly volunteer the info. We had printed out all of our email
correspondence and, since we had talked about this a few times in them, we culled out
the ones in which it was mentioned. Unfortunately we missed one and of course thats
one that they read. Faced with it in black and white she admitted to it. The lady
doing the interview kept saying that this was no problem and it would only mean a 3
or 4 day delay, my fiance came out of the interview thinking everything was ok.
Obviously i am very interested in having a conversation of my own with this woman. In
any event, i cannot seem to get any info whatsoever about the success rate of these
waivers. Seems i have three options. One, try for the fiance waiver and see what
happens. Two, Start over with a k3/spousal visa and assume that we will ultimately
need a waiver for that. Three, i can quit fooling around with these screwheads now
and take matters into my own hands. I am quite familiar with paper trip methods and
getting her here surreptitiously would not be too difficult for me. Of course this is
not what i want to do and it does present other problems, but if these waivers are an
exercise in futility the back door may end up being my only alternative anyway. I am
from texas where literally millions of illegals are living and working everyday no
problem, with everyone and their brother looking the other way. Now the govt is
talking amnesty for them but i cant get my own wife into the country. And if i was
donald trump or george bush jr there isnt much doubt she would be with me now. I am
very very angry.
>
[usenetquote2]> > The actual wording is "engaged in or profited from prostitution". What i am[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > really wondering about is how this will affect an application[/usenetquote2]
>
[usenetquote2]> > one of the new k3 visas.[/usenetquote2]
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another
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wife.
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governments
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its
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correspondence and, since we had talked about this a few times in them, we culled out
the ones in which it was mentioned. Unfortunately we missed one and of course thats
one that they read. Faced with it in black and white she admitted to it. The lady
doing the interview kept saying that this was no problem and it would only mean a 3
or 4 day delay, my fiance came out of the interview thinking everything was ok.
Obviously i am very interested in having a conversation of my own with this woman. In
any event, i cannot seem to get any info whatsoever about the success rate of these
waivers. Seems i have three options. One, try for the fiance waiver and see what
happens. Two, Start over with a k3/spousal visa and assume that we will ultimately
need a waiver for that. Three, i can quit fooling around with these screwheads now
and take matters into my own hands. I am quite familiar with paper trip methods and
getting her here surreptitiously would not be too difficult for me. Of course this is
not what i want to do and it does present other problems, but if these waivers are an
exercise in futility the back door may end up being my only alternative anyway. I am
from texas where literally millions of illegals are living and working everyday no
problem, with everyone and their brother looking the other way. Now the govt is
talking amnesty for them but i cant get my own wife into the country. And if i was
donald trump or george bush jr there isnt much doubt she would be with me now. I am
very very angry.
>
[usenetquote2]> > The actual wording is "engaged in or profited from prostitution". What i am[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > really wondering about is how this will affect an application[/usenetquote2]
>
[usenetquote2]> > one of the new k3 visas.[/usenetquote2]
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another
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wife.
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governments
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its
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Dec 9th 2001, 4:12 am
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
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I did love that Usbek lass who had petitions for visas from suitors in the US
and UK at the same time. She got the ticket paid for by the UK citizen and used
it to fly to Seattle and marry the US citizen. Now, here is an entrepreneur who
could make something of herself when given the opportunities of a free market !!
This sort of portfolio planning is very common in cultures where marriages are
arranged- except for the skipping of the immigration petition part, this applies
to the USA as well. A larger list of potential candidates is pared down by
Analysts ( family and friends !!) and a shorter list is examined by the
individual. The capital is spread over the shorter list on a weighted average
basis: that is, more promising ones not only get greater body contact but also
get to take home photos with greater body cotact and greater number of bodies
from the family for the I-129F-evidence of relationship item19.
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I think that poster "doc" was shocked at how much active "consumer protection" was
put into effect by the consulate on his behalf. What he failed to understand is the
fact that our consulates are selective in who they let migrate to the USA, the
connection of this potential immigrant to an American Citizen as a spouse is only
secondary. All he can now do is to collect his allies ( congressional reps, his legal
counsel etc..) and provide a strong statement through his letter in a waiver
petition........or migrate to his wife's country ....or join the circus.
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I did love that Usbek lass who had petitions for visas from suitors in the US
and UK at the same time. She got the ticket paid for by the UK citizen and used
it to fly to Seattle and marry the US citizen. Now, here is an entrepreneur who
could make something of herself when given the opportunities of a free market !!
This sort of portfolio planning is very common in cultures where marriages are
arranged- except for the skipping of the immigration petition part, this applies
to the USA as well. A larger list of potential candidates is pared down by
Analysts ( family and friends !!) and a shorter list is examined by the
individual. The capital is spread over the shorter list on a weighted average
basis: that is, more promising ones not only get greater body contact but also
get to take home photos with greater body cotact and greater number of bodies
from the family for the I-129F-evidence of relationship item19.
>
>
>
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I think that poster "doc" was shocked at how much active "consumer protection" was
put into effect by the consulate on his behalf. What he failed to understand is the
fact that our consulates are selective in who they let migrate to the USA, the
connection of this potential immigrant to an American Citizen as a spouse is only
secondary. All he can now do is to collect his allies ( congressional reps, his legal
counsel etc..) and provide a strong statement through his letter in a waiver
petition........or migrate to his wife's country ....or join the circus.
>
>
Dec 9th 2001, 4:15 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
I am truely sorry to hear what happened. Best wishes to you.
Dec 9th 2001, 7:25 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
doc wrote:
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Understandably so. I think the illegals in the US issue is one that gripes a lot of
butts in this group. Alvena
-----------------------
Doc Steen Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm
=========================================
I am not a lawyer and this is not immigration advice. This is my personal opinion,
posted for the purpose of discussion only. Locate an immigration attorney in your
area at: http://www.aila.org
=========================================
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Understandably so. I think the illegals in the US issue is one that gripes a lot of
butts in this group. Alvena
-----------------------
Doc Steen Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm
=========================================
I am not a lawyer and this is not immigration advice. This is my personal opinion,
posted for the purpose of discussion only. Locate an immigration attorney in your
area at: http://www.aila.org
=========================================
Dec 9th 2001, 12:13 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
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In our case and others filing waivers, they will approve an I-130, (ours was and
others too) but of course a visa cannot be issued without an approved waiver
application. And you can't do the waiver without having the I-130. Very time
consuming.
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In our case and others filing waivers, they will approve an I-130, (ours was and
others too) but of course a visa cannot be issued without an approved waiver
application. And you can't do the waiver without having the I-130. Very time
consuming.
Dec 10th 2001, 2:25 am
#15
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Doc,
What country are we talking about here? Are you sure you're legally married? Something you said in an earlier post, about the woman having to go back to her home district to fill out papers and change her name, indicates that you might not be married yet. A wedding, or marriage ceremony, does not constitute a legal marriage in many countries, including the USA. The fat lady does not sing until the paperwork is submitted to the government.
Stop your 'wife' from submitting her paperwork until you figure out what your true marriage situation is. Then, in the event that you are not married (from the government's point of view) get a knowledgeable lawyer to help your fiancee file that waver.
Slightly OT - Harry from the UK, are you out there? All you folks who believe that the more paperwork you submit to prove your relationship the better off you are - here we have one more example of how saying too much can cook your goose. Doc and fiancee knew there was damning information in their e-mail, so they tried and failed to clean it up and now they're in trouble. Better to have not submitted the knowg tainted e-mails at all. One does not have to submit every conceivable piece of evidence they can lay their hands on to the embassy for a visa application, or to the INS for and I-129f petition.m The less you say, the better off you are.
Regards, JEff
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doc
[B]Well, we didnt exactly volunteer the info. We had printed out all of our email
correspondence and, since we had talked about this a few times in them, we culled out
the ones in which it was mentioned. Unfortunately we missed one and of course thats
one that they read. Faced with it in black and white she admitted to it. The lady
doing the interview kept saying that this was no problem and it would only mean a 3
or 4 day delay, my fiance came out of the interview thinking everything was ok.
Obviously i am very interested in having a conversation of my own with this woman. In
any event, i cannot seem to get any info whatsoever about the success rate of these
waivers. Seems i have three options. One, try for the fiance waiver and see what
happens. Two, Start over with a k3/spousal visa and assume that we will ultimately
need a waiver for that. Three, i can quit fooling around with these screwheads now
and take matters into my own hands. I am quite familiar with paper trip methods and
getting her here surreptitiously would not be too difficult for me. Of course this is
not what i want to do and it does present other problems, but if these waivers are an
exercise in futility the back door may end up being my only alternative anyway. I am
from texas where literally millions of illegals are living and working everyday no
problem, with everyone and their brother looking the other way. Now the govt is
talking amnesty for them but i cant get my own wife into the country. And if i was
donald trump or george bush jr there isnt much doubt she would be with me now. I am
very very angry.
What country are we talking about here? Are you sure you're legally married? Something you said in an earlier post, about the woman having to go back to her home district to fill out papers and change her name, indicates that you might not be married yet. A wedding, or marriage ceremony, does not constitute a legal marriage in many countries, including the USA. The fat lady does not sing until the paperwork is submitted to the government.
Stop your 'wife' from submitting her paperwork until you figure out what your true marriage situation is. Then, in the event that you are not married (from the government's point of view) get a knowledgeable lawyer to help your fiancee file that waver.
Slightly OT - Harry from the UK, are you out there? All you folks who believe that the more paperwork you submit to prove your relationship the better off you are - here we have one more example of how saying too much can cook your goose. Doc and fiancee knew there was damning information in their e-mail, so they tried and failed to clean it up and now they're in trouble. Better to have not submitted the knowg tainted e-mails at all. One does not have to submit every conceivable piece of evidence they can lay their hands on to the embassy for a visa application, or to the INS for and I-129f petition.m The less you say, the better off you are.
Regards, JEff
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doc
[B]Well, we didnt exactly volunteer the info. We had printed out all of our email
correspondence and, since we had talked about this a few times in them, we culled out
the ones in which it was mentioned. Unfortunately we missed one and of course thats
one that they read. Faced with it in black and white she admitted to it. The lady
doing the interview kept saying that this was no problem and it would only mean a 3
or 4 day delay, my fiance came out of the interview thinking everything was ok.
Obviously i am very interested in having a conversation of my own with this woman. In
any event, i cannot seem to get any info whatsoever about the success rate of these
waivers. Seems i have three options. One, try for the fiance waiver and see what
happens. Two, Start over with a k3/spousal visa and assume that we will ultimately
need a waiver for that. Three, i can quit fooling around with these screwheads now
and take matters into my own hands. I am quite familiar with paper trip methods and
getting her here surreptitiously would not be too difficult for me. Of course this is
not what i want to do and it does present other problems, but if these waivers are an
exercise in futility the back door may end up being my only alternative anyway. I am
from texas where literally millions of illegals are living and working everyday no
problem, with everyone and their brother looking the other way. Now the govt is
talking amnesty for them but i cant get my own wife into the country. And if i was
donald trump or george bush jr there isnt much doubt she would be with me now. I am
very very angry.
