I.N.S.ULT
Jun 4th 2002, 3:20 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I.N.S.ULT
John & Deb wrote:
> Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>
>> No the real question is how would hiring more people solve that problem. The
>> answer is it wouldn't - because the problem is not simply one of manpower to
>> resources thus throwing more money or men at it will not solve the problem. The
>> problem is process and the ability of government to get away with such things!
>
> Of course the problem is process. That goes without saying. It's wrong that two
> Gov't agencies investigate the same thing and neither knows what the other has
> uncovered. It's wrong that people slip in and out of this country without so much
> as a thought. Yes it is indeed the various processes that allow this to happen.
> Looking it square in the eye and seeing it for what it is does not make it go away.
> What makes it go away is for someone to do something. The system needs to be
> revamped. Money needs to be invested in order to finance bigger and better security
> systems and databases.
You just got finish agreeing with me that the problem is the process, said a few
sentences then reverted back to throwing money at the problem and expecting that
action to fix it. No. It's not just bigger and better security systems and databases
it's a mindset change and a people/dedication change (probably along with some more
money and yes better security systems and databases but it primarily a mindset
change, IMHO).
> The childish hoarding of resources and information must be abandoned.
Yes but I think we need to first understand the reasons why the hoarding and childish
behavior exists.
> INS should know what IRS knows what FBI knows what CIA knows what the Cop on the
> street knows.....BUT it must be handled with a delicate balance because there are
> too many ways to infringe on peoples rights. And there is another stumbling block
> to deal with. We, the people, create our own Gov't inefficiency because we don't
> trust Big Brother. And rightfully so.
I don't think it's really a matter of people's rights nor big brother. That was part
of my point.
> BTW Overworked and frustrated people make mistakes. They take sick days in excess
> they daydream and get sloppy (professionally).
Again, my point was that it is not too few people/not enough resources - rather it's
about an antiquated mindset that causes horrible inefficiencies and a piss poor
attitude where mistakes are tolerated.
> Things start getting pushed to the back burner and sometimes not just unimportant
> stuff. Again it's a matter of balance. How many people do you need? how hard do you
> work them? When will they start overloading.
No it's a matter of stupid rules requiring things to be filed in triplicate, only
black ink (as if blue ink is somehow unreadable), rejecting perfectly good
applications because "None" was used where "N/A" was supposed to be used, etc that
cause the inefficiencies and piss poor attitude with people blindly following stupid
procedures, unable to question their efficiency or propose a better way, getting no
recognition for doing a better job and no punishment for doing a poor job, creating a
socialist attitude of "Who cares? I just want my paycheck".
> Oh well I've rambled enough. Thanks for the exercise. I probably didn't make a
> whole lot of sense but it was fun
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title>
</head> <body> John & Deb wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">Andrew DeFaria wrote:<br> <blockquote
type="cite">No the real question is how would hiring more people solve that problem.
The answer is it wouldn't - because the problem is not simply one of manpower to
resources thus throwing more money or men at it will not solve the problem. The
problem is process and the ability of government to get away with such things!<br>
</blockquote> <!TEST->Of course the problem is process. That goes without saying.
It's wrong that two Gov't agencies investigate the same thing and neither knows what
the other has uncovered. It's wrong that people slip in and out of<br> this country
without so much as a thought. Yes it is indeed the various processes that allow this
to happen. Looking it square in the eye and seeing it for what it is does not make it
go away. What makes it go away is for someone to do something. The system needs to be
revamped. Money needs to be invested in order to finance bigger and better security
systems and databases. </blockquote> You just got finish agreeing with me that the
problem is the process, said a few sentences then reverted back to throwing money at
the problem and expecting that action to fix it. No. It's not just bigger and better
security systems and databases it's a mindset change and a people/dedication change
(probably along with some more money and yes better security systems and databases
but it primarily a mindset change, IMHO).<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">The childish hoarding of resources and
information must be abandoned. </blockquote> Yes but I think we need to first
understand the reasons why the hoarding and childish behavior exists.<br> <blockquote
type="cite" cite="[email protected]">INS should know what IRS knows
what FBI knows what CIA knows what the Cop on the street knows.....BUT it must be
handled with a delicate balance because there are too many ways to infringe on
peoples rights. And there is another stumbling block to deal with. We, the people,
create our own Gov't inefficiency because we don't trust Big Brother. And rightfully
so.</blockquote> I don't think it's really a matter of people's rights nor big
brother. That was part of my point.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]"> BTW Overworked and frustrated people make
mistakes. They take sick days in excess they daydream and get sloppy
(professionally). </blockquote> Again, my point was that it is <b>not</b> too few
people/not enough resources
- rather it's about an antiquated mindset that causes horrible inefficiencies and a
piss poor attitude where mistakes are tolerated.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">Things start getting pushed to the back
burner and sometimes not just unimportant stuff. Again it's a matter of balance.
How many people do you need? how hard do you work them? When will they start
overloading.</blockquote> No it's a matter of stupid rules requiring things to be
filed in triplicate, only black ink (as if blue ink is somehow unreadable),
rejecting perfectly good applications because "None" was used where "N/A" was
supposed to be used, etc that cause the inefficiencies and piss poor attitude with
people blindly following stupid procedures, unable to question their efficiency or
propose a better way, getting no recognition for doing a better job and no
punishment for doing a poor job, creating a socialist attitude of "Who cares? I
just want my paycheck".<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">Oh well I've rambled enough. Thanks for
the exercise. I probably didn't make a whole lot of sense but it was fun<br>
</blockquote> <br> </body> </html
> Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>
>> No the real question is how would hiring more people solve that problem. The
>> answer is it wouldn't - because the problem is not simply one of manpower to
>> resources thus throwing more money or men at it will not solve the problem. The
>> problem is process and the ability of government to get away with such things!
>
> Of course the problem is process. That goes without saying. It's wrong that two
> Gov't agencies investigate the same thing and neither knows what the other has
> uncovered. It's wrong that people slip in and out of this country without so much
> as a thought. Yes it is indeed the various processes that allow this to happen.
> Looking it square in the eye and seeing it for what it is does not make it go away.
> What makes it go away is for someone to do something. The system needs to be
> revamped. Money needs to be invested in order to finance bigger and better security
> systems and databases.
You just got finish agreeing with me that the problem is the process, said a few
sentences then reverted back to throwing money at the problem and expecting that
action to fix it. No. It's not just bigger and better security systems and databases
it's a mindset change and a people/dedication change (probably along with some more
money and yes better security systems and databases but it primarily a mindset
change, IMHO).
> The childish hoarding of resources and information must be abandoned.
Yes but I think we need to first understand the reasons why the hoarding and childish
behavior exists.
> INS should know what IRS knows what FBI knows what CIA knows what the Cop on the
> street knows.....BUT it must be handled with a delicate balance because there are
> too many ways to infringe on peoples rights. And there is another stumbling block
> to deal with. We, the people, create our own Gov't inefficiency because we don't
> trust Big Brother. And rightfully so.
I don't think it's really a matter of people's rights nor big brother. That was part
of my point.
> BTW Overworked and frustrated people make mistakes. They take sick days in excess
> they daydream and get sloppy (professionally).
Again, my point was that it is not too few people/not enough resources - rather it's
about an antiquated mindset that causes horrible inefficiencies and a piss poor
attitude where mistakes are tolerated.
> Things start getting pushed to the back burner and sometimes not just unimportant
> stuff. Again it's a matter of balance. How many people do you need? how hard do you
> work them? When will they start overloading.
No it's a matter of stupid rules requiring things to be filed in triplicate, only
black ink (as if blue ink is somehow unreadable), rejecting perfectly good
applications because "None" was used where "N/A" was supposed to be used, etc that
cause the inefficiencies and piss poor attitude with people blindly following stupid
procedures, unable to question their efficiency or propose a better way, getting no
recognition for doing a better job and no punishment for doing a poor job, creating a
socialist attitude of "Who cares? I just want my paycheck".
> Oh well I've rambled enough. Thanks for the exercise. I probably didn't make a
> whole lot of sense but it was fun
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title>
</head> <body> John & Deb wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">Andrew DeFaria wrote:<br> <blockquote
type="cite">No the real question is how would hiring more people solve that problem.
The answer is it wouldn't - because the problem is not simply one of manpower to
resources thus throwing more money or men at it will not solve the problem. The
problem is process and the ability of government to get away with such things!<br>
</blockquote> <!TEST->Of course the problem is process. That goes without saying.
It's wrong that two Gov't agencies investigate the same thing and neither knows what
the other has uncovered. It's wrong that people slip in and out of<br> this country
without so much as a thought. Yes it is indeed the various processes that allow this
to happen. Looking it square in the eye and seeing it for what it is does not make it
go away. What makes it go away is for someone to do something. The system needs to be
revamped. Money needs to be invested in order to finance bigger and better security
systems and databases. </blockquote> You just got finish agreeing with me that the
problem is the process, said a few sentences then reverted back to throwing money at
the problem and expecting that action to fix it. No. It's not just bigger and better
security systems and databases it's a mindset change and a people/dedication change
(probably along with some more money and yes better security systems and databases
but it primarily a mindset change, IMHO).<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">The childish hoarding of resources and
information must be abandoned. </blockquote> Yes but I think we need to first
understand the reasons why the hoarding and childish behavior exists.<br> <blockquote
type="cite" cite="[email protected]">INS should know what IRS knows
what FBI knows what CIA knows what the Cop on the street knows.....BUT it must be
handled with a delicate balance because there are too many ways to infringe on
peoples rights. And there is another stumbling block to deal with. We, the people,
create our own Gov't inefficiency because we don't trust Big Brother. And rightfully
so.</blockquote> I don't think it's really a matter of people's rights nor big
brother. That was part of my point.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]"> BTW Overworked and frustrated people make
mistakes. They take sick days in excess they daydream and get sloppy
(professionally). </blockquote> Again, my point was that it is <b>not</b> too few
people/not enough resources
- rather it's about an antiquated mindset that causes horrible inefficiencies and a
piss poor attitude where mistakes are tolerated.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">Things start getting pushed to the back
burner and sometimes not just unimportant stuff. Again it's a matter of balance.
How many people do you need? how hard do you work them? When will they start
overloading.</blockquote> No it's a matter of stupid rules requiring things to be
filed in triplicate, only black ink (as if blue ink is somehow unreadable),
rejecting perfectly good applications because "None" was used where "N/A" was
supposed to be used, etc that cause the inefficiencies and piss poor attitude with
people blindly following stupid procedures, unable to question their efficiency or
propose a better way, getting no recognition for doing a better job and no
punishment for doing a poor job, creating a socialist attitude of "Who cares? I
just want my paycheck".<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">Oh well I've rambled enough. Thanks for
the exercise. I probably didn't make a whole lot of sense but it was fun
<br></blockquote> <br> </body> </html
Jun 4th 2002, 4:20 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I.N.S.ULT
"S.M." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Interesting article, with the INS having no-one on duty Memorial day weekend.
>
> http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49166.htm
INS is one of the Federal agency which overwhelmed with responsibilites from
garurding US borders from illegal immigration to prevent foreignors working illegally
in the US. In addition, they are also responsible for Natuaralization.
I have seen alot of agruments going on in the subject about why the local authorities
in New York arrested my four fellow Pakistanis.
The problem is that no agency other than INS can detain/check/clear anyone for
immigration violations. I think that is why those people were let go. I assure you
that they were not terrorist, they probably poor guys working in construction all day
long, probably paid thousands of dollars to gain entery in the US so they can support
thier families back home. INS would have found immigration violation on them and they
probably would have been deported back to Pakistan.
On one hand, we expect to have freedom and on the other hand, we are blaming the
government about failing to prevent the 9/11 terrorist attacks. There is so much any
government agency could do to prevent anything, keeping in mind that providing all
the constitutional rights. Whenever US government agency tries to do something to
effect your privacy, we get upset and complain to our Congressmen which turn around
and ask government agency to back off.
They only way, future attacks would be 100% prevented, if we are willing to give up
our constituional freedoms and let government agencies poke in our daily lives. Then
US would not be any different than Old Soviet Union, where the government knew
everything and anything about you.
> Interesting article, with the INS having no-one on duty Memorial day weekend.
>
> http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49166.htm
INS is one of the Federal agency which overwhelmed with responsibilites from
garurding US borders from illegal immigration to prevent foreignors working illegally
in the US. In addition, they are also responsible for Natuaralization.
I have seen alot of agruments going on in the subject about why the local authorities
in New York arrested my four fellow Pakistanis.
The problem is that no agency other than INS can detain/check/clear anyone for
immigration violations. I think that is why those people were let go. I assure you
that they were not terrorist, they probably poor guys working in construction all day
long, probably paid thousands of dollars to gain entery in the US so they can support
thier families back home. INS would have found immigration violation on them and they
probably would have been deported back to Pakistan.
On one hand, we expect to have freedom and on the other hand, we are blaming the
government about failing to prevent the 9/11 terrorist attacks. There is so much any
government agency could do to prevent anything, keeping in mind that providing all
the constitutional rights. Whenever US government agency tries to do something to
effect your privacy, we get upset and complain to our Congressmen which turn around
and ask government agency to back off.
They only way, future attacks would be 100% prevented, if we are willing to give up
our constituional freedoms and let government agencies poke in our daily lives. Then
US would not be any different than Old Soviet Union, where the government knew
everything and anything about you.
