Just to be clear, what was "it" that was only supposed to take 5 days?

Packet 3 comes with a cover letter containing the beneficiary's consular case number. The consular case number should be included when the beneficiary replies to the packet, as this helps the consulate line up the reply with the Consular file. This is all very basic "immigration 101" stuff.

Whose idea was it to get the packet 3 forms and send them to the Consulate before they had the file from the NVC? Am I correct in assuming this means the packet 3 reply was sent in without the Consulate Case Number? Was sending this in something your attorney called you up and recommended you do, or was this your bright idea that you came up with and introduced to your attorney? Its already pretty much been established that your attorney does not have much experience with immigration matters, so I wonder if he even knew much about the consular processing… in other words, was it really "his" idea to do this, or was it your idea (that you got from the net somewhere) and you talked him into making this mistake.

Just curious (since it has also been shown through your posting that you seem to like to put the blame on others whenever possible, and you have often jumped to incorrect conclusions and made unwarranted assumptions many times now about the process in general).

And regardless of your answers to the above, congratulations on getting the interview date.

Matt as much as you seem to think that I put the idea in my lawyers head I didn't. I even told him that it could be held up at NVC so I didn't think I should do that. He said and I quote "Just send a copy of your approval letter with all the other documents that are necessary."

Additionally my bright idea was to use a lawyer in the first place and I gave him all the necessary documents that were needed. How I got an RFE from both Vermont and Missouri for the I130 and I129F for the same form in no way could be my fault. Did both service centers lose the same exact form. Very unlikely. Did my lawyer forget to send in or send in late the forms as I suspect. Very likely.

So I do think I have a grip here. I did the right thing by going to a lawyer and so far this particular lawyer who by the way is a very nice guy but in my opinion has done a bad job for me so far. Is it my fault for picking a bad or experienced lawyer? I would say yes but how was I supposed to know this before hand. You even checked him out for me and said he was a member of AILA.

Yes I do blame him for the delay earlier in the process and the past month because my gut feeling said that I shouldn't send anything in until NVC sends the file out and assigns a case number because the Embassy will have no idea what to do with our Packet 3. This is exactly what happened.

Do I still think it's not fair that people with RFE's are still waiting. Yes and I do blame the centers for poor management because when Sid and many others are still waiting with an RFE answers from November 19th while they are processing new cases from December 24th there is something wrong with this picture. Last I checked November 19th came before December 24th by over a month.

I forgot to answer the "it". On the Packet 3 instructions it says that once the Embassy receives your UPS package and if the forms are in order they will send a letter in 5 business days stating the date of your appointment. If the forms are wrong or missing something they will send everything back in 5 business days with a checklist of what is wrong or missing.

Isn't this an original idea check to see if anything is missing as soon as you receive the file and not after 90 days. The BCIS system is flawed and we all know this. Whether it's the lack of funding which leads to them being understaffed I think simple modifications would help both the centers and the people filing the petitions.

Who ever pulls the check out of the file and assigns a case number should also check the basics such as any forms missing and is everything signed. Go ahead and cash the check but issue an RFE early in the process for something that in my opinion is a minor mistake like a missing form. Yes I know if we used an experienced lawyer this probably would not happen but I used a lawyer (whether he is experiences or not ) and I have gotten the short end of the stick.

Either way I don't really care now as my wife will soon be back and this will all be a memory.

Dont get too concerned about all the legal crap we both have had to tolerate ... bottom line is you have your interview date.. and its time to change all those emotions to elation.. and move on my friend.. just keep us posted..

Thanks Sid I keep checking every day hoping you have something good to post. Good luck.

Actually I specifically asked the question I did because I didn't know for sure if this was his idea or your idea. That's why I asked. Thanks for answering.

But I'm still curious; what is it that you thought was only going to take 5 days?

Well, perhaps he was simply talking about trying to get the Consulate to open up a provisional file and dispatch packet 3 to the beneficiary "before" the file ever arrives at the Consulate. "I" do that myself with my cases by sending an attorney certified copy of the approval notice along with a complete attorney certified copy set of the entire I-129f submission to the Consulate, with a cover letter asking them to open a provisional file and dispatch packet 3 to the beneficiary.

In the language you quote above, I don't see anything were he told you to get some packet 3 forms, have her fill them out and mail them to the Consulate without the Consular case number.

Sounds like you indeed might have picked an attorney with not enough experience to do the job right. Just so others will know (your paragraph above does not make it clear), if "I" checked his name out for you (in the AILA directory) to see if he was listed as an AILA member, that would have been "after" you were already working with him. I don't want anybody to think I referred you to him as that is simply not the case.

Just being an AILA member does not mean he has experience with fiancée cases. You are supposed to ask him ahead of time, when deciding whether or not you want him to be your representative, whether or not he has done this sort of work before and what his experiences have been. In addition to asking him about his experiences, have you ever seen him posting information on the net that would help you "know" that he does fiancée cases and knows enough to be helpful to fiancée visa petitioners and their cases?

I do what I can to get the Consulate to open up a provisional file and dispatch packet 3 before the file arrives to them from the NVC. They send the packets directly to the beneficiary, and the beneficiary should put her consular case number on the reply so the consul will know what case the packet belongs to. So it sounds like even though you knew better, you or your attorney got some blank packet 3 forms somewhere and sent them in "despite" the fact that you thought this was a mistake.

Ok, so they did not know what to do with the packet 3 materials that they received. Did they eventually send her packet 3 materials directly from the Consulate? If so, she could/should have replied "again".

I avoid all of this crap by telling my clients that the beneficiary will be receiving the packet from the Consulate with forms and instruction, that she should wait for it to arrive as some Consulates use their own forms and have their own quirks, that she'll need to put her Consular Case Number on her packet 3 reply (therefore, not to try to jump the gun and sending them packet 3 forms prematurely), that she should follow the Consulate's specific instructions and to call me (the petitioner or beneficiary) once she receives packet 3 if she has "any" questions about how to answer any particular question on a form or how to reply.

There are logical ways to try to shave off time here and there during the process. Sending the Consulate forms in way too early is usually not one of them.

This is what I mean by some of your postings showing you don't understand the system and how things work. You keep comparing apples and oranges and dwelling about how things "should" be as opposed to simply dealing with how things "are".

Cases that received an RFE have received initial processing and they did not get approved like some other cases do during their initial processing. It would not make much sense for an officer to stop working on all other I-129f cases for 90 days while the petitioner supplied the RFE materials. If someone submits a shoddy submission, everybody else that filed later should not be punished by having to wait until the shoddy work is corrected.

Yes, and I asked about that again before reading your post that I'm replying to here. But after reading this post, I'm still confused about what you are talking about.

So lets clear this up. Did she receive the packet 3 from the Consulate, "or" did you and she find the packet 3 forms somewhere on the net and fill them out and send them to the Consulate "before" her packet 3 (which included her consulate case number) arrived to her? Your paragraph above does not make that clear.

Now you are talking about the USCIS. What does this have to do with the packet 3 problem that you've been talking about today?

USCIS officers are in short supply and cost a hell of a lot more in salary and benefits than the SCOT Contract Workers that do the front-end grunt work on the cases. I understand you have not toured the Service Centers, but what you are suggesting is that officers evaluate the cases right at arrival. That would be fine and I'd like to see that too. Perhaps if Congress gave them the funding to hire the number of officers needed to achieve this, than an officer could be evaluating a case around the same time as the check is taken and cashed (which happens in the very first stage when the case arrives). Contract workers (who are the people who pull the checks at presorting, and the contract workers at data entry… this is where the computer assigns the case number and prints it on a notice for you) are not trained, nor have the authority to evaluate your case and issue RFE's. That is the job of an officer, and due to the volume of the work waiting it turn, it takes a while for a case to make it through the mail room, presorting, sorting, data entry, its turn in the file room (all of these things are done by Contract workers) and "then" given to an officer.

Again, I focus on the system we have, not on how I wish it were (but its OK to wish for things and come up with new ideas as that is how improvements are conceived).

There you go. That is a good healthy attitude!

Amen Sid - couldn't have said it better (-:

Hi Mathew

I don't want to be rude or anything.. but let Tmushen be happy, he has been waiting for a long time, as for you Tmushen as far as Sid said don't worry about the "legal crap".. You have your interview and that's what it matters
Keep us updated!!

This is what I mean by some of your postings showing you don't understand the system and how things work. You keep comparing apples and oranges and dwelling about how things "should" be as opposed to simply dealing with how things "are".

Cases that received an RFE have received initial processing and they did not get approved like some other cases do during their initial processing. It would not make much sense for an officer to stop working on all other I-129f cases for 90 days while the petitioner supplied the RFE materials. If someone submits a shoddy submission, everybody else that filed later should not be punished by having to wait until the shoddy work is corrected. [/QUOTE]

Your right maybe I don't understand the system because I go by what simple logic dictates.

For example I went to the DMV the other day and waited 4 hours in line to register my two vehicles. I filled out the forms to the best of my ability. After waiting four hours I get my number called and guess what I put the wrong odemeter reading because I wasn't sure if I should put the reading when I bought the cars in Florida or when I brought them into the state of New York. (By the way I don't think the clerk really knew the real answer either and just guessed what I should put down). So what happened next?

I needed to search through my documents to find this reading. I do keep very specific detailed files on everything I do in my life as I have 3 file cabinets with 4 draws each just in my house but that still doesn't stop me from making a mistake or some clerk from making a mistake. She asked me to step aside while I looked for the reading so she could help the next person. Therefore she didn't stop working and I also didn't have to wait another four hours. I found the reading as she was finishing up with this next person. Guess what she took me next and finished up my registration. I got my plates for the vehicles and went home happy even though I waited four hours.

Now what would have happened if she said sorry buddy but because you made a beginners mistake and filled the form out wrong even though I am not really sure if your wrong or if I am wrong you now need to wait another 4 hours. You see at that point steam would be coming from my ears but I would politely ask to speak to a manager (which you can't do with the BCIS) and ask to have my registration completed without having to wait another four hours. Any normal manager would say your correct sir let's complete the registration.

So your right I guess I don't understand a system that makes no sense.

I had another thought or observation if you will, about your paragraph above.

In my other reply, I mentioned how the Contract workers are not assigned the job of evaluating your case and issuing RFE (that is an officer's duty). This is a true statement, however it is also true that sometimes the contract workers (doing a "front end task") will "reject" a submission right at the earliest stage and send the whole thing back to the petitioner.

This might happen if a check is not there, it was sent to the wrong service center, there might be a number of reasons this could happen. But when they "reject" the submission, they have not taken your check and cashed it, and they are not issuing a receipt notice (as the case is not in the system, but rather rejected from the system and has not made it to square 1 yet).

But when it comes to evaluating someone's evidence and whether or not the case has been adequately documented (RFE), that is the duty of a trained officer, not some contract worker with no training and who pushes around a hand truck to the file room and back.

We never did receive Packet 3 but the Embassy emailed me and told us we can just download it from the website which we did. The Embassy is using the same case number that NVC assigned. On Packet 3 which is right on their website is says that you will receive a response from the Embassy within 5 days of them receiving your forms that are required in Packet 3. You will either get an appointment date or a letter stating what is missing in 5 days.

Moving on to the BCIS I was only stating that missing forms should be identified earlier in process like they do at this particalar Embassy. I never said contarct workers should approve the cases but they do have brains and can see if items/forms are missing. Your right the lack of funding is what is all comes down too.

Any way I very happy that my wife is coming back soon. This whole process has just made us stronger. Additionally the process doesn't stop here so at least we know what lies ahead. I wouldn't change a thing that we had to go through (except getting approved faster - LOL) because we at least now know the struggle that many others had to go through when trying to come to America. The experience (whether good or bad) has been a lesson that we will never forget.

The rest of tehboard plus you have taught me enough to at least know what is going on. I might disagree with what is going on and what should be going on but that's just my opinion.

Good analogy. Same thing happens at the post office (or at least at the post office located below my office). Someone waits in line, makes it to a postal employee, is given a form to take to the counter to fill out, than comes back to that postal clerk once the form is filled out (without having to do the whole line over again).

Guess what, that's what they do at the Service Centers with RFE cases!!!!!

When your RFE materials arrive, a contract worker goes and gets your file that is waiting on the special RFE shelf and is taken back to an officer. Its not like the file has to go through the mail room, presorting, sorting, data entry, or wait to make it to the front of the fiancee shelf again.

Perhaps you are putting stock into the nonsense language, "now that your case has received initial processing, it will only take another 4 years to finish". Come ON!!! Are you "Still" buying into projected processing times!!! You have "got" to be kidding!

Up until lately, most RFE's were finished within a week or so of arrival. There might be factors lately that have slowed that part down, but that does not mean the RFE case went back to square 1 (because it didn't). You might not like how long you have to wait for it to be finished, but don’t assume your case went back to square 1 just because it takes time to finish (swift or slower now).

Got to go home, survivor will be staring soon :-).

You are right we did get caught up in a time where it seems that RFE's are taking longer than usual to process. I would also agree that if our RFE did only take a week or so to process I would have nothing to complain about. Go ahead get home and enjoy survivor. Good talking to you as I appreciate some good back and forth posts.