If I overstayed a Visa Waiver, can I marry?
Jun 22nd 2004, 3:31 pm
#16
Banned
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,933
Originally posted by ray6
Just to add a little.. What we don't see or hear about is the ones that do have problems ..Do they exist ???
Just to add a little.. What we don't see or hear about is the ones that do have problems ..Do they exist ???
Jun 22nd 2004, 3:37 pm
#17
round 2, ding-ding.
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: London to America
Posts: 352
if a tree falls down in the woods and no one is around to hear it- does it make a sound?
Jun 22nd 2004, 3:41 pm
#18
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Originally posted by tortoise
if a tree falls down in the woods and no one is around to hear it- does it make a sound?
if a tree falls down in the woods and no one is around to hear it- does it make a sound?
Jun 22nd 2004, 3:41 pm
#19
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Originally posted by Ranjini
I think the bolder amongst us, always have Mr. Folinksy. But only because we did not, at the time, understand the underlying issues. Which is why people like you are needed on this forum To tell us the "other side of the story" as it were.
We see and hear about people marrying and succesfully adjusting status on the WVP/tourist visa with no problem...
I think the bolder amongst us, always have Mr. Folinksy. But only because we did not, at the time, understand the underlying issues. Which is why people like you are needed on this forum
To tell us the "other side of the story" as it were. We see and hear about people marrying and succesfully adjusting status on the WVP/tourist visa with no problem...
I have told the "other side" of the story. But while Tortise of technically correct, the OP is "exploring options" and that could be interpreted to mean that he is considering coming in on a VWT and overstaying -- and THAT is a contemplation of breaking the law. Just because a lot of people get away with it doens't change the fact that its illegal.
Many people drive 85 miles per hour on I-5 between Los Angeles and Northern California and don't get ticketed. But the CHP is out there and you could get ticketed.
Jun 22nd 2004, 3:47 pm
#20
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,408
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Hi:
I have told the "other side" of the story. But while Tortise of technically correct, the OP is "exploring options" and that could be interpreted to mean that he is considering coming in on a VWT and overstaying -- and THAT is a contemplation of breaking the law. Just because a lot of people get away with it doens't change the fact that its illegal.
Many people drive 85 miles per hour on I-5 between Los Angeles and Northern California and don't get ticketed. But the CHP is out there and you could get ticketed.
Hi:
I have told the "other side" of the story. But while Tortise of technically correct, the OP is "exploring options" and that could be interpreted to mean that he is considering coming in on a VWT and overstaying -- and THAT is a contemplation of breaking the law. Just because a lot of people get away with it doens't change the fact that its illegal.
Many people drive 85 miles per hour on I-5 between Los Angeles and Northern California and don't get ticketed. But the CHP is out there and you could get ticketed.
Ahh but that is your interpretation of his post:
"If I overstayed a Visa Waiver and am still in US can I marry a US citizen for love and not convienence at a later date?
Any info on my options at this stage would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance"
How do you know he is not already here in the US. He does not specify where is he posting from ... his own country or the US.
You wish to post on the side of caution, assuming he is not in the US; while Tortise is posting on the belief that he is already here in the US. While he might well be incorrect in his assumption, posting that is it permissible to marry and remain to adjust status from the VWP is not a suggestion to commit a crime. Neither of those acts are criminal. The criminal act is the preconceived intent to do so when entering at the POE. And nowhere in anyone's post did I see this mentioned.
Rete
Jun 22nd 2004, 3:47 pm
#21
round 2, ding-ding.
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: London to America
Posts: 352
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Hi:
I have told the "other side" of the story. But while Tortise of technically correct, the OP is "exploring options" and that could be interpreted to mean that he is considering coming in on a VWT and overstaying -- and THAT is a contemplation of breaking the law. Just because a lot of people get away with it doens't change the fact that its illegal.
Many people drive 85 miles per hour on I-5 between Los Angeles and Northern California and don't get ticketed. But the CHP is out there and you could get ticketed.
Hi:
I have told the "other side" of the story. But while Tortise of technically correct, the OP is "exploring options" and that could be interpreted to mean that he is considering coming in on a VWT and overstaying -- and THAT is a contemplation of breaking the law. Just because a lot of people get away with it doens't change the fact that its illegal.
Many people drive 85 miles per hour on I-5 between Los Angeles and Northern California and don't get ticketed. But the CHP is out there and you could get ticketed.
i would always advise doing the correct thing.
Jun 22nd 2004, 3:53 pm
#22
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Originally posted by Rete
Ahh but that is your interpretation of his post:
"If I overstayed a Visa Waiver and am still in US can I marry a US citizen for love and not convienence at a later date?
Any info on my options at this stage would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance"
How do you know he is not already here in the US. He does not specify where is he posting from ... his own country or the US.
You wish to post on the side of caution, assuming he is not in the US; while Tortise is posting on the belief that he is already here in the US. While he might well be incorrect in his assumption, posting that is it permissible to marry and remain to adjust status from the VWP is not a suggestion to commit a crime. Neither of those acts are criminal. The criminal act is the preconceived intent to do so when entering at the POE. And nowhere in anyone's post did I see this mentioned.
Rete
Ahh but that is your interpretation of his post:
"If I overstayed a Visa Waiver and am still in US can I marry a US citizen for love and not convienence at a later date?
Any info on my options at this stage would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance"
How do you know he is not already here in the US. He does not specify where is he posting from ... his own country or the US.
You wish to post on the side of caution, assuming he is not in the US; while Tortise is posting on the belief that he is already here in the US. While he might well be incorrect in his assumption, posting that is it permissible to marry and remain to adjust status from the VWP is not a suggestion to commit a crime. Neither of those acts are criminal. The criminal act is the preconceived intent to do so when entering at the POE. And nowhere in anyone's post did I see this mentioned.
Rete
Look up section 274(a)(1)(A)(iv) & (v) of the Immigration & Nationality Act. [8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv) & (v)].
The "harboring" provisions were greatly strengthened by the 1996 legislation by removal of the "for gain" language.
Jun 22nd 2004, 3:59 pm
#23
round 2, ding-ding.
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: London to America
Posts: 352
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Hi Rete:
Look up section 274(a)(1)(A)(iv) & (v) of the Immigration & Nationality Act. [8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv) & (v)].
The "harboring" provisions were greatly strengthened by the 1996 legislation by removal of the "for gain" language.
Hi Rete:
Look up section 274(a)(1)(A)(iv) & (v) of the Immigration & Nationality Act. [8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv) & (v)].
The "harboring" provisions were greatly strengthened by the 1996 legislation by removal of the "for gain" language.
Jun 22nd 2004, 4:02 pm
#24
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Originally posted by tortoise
what does all that mean?
what does all that mean?
(v) 1/ (I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
It would appear to be mainly aimed at Mules
Jun 22nd 2004, 4:11 pm
#25
round 2, ding-ding.
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: London to America
Posts: 352
well, i do hope that my post was not seen as encouraging someone to do anything illegal. i was under the impression that the person was over here and married already. i was letting them know that the next step would be to get down to the immigration office and pick up the forms.
i would never encourage anyone to knowingly enter a country and marry on a visa waiver. i would always suggest (as is the law) to enter the country on a k1 visa.
i hope that's cleared things up.
i would never encourage anyone to knowingly enter a country and marry on a visa waiver. i would always suggest (as is the law) to enter the country on a k1 visa.
i hope that's cleared things up.
Jun 22nd 2004, 4:31 pm
#26
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Originally posted by ray6
(iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law, shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B); or
(v) 1/ (I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
It would appear to be mainly aimed at Mules
(iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law, shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B); or
(v) 1/ (I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
It would appear to be mainly aimed at Mules
"Mules"??? I think you are referring to either "coyotes" or "snakeheads." However, the language is NOT limited to that. I had a case a few years back invovling the civil provisions prohibiting smuggling and part of my argument compared it to the criminal provisions. [No need to go into the details -- it was a quite complicated case which I lost. :-( ]. But I do recall a court opinion regarding a conviction of a woman who went for a ride with her new boyfriend in his motorhome. She had no prior knowledge that he intended to pick up a group of "pollos" who had just crossed the border and hide them in the motorhome. The ONLY thing she did wrong was that she lied to the Border Patrol agents when they later got stopped.
Conviction sustained in the court of appeals.
Jun 22nd 2004, 5:48 pm
#27
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
"Mules"??? I think you are referring to either "coyotes" or "snakeheads."
"Mules"??? I think you are referring to either "coyotes" or "snakeheads."
Jun 24th 2004, 7:41 pm
#28
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 96
"edit: if you haven't already married and are thinking about doing so, then it is strongly advised for you to return to your own country and obtain a k1 visa."
Just a quick note Tortoise... this addition to your memoranda should read if you have not already overstayed by more than 180 days and have not already married. As I am sure you are aware the law is more favorable to a person who has overstayed, does not leave the country, then marries, and adjusts status.
If a person has overstayed and then leaves the country. The overstay will not be forgiven and the 3/10 year bar will go into effect and an I-601 will become necessary.
Perhaps one might construe this as "encouraging someone to break the law" but since that is done by the law itself, the blame cannot be placed on anyone who was not involved in the process of writing the law.
Just a quick note Tortoise... this addition to your memoranda should read if you have not already overstayed by more than 180 days and have not already married. As I am sure you are aware the law is more favorable to a person who has overstayed, does not leave the country, then marries, and adjusts status.
If a person has overstayed and then leaves the country. The overstay will not be forgiven and the 3/10 year bar will go into effect and an I-601 will become necessary.
Perhaps one might construe this as "encouraging someone to break the law" but since that is done by the law itself, the blame cannot be placed on anyone who was not involved in the process of writing the law.
Jun 24th 2004, 8:35 pm
#29
round 2, ding-ding.
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: London to America
Posts: 352
i've actually given up trying to give advice, lol. i can see that it doesn't go down too well with the 'legals' on this board.
make one small error (i.e. thinking the person asking the question is already married and basing ones answer on this idea) and you'll get letters and numbers thrown at you.
nah, sorry, it's not worth it. i've been feeling crap enough as it is lately with my own claim (no ssn, wrong ead), without someone trying to make me feel even worse.
make one small error (i.e. thinking the person asking the question is already married and basing ones answer on this idea) and you'll get letters and numbers thrown at you.
nah, sorry, it's not worth it. i've been feeling crap enough as it is lately with my own claim (no ssn, wrong ead), without someone trying to make me feel even worse.
Jun 25th 2004, 5:45 am
#30
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 96
I can understand that tortoise, but you should never give up... (although feel free to take a break from giving advice... I have definitely needed them before...) think how many people that you make happy and that you help.
Honestly, I think that the OP was already here as an overstay and was contemplating marriage to someone. If that is the case, then your advice was excellent! And even if the OP never returns, you never know who else might read this!
So, thanks for what you do... and I wish you the very best of luck with your own situation. It sounds like a royal mess, I would be beating my head against the wall by now!
Honestly, I think that the OP was already here as an overstay and was contemplating marriage to someone. If that is the case, then your advice was excellent! And even if the OP never returns, you never know who else might read this!
So, thanks for what you do... and I wish you the very best of luck with your own situation. It sounds like a royal mess, I would be beating my head against the wall by now!