Lynn

how do you know that people from Saudi Arabia are still getting their visas?



[email protected] (George F.) wrote in message
news:<[email protected] om>...
    > Below is a copy of my email to O'Reilly factor!
    > -----------------------------------------------------
    > Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:48:42 -0700 (PDT) From:"George F."
    > <[email protected]> Subject: Russian fiancees and wives are terrorist suspects
    > To[email protected]
    > Dear O'Reilly,
    > I and hundreds of US citizens whose fiancees and wives passed
    > their interviews in Moscow embassy are put in a limbo. They
    > stopped issuing visas since 7/22/02.
    > The rest of the world DO continue to issue K1 and K3 visas
    > (fiancee and wife visas of US citizens), except Russia,
    > China, Egypt, and Cuba. For the case of Egypt, we may
    > understand what it is, but ... give me a break... russian
    > fiancees are suspected to be terrorists? By the way, people
    > from Saudi Arabia are getting their visas to come here
    > without any problems. Isn't this fun?
    > Many ladies with their children have travelled hundreds and
    > thousands of miles, they got to Moscow, and were told after
    > the interview, that they've passed the interview but there is
    > an additional administrative process they have to do. Many
    > of them bought their tickets and had to postpone their
    > flights many times, and it costs at least $200 to do so.
    > Many of them sleep on the streets. It's a total chaos in and
    > around the US consulate in Moscow. We are talking about 2.5
    > to 3 thousand people affected of this "wise" decision by our
    > governemnt.
    > The decision came from the Dep. of State to halt all the
    > issuance of visas to K1/K3 people since July 22, 2002. Why?
    > Nobody seam to care? But the worst thing is that the
    > fiancees are not told when this will end, but rather, they're
    > told to call back in couple of days, in a week, in two weeks,
    > and this goes on and on.
    > C'mon, who the hell has profiled these beautiful, family
    > oriented women, and many with their children, that are coming
    > here to harm us? Why? Mr. O'Reilly, have you seen any
    > Russian female terrorists around? The US constitution says
    > should guarantee life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. If
    > we do not get our loved ones here, then why do we need those
    > pompous words?
    > Regards, George, a totally pissed off US citizen

[email protected]

ftheone wrote:
    > >
    > You went with your wife when she went for her interview?

Yes, I did..

If she would
    > have went July 22, she would still be waiting for her visa. What would you
    > have done?

I would have come home. She would have flown back to Siberia to continue her jobs.
After all, by that time, I had already been in Russia for about 5 weeks in a 2
month period.

She didn't quit it until after she got the visa. Would you have stayed in Moscow with
her for the last
    > six weeks? Or would you have come on back to the US and sent her home to Siberia
    > to wait?

She has friends and relatives in Siberia. Why would she wait in Moscow? She knows
people in Moscow, but they aren't that close.

    > How would you deal with all the disinformation coming out of the Consulate?


    > With the ever changing issue date? It is a difficult decission to reserve a room
    > at the hotel for another few days, or another week, or should it be for two weeks?
    > Or a month?


Return home and resume life as it was without the visit to Moscow.

And don't
    > call the $1.60 per minute phone number, they won't tell you a thing that is
    > usefull.

Why do you continue to call a number that can't give you information?

    > The Moscow Consulate were issuing visas the same afternoon of the successful
    > interview all summer up to and including July 19. They have suddenly and without
    > notice or warning stopped July 22, and have not issued a K type visa since.

MANY people didn't get visas the same day in the past. As someone else posted here,
the statement from the embassy has always been crystal clear, "Don't make plans until
you get the visa".

Ben Johnson

You are missing the point.......just as Jonathan has, and continues to do.

Since it needs to be spelled out for you.......

The point is, that Jonathan's moronic post implies someone picked his finace out of a
"catalog". The original post in this thread had nothing to do with fiance
selecting........ and in fact, Jonathan's post had little to do with anything
relating to the original post...... It was simply an attempt at "sensational"
posting, that went overboard........ and it seems to have slipped by a few (such as
yourself) who continue to defend it.

Also.....FYI.... not a SINGLE person (other than yourself, maybe) is here for
Jonathan's perspective on marriage "catalogs"... Got it ??


    > Not if the OP actually picked his bride from a catalog. My wife has friends that
    > wouldn't mind meeting an American, but they will not put themselves into a catalog.
    > For them, they pretty much agree with Jonathan's perspective on marriage catalogs.
    > So, if you are searching loveme.com, you aren't going to find them.

Grinch

"Ben Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
hlink.net...

    > Also.....FYI.... not a SINGLE person (other than yourself, maybe) is here for
    > Jonathan's perspective on marriage "catalogs"... Got it ??

Who appointed you the spokesman for the group? You have no idea what people
are here for.

Grinch

George F.

Folks, I'd like to reply some of the replies to my original post. I'm sorry if it's
a little bit late.

    > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) Why are many of them "sleeping on the
    > streets"? Why didn't they go home? With the cost of rent in most of Russia, there
    > is no reason for this "sleeping on the streets" There should have never been any
    > expectation of getting the visa the same day.

All they, who were interviewed after 7/22/02 have thought they'll get their visas on
the same or in couple of days. That's why!



    > From: Morkai Kurst ([email protected]) I don't wish to get into a flame
    > war nor choose sides in an issue but at the bottom of the IV15 checklist it stated:
    > III. IMPORTANT NOTE: Visa issuance is not guaranteed.

That's true. And it is true for GB, France, and other European countries too.
The main point here is the Russia, China and others were singled out without any
prior warning.


    > From: Jonathan_ATC ([email protected]) Your letter is flippant and a little
    > rude. I doubt you'll get much of a response. Although, maybe Bill O'Reilly is
    > like Howard Stern and he thrives on such rudeness? This is definitely not a letter
    > I would send off to anyone.

    > Besides, everyone KNOWs that they are not issuing visas. The onus is on the
    > applicant to know this and not apply right now. Sleeping in the streets is their
    > choice, not something mandated by the consulate. Again, we already know that they
    > are not issuing visas. Every ONE person thinks that their case will be the one to
    > be approved. That is not the case, they are approving no one according to you.
    > So, it would be pretty stupid to try for a visa right now. Pick another girl
    > from another catalog... This time pick a "good" country from which visas ARE
    > being issued.

O boy, here we go again. I feel sorry for you. To be polite, I'd just say your
email sucks. It smells arrogance and total disregard of feelings of your fellow
Americans. Moreover, you luck critical judgement. I hope your wife/fiancee is not
from Russia or other countries affected by this new policy of DOS.

I'm not a lawyer to formulate as logically and grammatically and judicially correct
as you've done or your post. But, havaing and audacity to say that sleeping in the
streets is their choice, is the same as blaming homeless people for sleeping on the
street by saying that it's their choice. The logice of all these has been suggesting
that the consulate in Moscow up untill and including July 19, 2002, has been issuing
K1/K3 visas ON THE SAME DAY. Reasonable people seeing this PATTERN would assume
they'd get their visas on the same day. Though the law and embassy suggest not to
have any travel arrangements, they would assume so.

Jonathan, you sound extremely retarded by saying "Pick another girl from another
catalog..." As a matter of fact, my fiance and I were introduced by my coworker, whe
was her cousin three years ago. I have been in communication with my now fiancee for
the past three years, and I have visited Russia for four times. The point isn't how
long it did take, the point is that we both were extremely cautioous in making
life-commiting decisions. She has an auntie in Moscow, and she's very safe at the
moment, and she is in her vacation (she hasn't quited her work yet). It's been three
weeks already after her K1 interview. My email to O'Reilly was mainly to point the
fact that Moscow and others have stopped the visa issuance, and the facts I brought
up were actually anectodal evidence that anybody can confirm if they want: just go to
Moscow, and look around the American embassy and try to talk to ladies over there...

I just wonder, Mr. Jonathan, where your fiancee is from, and how you guys were
acquainted. Why do you see getting acquainted through a catalog so degrading. Why
you're so racist in discriminating between good and bad countries? Is your loved one
from a good one? Which is it? Jonathan, do you speak a second language? I just
wonder what sort of bigotry you're trying to disseminate in here. And how could you
say, you're here to help people, when you say such things? Shame on you!


    > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) He has contributed far more to this
    > newsgroup than you ever will. The letter you wrote was NOT a very good one. If
    > people are sleeping on the street, it is not the fault of the consulate. The
    > comments about YOUR constitutional rights has NOTHING to do with US immigration
    > policy. While I don't fully agree with the delays, I understand that the US State
    > Department and INS determine who immigrates to the US. It isn't about your
    > "beautiful, family oriented women" being profiled as terrorsts.

Mr. Travel, did he pay you to say such things? It IS the fault of the consulate not
to warn the fiancees of a new administrative process being implemented. It IS
the fault of the consulate that they do not tell the fiancees any definite
answer. They tell, call back in a day, then in three days, then in a week, then
in three weeks. And this is on-going? It IS a direct consequence of US
immigration policy, or you're shortsighted. Please get back to your senses, Mr.
Travel. If for the past years, all K1 visas were issued on the same day, would
you by a divine revelation surmise that starting 7/22/02 they won't be issued!
Then, ok, you tell me, why Russia, China and others were targeted for this
"additional administrative processing?"


George

Ben Johnson

So, I guess two people are here for that..... pardon me :-) carry on.....


"Grinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] link.-
net...
    > "Ben Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > earthlink.net    ...
    > > Also.....FYI.... not a SINGLE person (other than yourself, maybe) is
here
    > > for Jonathan's perspective on marriage "catalogs"... Got it ??
    > Who appointed you the spokesman for the group? You have no idea what people are
    > here for.
    > Grinch

Jonathan_atc

George...

I think you and everyone else has misconstrued what I said. I don't need to defend
myself or my comments. However, I will say that I DO harbor disdain for those who
pick their mates from a catalog. I can't help it. That is how I was raised, we
don't pick our mates from a catalog. I met my wife at a US University. Like normal
people. hahaha! Not from a catalog. I speak some French. Not agreeing with people
picking mates from a catalog does in no way make me a bigot or a racist. Countries
which it is hard or impossible to get a visa from ARE "bad" countries. Countries
where it is easy to get a visa from are "good" countries. My comments only had to do
with what INS thinks, not my personal feelings. I don't think one or another country
is bad or good, just that if you want to be married soon, you don't pick a girl from
a catalog that is in a "bad" country, or if you do, you wait and wait and wait.

Hope this sets things straight. It is so odd that people take offense to what I
said, it was not written to be offensive. Me thinks some people have their heads up
their a$$ on this subject.



--
Jonathan_ATC "George F." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
oogle.com...
    > Folks, I'd like to reply some of the replies to my original post. I'm sorry if
    > it's a little bit late.
    > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) Why are many of them "sleeping on the
    > > streets"? Why didn't they go home? With the cost of rent in most of Russia, there
    > > is no reason for this "sleeping on the streets" There should have never been any
    > > expectation of getting the visa the same day.
    > All they, who were interviewed after 7/22/02 have thought they'll get their visas
    > on the same or in couple of days. That's why!
    > > From: Morkai Kurst ([email protected]) I don't wish to get into a flame
    > > war nor choose sides in an issue but at
the
    > > bottom of the IV15 checklist it stated:
    > > III. IMPORTANT NOTE: Visa issuance is not guaranteed.
    > That's true. And it is true for GB, France, and other European countries too. The
    > main point here is the Russia, China and others were singled out without any prior
    > warning.
    > > From: Jonathan_ATC ([email protected]) Your letter is flippant and a little
    > > rude. I doubt you'll get much of a response. Although, maybe Bill O'Reilly is
    > > like Howard Stern and he
thrives
    > > on such rudeness? This is definitely not a letter I would send off to anyone.
    > > Besides, everyone KNOWs that they are not issuing visas. The onus is on
the
    > > applicant to know this and not apply right now. Sleeping in the streets
is
    > > their choice, not something mandated by the consulate. Again, we
already
    > > know that they are not issuing visas. Every ONE person thinks that
their
    > > case will be the one to be approved. That is not the case, they are approving no
    > > one according to you. So, it would be pretty stupid to try
for
    > > a visa right now. Pick another girl from another catalog... This time pick a
    > > "good" country from which visas ARE being issued.
    > O boy, here we go again. I feel sorry for you. To be polite, I'd just say your
    > email sucks. It smells arrogance and total disregard of feelings of your fellow
    > Americans. Moreover, you luck critical judgement. I hope your wife/fiancee is not
    > from Russia or other countries affected by this new policy of DOS.
    > I'm not a lawyer to formulate as logically and grammatically and judicially
    > correct as you've done or your post. But, havaing and audacity to say that
    > sleeping in the streets is their choice, is the same as blaming homeless people for
    > sleeping on the street by saying that it's their choice. The logice of all these
    > has been suggesting that the consulate in Moscow up untill and including July 19,
    > 2002, has been issuing K1/K3 visas ON THE SAME DAY. Reasonable people seeing this
    > PATTERN would assume they'd get their visas on the same day. Though the law and
    > embassy suggest not to have any travel arrangements, they would assume so.
    > Jonathan, you sound extremely retarded by saying "Pick another girl from another
    > catalog..." As a matter of fact, my fiance and I were introduced by my coworker,
    > whe was her cousin three years ago. I have been in communication with my now
    > fiancee for the past three years, and I have visited Russia for four times. The
    > point isn't how long it did take, the point is that we both were extremely
    > cautioous in making life-commiting decisions. She has an auntie in Moscow, and
    > she's very safe at the moment, and she is in her vacation (she hasn't quited her
    > work yet). It's been three weeks already after her K1 interview. My email to
    > O'Reilly was mainly to point the fact that Moscow and others have stopped the visa
    > issuance, and the facts I brought up were actually anectodal evidence that anybody
    > can confirm if they want: just go to Moscow, and look around the American embassy
    > and try to talk to ladies over there...
    > I just wonder, Mr. Jonathan, where your fiancee is from, and how you guys were
    > acquainted. Why do you see getting acquainted through a catalog so degrading. Why
    > you're so racist in discriminating between good and bad countries? Is your loved
    > one from a good one? Which is it? Jonathan, do you speak a second language? I
    > just wonder what sort of bigotry you're trying to disseminate in here. And how
    > could you say, you're here to help people, when you say such things? Shame on you!
    > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) He has contributed far more to this
    > > newsgroup than you ever will. The letter you wrote was NOT a very good one. If
    > > people are sleeping on the street, it is not the fault of the consulate. The
    > > comments about YOUR constitutional rights has NOTHING to do with US immigration
    > > policy. While I don't fully agree with the delays, I understand that the US State
    > > Department and INS determine who immigrates to the US. It isn't about your
    > > "beautiful, family oriented women" being profiled as terrorsts.
    > Mr. Travel, did he pay you to say such things? It IS the fault of the consulate
    > not to warn the fiancees of a new administrative process being implemented. It
    > IS the fault of the consulate that they do not tell the fiancees any definite
    > answer. They tell, call back in a day, then in three days, then in a week,
    > then in three weeks. And this is on-going? It IS a direct consequence of US
    > immigration policy, or you're shortsighted. Please get back to your senses,
    > Mr. Travel. If for the past years, all K1 visas were issued on the same day,
    > would you by a divine revelation surmise that starting 7/22/02 they won't be
    > issued! Then, ok, you tell me, why Russia, China and others were targeted for
    > this "additional administrative processing?"
    > George

Morkai Kurst

    > That's true. And it is true for GB, France, and other European countries too. The
    > main point here is the Russia, China and others were singled out without any prior
    > warning.

True it is and I assume for every single country. And I appreciate the fact that
people in those countries have been left without any information whatsoever and I
still feel for them greatly but that does not make that warning any less. It clearly
states there is no guarantee and people should not assume they will get their visa
whatever country you are coming from.

I'm in the UK yes, I have my interview on wednesday and bar a little hiccup I
shouldn't have any problem getting my visa, I've been seeing my fiance for 4 years,
with several trips out there. There is no real reason why I should not get my visa,
everything points to me walking out with it in my passport on wednesday. However I
have not quit my job, I have not shipped my stuff, nor have I even bought my plane
tickets yet although I plan to fly out on the 24th of this month - IF - everything
goes to plan. And that is the cruicial point. If... Things can go wrong, or just
plain unexpected. Maybe they'll decide my evidence isn't quite enough, maybe for some
stupid reason they have lost their stamp and can't find the spare one and so are
unable to to stamp my passport. Yes thats an extremely stupid possibility but
anything can happen. Maybe it'll be more serious and there will be a major bomb scare
in London which means the whole embassy is evacuated, Maybe this patriot act will
suddenly extend to every consulate and I will discover they aren't issuing visa's in
london anymore either.

My point is why should anyone ignore a clearly written warning except at their own
risk. These people were warned there is no escaping that fact and I will add this is
a totally seperate issue to what is happening at present. I cannot help but wonder
why these people assume they will have no problem to the extent that when they do hit
a problem their life is in shreds around them.

Maybe I'm just a pessamist that always assumes the worst so I don't take risks.

I wish you every luck with your fight but I think your taking the wrong angle by
mentioning people who have given up their homes and jobs because the INS will just
turn round and say 'Thats not our fault. They were clearly warned in writing that
visa issuance was not guaranteed' Fight the fight with reasons where you cannot get
an unarguable rebuttal like that cause the INS will stick to that like glue and you
don't have a hope in hell in winning on those grounds. You do however have the right
to answers and correct information, thts where your fight should be aiming.

I wish you and all those people with you the best of luck and hope for speedy
answers.

Morkai

Mrtravel

Ben Johnson wrote:
    > Also.....FYI.... not a SINGLE person (other than yourself, maybe) is here for
    > Jonathan's perspective on marriage "catalogs"... Got it ??

Do you GET IT? We are here for the discussion. I don't mind hearing Jonathan's views
on whatever he wants to make a comment on. Do you think everything you post here must
be met with approval. The letter to O'Reilly ranks right up there with the web page
someone created to petition the President and Congress. The problem needs resolution,
but ramblings in a letter or web site isn't going to accomplish it. Accurate,
detailed information about the problem send to the correct people will accomplish the
goal. Nonsense won't.

Mrtravel

"George F." wrote:
    > Folks, I'd like to reply some of the replies to my original post. I'm sorry if
    > it's a little bit late.
    > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) Why are many of them "sleeping on the
    > > streets"? Why didn't they go home? With the cost of rent in most of Russia, there
    > > is no reason for this "sleeping on the streets" There should have never been any
    > > expectation of getting the visa the same day.
    > All they, who were interviewed after 7/22/02 have thought they'll get their visas
    > on the same or in couple of days. That's why!

Despite the WARNING from the Moscow Embassy that indicates people should not change
their lives until the actually get the visa. It tells people not to give up their
jobs and homes until they get the visa. It isn't plainer than that.

    > > From: Morkai Kurst ([email protected]) I don't wish to get into a flame
    > > war nor choose sides in an issue but at the bottom of the IV15 checklist it
    > > stated:
    > > III. IMPORTANT NOTE: Visa issuance is not guaranteed.
    > That's true. And it is true for GB, France, and other European countries too. The
    > main point here is the Russia, China and others were singled out without any prior
    > warning.

I don't expect the Congress or President to warn me in advance that they are
increasing border security.

    > I'm not a lawyer to formulate as logically and grammatically and judicially
    > correct as you've done or your post. But, havaing and audacity to say that
    > sleeping in the streets is their choice, is the same as blaming homeless people for
    > sleeping on the street by saying that it's their choice.

Pending immigrants are not HOMELESS, unless they gave up their homes in anticipation
of a same day visa, and IGNORED the consulate info telling them NOT TO DO THAT. I
suspect that most US sponsors are capable of financially assisting them for a couple
of months it takes to resolve the problem. No, I don't mean put them up at nice
hotels if you don't have the money. I am referring to them continuing with the same
standard of living they had before making a trip to Moscow where there was never a
guarantee, and there were warnings about, a same day visa.

The logice of all these has been suggesting
    > that the consulate in Moscow up untill and including July 19, 2002, has been
    > issuing K1/K3 visas ON THE SAME DAY. Reasonable people seeing this PATTERN would
    > assume they'd get their visas on the same day. Though the law and embassy suggest
    > not to have any travel arrangements, they would assume so.

Well, they shouldn't make such assumptions when the consulate has warned them not to
make that assumption.


    > did take, the point is that we both were extremely cautioous in m

See, you followed the caution.

She has an auntie in Moscow, and she's very
    > safe at the moment, and she is in her vacation (she hasn't quited her work yet).
    > It's been three weeks already after her K1 interview.

So, she isn't sleeping in the street?

My
    > email to O'Reilly was mainly to point the fact that Moscow and others have stopped
    > the visa issuance, and the facts I brought up were actually anectodal evidence that
    > anybody can confirm if they want:

So, you are writing a letter based on information that you have no direct knowledge
of. Do you really think the American spouses, fiancees, or other relatives are having
their loved ones sleep in the streets?

    > just go to Moscow, and look around the American embassy and try to talk to ladies
    > over there...

I know people in Moscow. No of them can corroborate any talk of people sleeping on
the street due to no getting a fiancee visa.

    > Mr. Travel, did he pay you to say such things?

Sure, the check is in the email. Are you too STUPID to think that everyone is
going to agree with you? If you are going to write a damn letter of complaint, get
the facts straight and don't rely on anecdotal stories. Write about things you
know to be facts.

It IS the fault of the
    > consulate not to warn the fiancees of a new administrative process being
    > implemented.

Bull! They didn't have to warn them of a change. They already warned people not to
give up their homes and jobs. If this advice wasn't followed, why would anything else
they said not be ignored?

    > It IS the fault of the consulate that they do not tell the fiancees any
    > definite answer.

The consulate doesn't have a definite answer. If they did, why wouldn't they
tell people?

They tell, call back in a day,
    > then in three days, then in a week, then in three weeks. And this is on-going? It
    > IS a direct consequence of US immigration policy, or you're shortsighted.

It is a consequence of US policy and NOT the fault of the consulate as your letter to
O'Reilly seemed to indicate.

Please get back to your senses, Mr. Travel. If
    > for the past years, all K1 visas were issued on the same day

No, they weren't always issued the same day, AND the consulate's warnings are
very clear.

, would
    > you by a divine revelation surmise that starting 7/22/02 they won't be issued!
    > Then, ok, you tell me, why Russia, China and others were targeted for this
    > "additional administrative processing?"

Fraud rates Do you not think Russia had a high percentage of fraud? Unlike your
letter which seems to focus on these people as possible terrorists. It has NOTHING to
do with them being profiled as terrorists. That is a different issue covered under
other policies. Your letter to O'Reilly didn't show you made any effort to determine
that basis for Russia to be included in this group. Even common sense would dictate
that Russia was NOT targeted due to Muslim terrorists.

Jonathan_atc

Oh, Jonathan starts to make sense and we ignore the post. When you were still
misunderstanding my post, you all wanted to join the attack on me. So be it. I know
who to ignore now.

--
Jonathan_ATC "Jonathan_ATC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:UDLc9.246282$Aw4.10457012@b-
in2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
    > George...
    > I think you and everyone else has misconstrued what I said. I don't need
to
    > defend myself or my comments. However, I will say that I DO harbor
disdain
    > for those who pick their mates from a catalog. I can't help it. That is how I was
    > raised, we don't pick our mates from a catalog. I met my wife at a US University.
    > Like normal people. hahaha! Not from
a
    > catalog. I speak some French. Not agreeing with people picking mates from a catalog
    > does in no way make
me
    > a bigot or a racist. Countries which it is hard or impossible to get a visa from
    > ARE "bad" countries. Countries where it is easy to get a visa from are "good"
    > countries. My comments only had to do with what INS thinks, not my
personal
    > feelings. I don't think one or another country is bad or good, just that
if
    > you want to be married soon, you don't pick a girl from a catalog that is
in
    > a "bad" country, or if you do, you wait and wait and wait.
    > Hope this sets things straight. It is so odd that people take offense to what I
    > said, it was not written to be offensive. Me thinks some people
have
    > their heads up their a$$ on this subject.
    > --
    > Jonathan_ATC "George F." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:854d2917.0209020144.2474a99@posti-
    > ng.google.com    ...
    > > Folks, I'd like to reply some of the replies to my original post. I'm sorry if
    > > it's a little bit late.
    > >
    > > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) Why are many of them "sleeping on the
    > > > streets"? Why didn't they go home? With the cost of rent in most of Russia,
there
    > > > is no reason for this "sleeping on the streets" There should have never been
    > > > any expectation of getting the visa the same day.
    > >
    > > All they, who were interviewed after 7/22/02 have thought they'll get their visas
    > > on the same or in couple of days. That's why!
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > > From: Morkai Kurst ([email protected]) I don't wish to get into a
    > > > flame war nor choose sides in an issue but
at
    > the
    > > > bottom of the IV15 checklist it stated:
    > > > III. IMPORTANT NOTE: Visa issuance is not guaranteed.
    > >
    > > That's true. And it is true for GB, France, and other European countries too.
    > > The main point here is the Russia, China and others were singled out without any
    > > prior warning.
    > >
    > >
    > > > From: Jonathan_ATC ([email protected]) Your letter is flippant and a
    > > > little rude. I doubt you'll get much of
a
    > > > response. Although, maybe Bill O'Reilly is like Howard Stern and he
    > thrives
    > > > on such rudeness? This is definitely not a letter I would send off to anyone.
    > >
    > > > Besides, everyone KNOWs that they are not issuing visas. The onus is
on
    > the
    > > > applicant to know this and not apply right now. Sleeping in the
streets
    > is
    > > > their choice, not something mandated by the consulate. Again, we
    > already
    > > > know that they are not issuing visas. Every ONE person thinks that
    > their
    > > > case will be the one to be approved. That is not the case, they are approving
    > > > no one according to you. So, it would be pretty stupid to
try
    > for
    > > > a visa right now. Pick another girl from another catalog... This
time
    > > > pick a "good" country from which visas ARE being issued.
    > >
    > > O boy, here we go again. I feel sorry for you. To be polite, I'd just say your
    > > email sucks. It smells arrogance and total disregard of feelings of your fellow
    > > Americans. Moreover, you luck critical judgement. I hope your wife/fiancee is
    > > not from Russia or other countries affected by this new policy of DOS.
    > >
    > > I'm not a lawyer to formulate as logically and grammatically and judicially
    > > correct as you've done or your post. But, havaing and audacity to say that
    > > sleeping in the streets is their choice, is the same as blaming homeless people
    > > for sleeping on the street by saying that it's their choice. The logice of all
    > > these has been suggesting that the consulate in Moscow up untill and including
    > > July 19, 2002, has been issuing K1/K3 visas ON THE SAME DAY. Reasonable people
    > > seeing this PATTERN would assume they'd get their visas on the same day. Though
    > > the law and embassy suggest not to have any travel arrangements, they would
    > > assume so.
    > >
    > > Jonathan, you sound extremely retarded by saying "Pick another girl from another
    > > catalog..." As a matter of fact, my fiance and I were introduced by my coworker,
    > > whe was her cousin three years ago. I have been in communication with my now
    > > fiancee for the past three years, and I have visited Russia for four times. The
    > > point isn't how long it did take, the point is that we both were extremely
    > > cautioous in making life-commiting decisions. She has an auntie in Moscow, and
    > > she's very safe at the moment, and she is in her vacation (she hasn't quited her
    > > work yet). It's been three weeks already after her K1 interview. My email to
    > > O'Reilly was mainly to point the fact that Moscow and others have stopped the
    > > visa issuance, and the facts I brought up were actually anectodal evidence that
    > > anybody can confirm if they want: just go to Moscow, and look around the American
    > > embassy and try to talk to ladies over there...
    > >
    > > I just wonder, Mr. Jonathan, where your fiancee is from, and how you guys were
    > > acquainted. Why do you see getting acquainted through a catalog so degrading.
    > > Why you're so racist in discriminating between good and bad countries? Is your
    > > loved one from a good one? Which is it? Jonathan, do you speak a second
    > > language? I just wonder what sort of bigotry you're trying to disseminate in
    > > here. And how could you say, you're here to help people, when you say such
    > > things? Shame on you!
    > >
    > >
    > > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) He has contributed far more to this
    > > > newsgroup than you ever will. The letter you wrote was NOT a very good one. If
    > > > people are sleeping
on
    > > > the street, it is not the fault of the consulate. The comments about YOUR
    > > > constitutional rights has NOTHING to do with US immigration
policy.
    > > > While I don't fully agree with the delays, I understand that the US State
    > > > Department and INS determine who immigrates to the US. It isn't about your
    > > > "beautiful, family oriented women" being profiled
as
    > > > terrorsts.
    > >
    > > Mr. Travel, did he pay you to say such things? It IS the fault of the consulate
    > > not to warn the fiancees of a new administrative process being implemented.
    > > It IS the fault of the consulate that they do not tell the fiancees any
    > > definite answer. They tell, call back in a day, then in three days, then in
    > > a week, then in three weeks. And this is on-going? It IS a direct
    > > consequence of US immigration policy, or you're shortsighted. Please get
    > > back to your senses, Mr. Travel. If for the past years, all K1 visas were
    > > issued on the same day, would you by a divine revelation surmise that
    > > starting 7/22/02 they won't be issued! Then, ok, you tell me, why Russia,
    > > China and others were targeted for this "additional administrative
    > > processing?"
    > >
    > >
    > > George

Ben Johnson

Don't give yourself so much credit.....

Your post was read....it was not ignored. It was not responded to, because it was
obvious you were going off the deep end on this. YOU foolishly implied the original
poster had used a "catalog"......and then have continued to create arguments to
justify your rush to uninformed judgement. Your arguments about the letter to
O'Reilly, were enough to make your point in response to the OP.

Incidentally....what makes you appear foolish with these statements, is that NOBODY
"picks their mate from a catalog". Personal ads have been used in the states in
various forms for years....newspapers, entire magazines, etc. The internet ushered in
a whole new form of the world wide personal ads..... these come in various forms, but
in all of them, the parities meet and if there is spark, perhaps they decided to get
together... if not they move on. If they decide to get together, it is not either
having been "picked" from a catalog. In fact......is anyone here familiar with a
trend of people "picking" mates from a catalog and "ordering them (sight unseen) to
the US with a fiancée visa? (that is what you are implying is it not?.......otherwise
I assume even the blind date would be seen by you with disdain.)



"Jonathan_ATC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
.giganews.com...
    > Oh, Jonathan starts to make sense and we ignore the post. When you were still
    > misunderstanding my post, you all wanted to join the attack on me.
So
    > be it. I know who to ignore now.
    > --
    > Jonathan_ATC "Jonathan_ATC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:UDLc9.246282$Aw4.104570-
    > [email protected]    ...
    > > George...
    > >
    > > I think you and everyone else has misconstrued what I said. I don't
need
    > to
    > > defend myself or my comments. However, I will say that I DO harbor
    > disdain
    > > for those who pick their mates from a catalog. I can't help it. That
is
    > > how I was raised, we don't pick our mates from a catalog. I met my wife at a US
    > > University. Like normal people. hahaha! Not
from
    > a
    > > catalog. I speak some French. Not agreeing with people picking mates from a
    > > catalog does in no way
make
    > me
    > > a bigot or a racist. Countries which it is hard or impossible to get a visa from
    > > ARE "bad" countries. Countries where it is easy to get a visa from are "good"
    > > countries. My comments only had to do with what INS thinks, not my
    > personal
    > > feelings. I don't think one or another country is bad or good, just
that
    > if
    > > you want to be married soon, you don't pick a girl from a catalog that
is
    > in
    > > a "bad" country, or if you do, you wait and wait and wait.
    > >
    > > Hope this sets things straight. It is so odd that people take offense
to
    > > what I said, it was not written to be offensive. Me thinks some people
    > have
    > > their heads up their a$$ on this subject.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Jonathan_ATC "George F." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:854d2917.0209020144.2474a99@p-
    > > osting.google.com    ...
    > > > Folks, I'd like to reply some of the replies to my original post. I'm sorry if
    > > > it's a little bit late.
    > > >
    > > > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) Why are many of them "sleeping on the
    > > > > streets"? Why didn't they go home? With the cost of rent in most of Russia,
    > there
    > > > > is no reason for this "sleeping on the streets" There should have never been
    > > > > any expectation of getting the visa the same day.
    > > >
    > > > All they, who were interviewed after 7/22/02 have thought they'll get their
    > > > visas on the same or in couple of days. That's why!
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > From: Morkai Kurst ([email protected]) I don't wish to get into a
    > > > > flame war nor choose sides in an issue
but
    > at
    > > the
    > > > > bottom of the IV15 checklist it stated:
    > > > > III. IMPORTANT NOTE: Visa issuance is not guaranteed.
    > > >
    > > > That's true. And it is true for GB, France, and other European countries too.
    > > > The main point here is the Russia, China and others were singled out without
    > > > any prior warning.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > From: Jonathan_ATC ([email protected]) Your letter is flippant and a
    > > > > little rude. I doubt you'll get much
of
    > a
    > > > > response. Although, maybe Bill O'Reilly is like Howard Stern and he
    > > thrives
    > > > > on such rudeness? This is definitely not a letter I would send off
to
    > > > > anyone.
    > > >
    > > > > Besides, everyone KNOWs that they are not issuing visas. The onus
is
    > on
    > > the
    > > > > applicant to know this and not apply right now. Sleeping in the
    > streets
    > > is
    > > > > their choice, not something mandated by the consulate. Again, we
    > > already
    > > > > know that they are not issuing visas. Every ONE person thinks that
    > > their
    > > > > case will be the one to be approved. That is not the case, they are
    > > > > approving no one according to you. So, it would be pretty stupid to
    > try
    > > for
    > > > > a visa right now. Pick another girl from another catalog... This
    > time
    > > > > pick a "good" country from which visas ARE being issued.
    > > >
    > > > O boy, here we go again. I feel sorry for you. To be polite, I'd just say
    > > > your email sucks. It smells arrogance and total disregard of feelings of your
    > > > fellow Americans. Moreover, you luck critical judgement. I hope your
    > > > wife/fiancee is not from Russia or other countries affected by this new policy
    > > > of DOS.
    > > >
    > > > I'm not a lawyer to formulate as logically and grammatically and judicially
    > > > correct as you've done or your post. But, havaing and audacity to say that
    > > > sleeping in the streets is their choice, is the same as blaming homeless people
    > > > for sleeping on the street by saying that it's their choice. The logice of all
    > > > these has been suggesting that the consulate in Moscow up untill and including
    > > > July 19, 2002, has been issuing K1/K3 visas ON THE SAME DAY. Reasonable people
    > > > seeing this PATTERN would assume they'd get their visas on the same day.
    > > > Though the law and embassy suggest not to have any travel arrangements, they
    > > > would assume so.
    > > >
    > > > Jonathan, you sound extremely retarded by saying "Pick another girl from
    > > > another catalog..." As a matter of fact, my fiance and I were introduced by my
    > > > coworker, whe was her cousin three years ago. I have been in communication
    > > > with my now fiancee for the past three years, and I have visited Russia for
    > > > four times. The point isn't how long it did take, the point is that we both
    > > > were extremely cautioous in making life-commiting decisions. She has an auntie
    > > > in Moscow, and she's very safe at the moment, and she is in her vacation (she
    > > > hasn't quited her work yet). It's been three weeks already after her K1
    > > > interview. My email to O'Reilly was mainly to point the fact that Moscow and
    > > > others have stopped the visa issuance, and the facts I brought up were actually
    > > > anectodal evidence that anybody can confirm if they want: just go to Moscow,
    > > > and look around the American embassy and try to talk to ladies over there...
    > > >
    > > > I just wonder, Mr. Jonathan, where your fiancee is from, and how you guys were
    > > > acquainted. Why do you see getting acquainted through a catalog so degrading.
    > > > Why you're so racist in discriminating between good and bad countries? Is your
    > > > loved one from a good one? Which is it? Jonathan, do you speak a second
    > > > language? I just wonder what sort of bigotry you're trying to disseminate in
    > > > here. And how could you say, you're here to help people, when you say such
    > > > things? Shame on you!
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) He has contributed far more to this
    > > > > newsgroup than you ever will. The letter you wrote was NOT a very good one.
    > > > > If people are sleeping
    > on
    > > > > the street, it is not the fault of the consulate. The comments about YOUR
    > > > > constitutional rights has NOTHING to do with US immigration
    > policy.
    > > > > While I don't fully agree with the delays, I understand that the US State
    > > > > Department and INS determine who immigrates to the US. It isn't about your
    > > > > "beautiful, family oriented women" being
profiled
    > as
    > > > > terrorsts.
    > > >
    > > > Mr. Travel, did he pay you to say such things? It IS the fault of the
    > > > consulate not to warn the fiancees of a new administrative process being
    > > > implemented. It IS the fault of the consulate that they do not tell the
    > > > fiancees any definite answer. They tell, call back in a day, then in three
    > > > days, then in a week, then in three weeks. And this is on-going? It IS a
    > > > direct consequence of US immigration policy, or you're shortsighted.
    > > > Please get back to your senses, Mr. Travel. If for the past years, all K1
    > > > visas were issued on the same day, would you by a divine revelation surmise
    > > > that starting 7/22/02 they won't be issued! Then, ok, you tell me, why
    > > > Russia, China and others were targeted for this "additional administrative
    > > > processing?"
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > George
    > >

Jonathan_atc

Why, YeS! I do look upon the blind date with disdain also! How funny how you have
every nuance about me figured out! LOL! I would never go on a blind date nor would
my wife. (before being married, that is) But, that, like my comment about the
picking another girl from the "catalog" was just that, a passing comment.

I re-read my original post and do agree it may have come across differently than
I expected.

Point: ALMOST anyone meeting a woman in the FSU has met them through some sort of
agency where they used a "catalog" of pictures and bio's to pick and choose whom they
want to meet. Come on, they can't get visas to come here, so the USC had to find
them somehow. Most didn't just start chatting in a chat room or communicate via
e-mail in the beginning. This is NOT how they MET.

My comment about finding another girl from the catalog in a "good" country was just
that, a passing comment. That was the reason for my comment. If I have skewed
perception of how these people could have possibly met if not through a service, then
please correct me. All I know is that I see very little way for these people to have
met if not through a "catalog" service. I have seen the websites, I do know a little
about the subject. You tell
me... how do you meet a woman from the FSU? You might not call it a catalog, you
might have different name for it. I see it as SICK and AMORAL to pick a mate in
such a way. If you want to ridicule my belief system, feel free.

But my original comment was nothing more than what it was, a comment. It in no way
defines who I am as a human being. You may have one idea of who I am, but I am sure
that others who know me have a distinctly different idea of who I am.

I am so sorry that some people read it wrong, but I can't take back what I said now.
All I can do is defend myself against the barrage of comments from people who have no
idea who I am, how helpful I can be and how much knowledge about the world and how it
works I have. So be it.

Good day to you, sir.
--
Jonathan_ATC "Ben Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:fB1d9.5356$6i4.381213@newsre-
ad1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
    > Don't give yourself so much credit.....
    > Your post was read....it was not ignored. It was not responded to, because it was
    > obvious you were going off the
deep
    > end on this. YOU foolishly implied the original poster had used a
    > "catalog"......and
then
    > have continued to create arguments to justify your rush to uninformed judgement.
    > Your arguments about the letter to O'Reilly, were enough to
make
    > your point in response to the OP.
    > Incidentally....what makes you appear foolish with these statements, is
that
    > NOBODY "picks their mate from a catalog". Personal ads have been used in the states
    > in various forms for years....newspapers, entire magazines, etc. The internet
    > ushered in a
whole
    > new form of the world wide personal ads..... these come in various forms, but in
    > all of them, the parities meet and if there is spark, perhaps they decided to get
    > together... if not they move on. If they decide to get together, it is not either
    > having been "picked" from a catalog. In fact......is anyone here familiar with a
    > trend of people "picking" mates from a catalog and "ordering them (sight unseen) to
    > the US with a fiancée visa? (that is what you are implying is it
    > not?.......otherwise I assume even the blind date would be seen by you with
    > disdain.)
    > "Jonathan_ATC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > aus1.giganews.com    ...
    > > Oh, Jonathan starts to make sense and we ignore the post. When you were still
    > > misunderstanding my post, you all wanted to join the attack on me.
    > So
    > > be it. I know who to ignore now.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Jonathan_ATC "Jonathan_ATC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:UDLc9.246282$Aw4.10-
    > > [email protected]    ...
    > > > George...
    > > >
    > > > I think you and everyone else has misconstrued what I said. I don't
    > need
    > > to
    > > > defend myself or my comments. However, I will say that I DO harbor
    > > disdain
    > > > for those who pick their mates from a catalog. I can't help it. That
    > is
    > > > how I was raised, we don't pick our mates from a catalog. I met my wife at a US
    > > > University. Like normal people. hahaha! Not
    > from
    > > a
    > > > catalog. I speak some French. Not agreeing with people picking mates from a
    > > > catalog does in no way
    > make
    > > me
    > > > a bigot or a racist. Countries which it is hard or impossible to get a visa
    > > > from ARE "bad" countries. Countries where it is easy to get a visa from are
    > > > "good" countries. My comments only had to do with what INS thinks, not my
    > > personal
    > > > feelings. I don't think one or another country is bad or good, just
    > that
    > > if
    > > > you want to be married soon, you don't pick a girl from a catalog that
    > is
    > > in
    > > > a "bad" country, or if you do, you wait and wait and wait.
    > > >
    > > > Hope this sets things straight. It is so odd that people take offense
    > to
    > > > what I said, it was not written to be offensive. Me thinks some
people
    > > have
    > > > their heads up their a$$ on this subject.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Jonathan_ATC "George F." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:854d2917.0209020144.2474a-
    > > > [email protected]    ...
    > > > > Folks, I'd like to reply some of the replies to my original post.
I'm
    > > > > sorry if it's a little bit late.
    > > > >
    > > > > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) Why are many of them "sleeping on
    > > > > > the streets"? Why didn't they go home? With the cost of rent in most of
    > > > > > Russia,
    > > there
    > > > > > is no reason for this "sleeping on the streets" There should have never
    > > > > > been any expectation of getting the visa
the
    > > > > > same day.
    > > > >
    > > > > All they, who were interviewed after 7/22/02 have thought they'll
get
    > > > > their visas on the same or in couple of days. That's why!
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > From: Morkai Kurst ([email protected]) I don't wish to get into a
    > > > > > flame war nor choose sides in an issue
    > but
    > > at
    > > > the
    > > > > > bottom of the IV15 checklist it stated:
    > > > > > III. IMPORTANT NOTE: Visa issuance is not guaranteed.
    > > > >
    > > > > That's true. And it is true for GB, France, and other European countries
    > > > > too. The main point here is the Russia, China and others were singled out
    > > > > without any prior warning.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > From: Jonathan_ATC ([email protected]) Your letter is flippant and a
    > > > > > little rude. I doubt you'll get
much
    > of
    > > a
    > > > > > response. Although, maybe Bill O'Reilly is like Howard Stern and
he
    > > > thrives
    > > > > > on such rudeness? This is definitely not a letter I would send
off
    > to
    > > > > > anyone.
    > > > >
    > > > > > Besides, everyone KNOWs that they are not issuing visas. The onus
    > is
    > > on
    > > > the
    > > > > > applicant to know this and not apply right now. Sleeping in the
    > > streets
    > > > is
    > > > > > their choice, not something mandated by the consulate. Again, we
    > > > already
    > > > > > know that they are not issuing visas. Every ONE person thinks
that
    > > > their
    > > > > > case will be the one to be approved. That is not the case, they
are
    > > > > > approving no one according to you. So, it would be pretty stupid
to
    > > try
    > > > for
    > > > > > a visa right now. Pick another girl from another catalog...
This
    > > time
    > > > > > pick a "good" country from which visas ARE being issued.
    > > > >
    > > > > O boy, here we go again. I feel sorry for you. To be polite, I'd just say
    > > > > your email sucks. It smells arrogance and total disregard
of
    > > > > feelings of your fellow Americans. Moreover, you luck critical judgement. I
    > > > > hope your wife/fiancee is not from Russia or other countries affected by this
    > > > > new policy of DOS.
    > > > >
    > > > > I'm not a lawyer to formulate as logically and grammatically and judicially
    > > > > correct as you've done or your post. But, havaing and audacity to say that
    > > > > sleeping in the streets is their choice, is the same as blaming homeless
    > > > > people for sleeping on the street by saying that it's their choice. The
    > > > > logice of all these has been suggesting that the consulate in Moscow up
    > > > > untill and including July 19, 2002, has been issuing K1/K3 visas ON THE SAME
    > > > > DAY. Reasonable people seeing this PATTERN would assume they'd get their
    > > > > visas on the same day. Though the law and embassy suggest not to have any
    > > > > travel arrangements, they would assume so.
    > > > >
    > > > > Jonathan, you sound extremely retarded by saying "Pick another girl from
    > > > > another catalog..." As a matter of fact, my fiance and I were introduced by
    > > > > my coworker, whe was her cousin three years ago. I
have
    > > > > been in communication with my now fiancee for the past three years, and I
    > > > > have visited Russia for four times. The point isn't how long
it
    > > > > did take, the point is that we both were extremely cautioous in
making
    > > > > life-commiting decisions. She has an auntie in Moscow, and she's
very
    > > > > safe at the moment, and she is in her vacation (she hasn't quited
her
    > > > > work yet). It's been three weeks already after her K1 interview.
My
    > > > > email to O'Reilly was mainly to point the fact that Moscow and
others
    > > > > have stopped the visa issuance, and the facts I brought up were actually
    > > > > anectodal evidence that anybody can confirm if they want: just go to Moscow,
    > > > > and look around the American embassy and try to talk to ladies over there...
    > > > >
    > > > > I just wonder, Mr. Jonathan, where your fiancee is from, and how you guys
    > > > > were acquainted. Why do you see getting acquainted through a catalog so
    > > > > degrading. Why you're so racist in discriminating
between
    > > > > good and bad countries? Is your loved one from a good one? Which
is
    > > > > it? Jonathan, do you speak a second language? I just wonder what sort of
    > > > > bigotry you're trying to disseminate in here. And how could you say, you're
    > > > > here to help people, when you say such things?
Shame
    > > > > on you!
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) He has contributed far more to this
    > > > > > newsgroup than you ever will. The letter you wrote was NOT a very good one.
    > > > > > If people are
sleeping
    > > on
    > > > > > the street, it is not the fault of the consulate. The comments
about
    > > > > > YOUR constitutional rights has NOTHING to do with US immigration
    > > policy.
    > > > > > While I don't fully agree with the delays, I understand that the
US
    > > > > > State Department and INS determine who immigrates to the US. It isn't about
    > > > > > your "beautiful, family oriented women" being
    > profiled
    > > as
    > > > > > terrorsts.
    > > > >
    > > > > Mr. Travel, did he pay you to say such things? It IS the fault of
the
    > > > > consulate not to warn the fiancees of a new administrative process being
    > > > > implemented. It IS the fault of the consulate that they do
not
    > > > > tell the fiancees any definite answer. They tell, call back in a
day,
    > > > > then in three days, then in a week, then in three weeks. And this
is
    > > > > on-going? It IS a direct consequence of US immigration policy, or you're
    > > > > shortsighted. Please get back to your senses, Mr. Travel.
If
    > > > > for the past years, all K1 visas were issued on the same day, would you by a
    > > > > divine revelation surmise that starting 7/22/02 they won't
be
    > > > > issued! Then, ok, you tell me, why Russia, China and others were targeted
    > > > > for this "additional administrative processing?"
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > George
    > > >
    > >

Joe \

Hey Jonathan,

I have worked with FSU women here in the US who were on a summer work program through
their college and I have met them while traveling overseas on vacation. So there are
other ways to meet FSU women besides the so-called "catalog system" you are so
against. But everyone has their opinion, be it right or wrong.

"Jonathan_ATC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:%[email protected]
.giganews.com...
    > Why, YeS! I do look upon the blind date with disdain also! How funny how you have
    > every nuance about me figured out! LOL! I would never go on a blind date nor
    > would my wife. (before being married, that is) But, that, like my comment about
    > the picking another girl from the "catalog" was just that, a passing comment.
    > I re-read my original post and do agree it may have come across
differently
    > than I expected.
    > Point: ALMOST anyone meeting a woman in the FSU has met them through some sort of
    > agency where they used a "catalog" of pictures and bio's to pick
and
    > choose whom they want to meet. Come on, they can't get visas to come
here,
    > so the USC had to find them somehow. Most didn't just start chatting in a chat
    > room or communicate via e-mail in the beginning. This is NOT how
they
    > MET.
    > My comment about finding another girl from the catalog in a "good" country was just
    > that, a passing comment. That was the reason for my comment. If
I
    > have skewed perception of how these people could have possibly met if not through a
    > service, then please correct me. All I know is that I see very little way for
    > these people to have met if not through a "catalog"
service.
    > I have seen the websites, I do know a little about the subject. You tell
    > me... how do you meet a woman from the FSU? You might not call it a catalog, you
    > might have different name for it. I see it as SICK and
AMORAL
    > to pick a mate in such a way. If you want to ridicule my belief system, feel free.
    > But my original comment was nothing more than what it was, a comment. It
in
    > no way defines who I am as a human being. You may have one idea of who I am, but I
    > am sure that others who know me have a distinctly different idea of who I am.
    > I am so sorry that some people read it wrong, but I can't take back what I said
    > now. All I can do is defend myself against the barrage of comments from people who
    > have no idea who I am, how helpful I can be and how much knowledge about the world
    > and how it works I have. So be it.
    > Good day to you, sir.
    > --
    > Jonathan_ATC "Ben Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:fB1d9.5356$6i4.381213@ne-
    > wsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net    ...
    > > Don't give yourself so much credit.....
    > >
    > > Your post was read....it was not ignored. It was not responded to, because it was
    > > obvious you were going off the
    > deep
    > > end on this. YOU foolishly implied the original poster had used a
    > > "catalog"......and
    > then
    > > have continued to create arguments to justify your rush to uninformed judgement.
    > > Your arguments about the letter to O'Reilly, were enough to
    > make
    > > your point in response to the OP.
    > >
    > > Incidentally....what makes you appear foolish with these statements, is
    > that
    > > NOBODY "picks their mate from a catalog". Personal ads have been used in the
    > > states in various forms for years....newspapers, entire magazines, etc. The
    > > internet ushered in a
    > whole
    > > new form of the world wide personal ads..... these come in various
forms,
    > > but in all of them, the parities meet and if there is spark, perhaps
they
    > > decided to get together... if not they move on. If they decide to get together,
    > > it is not either having been "picked" from a catalog. In fact......is anyone here
    > > familiar with a trend of people "picking" mates from a catalog and "ordering them
    > > (sight unseen) to the US with a
fiancée
    > > visa? (that is what you are implying is it not?.......otherwise I assume even the
    > > blind date would be seen by you with disdain.)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Jonathan_ATC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > > nrp.aus1.giganews.com    ...
    > > > Oh, Jonathan starts to make sense and we ignore the post. When you
were
    > > > still misunderstanding my post, you all wanted to join the attack on
me.
    > > So
    > > > be it. I know who to ignore now.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Jonathan_ATC "Jonathan_ATC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:UDLc9.246282$Aw-
    > > > [email protected]    ...
    > > > > George...
    > > > >
    > > > > I think you and everyone else has misconstrued what I said. I don't
    > > need
    > > > to
    > > > > defend myself or my comments. However, I will say that I DO harbor
    > > > disdain
    > > > > for those who pick their mates from a catalog. I can't help it.
That
    > > is
    > > > > how I was raised, we don't pick our mates from a catalog. I met my wife at a
    > > > > US University. Like normal people. hahaha! Not
    > > from
    > > > a
    > > > > catalog. I speak some French. Not agreeing with people picking mates from a
    > > > > catalog does in no way
    > > make
    > > > me
    > > > > a bigot or a racist. Countries which it is hard or impossible to get a visa
    > > > > from ARE
"bad"
    > > > > countries. Countries where it is easy to get a visa from are "good"
    > > > > countries. My comments only had to do with what INS thinks, not my
    > > > personal
    > > > > feelings. I don't think one or another country is bad or good, just
    > > that
    > > > if
    > > > > you want to be married soon, you don't pick a girl from a catalog
that
    > > is
    > > > in
    > > > > a "bad" country, or if you do, you wait and wait and wait.
    > > > >
    > > > > Hope this sets things straight. It is so odd that people take
offense
    > > to
    > > > > what I said, it was not written to be offensive. Me thinks some
    > people
    > > > have
    > > > > their heads up their a$$ on this subject.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Jonathan_ATC "George F." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:854d2917.0209020144.2-
    > > > > [email protected]    ...
    > > > > > Folks, I'd like to reply some of the replies to my original post.
    > I'm
    > > > > > sorry if it's a little bit late.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) Why are many of them "sleeping on
    > > > > > > the streets"? Why didn't they go home? With the cost of rent in most of
Russia,
    > > > there
    > > > > > > is no reason for this "sleeping on the streets" There should have never
    > > > > > > been any expectation of getting the visa
    > the
    > > > > > > same day.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > All they, who were interviewed after 7/22/02 have thought they'll
    > get
    > > > > > their visas on the same or in couple of days. That's why!
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > From: Morkai Kurst ([email protected]) I don't wish to get into
    > > > > > > a flame war nor choose sides in an
issue
    > > but
    > > > at
    > > > > the
    > > > > > > bottom of the IV15 checklist it stated:
    > > > > > > III. IMPORTANT NOTE: Visa issuance is not guaranteed.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > That's true. And it is true for GB, France, and other European countries
    > > > > > too. The main point here is the Russia, China and
others
    > > > > > were singled out without any prior warning.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > From: Jonathan_ATC ([email protected]) Your letter is flippant and a
    > > > > > > little rude. I doubt you'll get
    > much
    > > of
    > > > a
    > > > > > > response. Although, maybe Bill O'Reilly is like Howard Stern
and
    > he
    > > > > thrives
    > > > > > > on such rudeness? This is definitely not a letter I would send
    > off
    > > to
    > > > > > > anyone.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > Besides, everyone KNOWs that they are not issuing visas. The
onus
    > > is
    > > > on
    > > > > the
    > > > > > > applicant to know this and not apply right now. Sleeping in the
    > > > streets
    > > > > is
    > > > > > > their choice, not something mandated by the consulate. Again,
we
    > > > > already
    > > > > > > know that they are not issuing visas. Every ONE person thinks
    > that
    > > > > their
    > > > > > > case will be the one to be approved. That is not the case, they
    > are
    > > > > > > approving no one according to you. So, it would be pretty
stupid
    > to
    > > > try
    > > > > for
    > > > > > > a visa right now. Pick another girl from another catalog...
    > This
    > > > time
    > > > > > > pick a "good" country from which visas ARE being issued.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > O boy, here we go again. I feel sorry for you. To be polite, I'd just say
    > > > > > your email sucks. It smells arrogance and total
disregard
    > of
    > > > > > feelings of your fellow Americans. Moreover, you luck critical judgement.
    > > > > > I hope your wife/fiancee is not from Russia or other countries affected by
    > > > > > this new policy of DOS.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I'm not a lawyer to formulate as logically and grammatically and
    > > > > > judicially correct as you've done or your post. But, havaing and audacity
    > > > > > to say that sleeping in the streets is their choice, is
the
    > > > > > same as blaming homeless people for sleeping on the street by
saying
    > > > > > that it's their choice. The logice of all these has been
suggesting
    > > > > > that the consulate in Moscow up untill and including July 19,
2002,
    > > > > > has been issuing K1/K3 visas ON THE SAME DAY. Reasonable people seeing
    > > > > > this PATTERN would assume they'd get their visas on the
same
    > > > > > day. Though the law and embassy suggest not to have any travel
    > > > > > arrangements, they would assume so.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Jonathan, you sound extremely retarded by saying "Pick another
girl
    > > > > > from another catalog..." As a matter of fact, my fiance and I
were
    > > > > > introduced by my coworker, whe was her cousin three years ago. I
    > have
    > > > > > been in communication with my now fiancee for the past three
years,
    > > > > > and I have visited Russia for four times. The point isn't how
long
    > it
    > > > > > did take, the point is that we both were extremely cautioous in
    > making
    > > > > > life-commiting decisions. She has an auntie in Moscow, and she's
    > very
    > > > > > safe at the moment, and she is in her vacation (she hasn't quited
    > her
    > > > > > work yet). It's been three weeks already after her K1 interview.
    > My
    > > > > > email to O'Reilly was mainly to point the fact that Moscow and
    > others
    > > > > > have stopped the visa issuance, and the facts I brought up were actually
    > > > > > anectodal evidence that anybody can confirm if they want: just go to
    > > > > > Moscow, and look around the American embassy and try to talk to ladies over
    > > > > > there...
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I just wonder, Mr. Jonathan, where your fiancee is from, and how
you
    > > > > > guys were acquainted. Why do you see getting acquainted through a catalog
    > > > > > so degrading. Why you're so racist in discriminating
    > between
    > > > > > good and bad countries? Is your loved one from a good one? Which
    > is
    > > > > > it? Jonathan, do you speak a second language? I just wonder what sort of
    > > > > > bigotry you're trying to disseminate in here. And how
could
    > > > > > you say, you're here to help people, when you say such things?
    > Shame
    > > > > > on you!
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > From: mrtravel ([email protected]) He has contributed far more to
    > > > > > > this newsgroup than you ever
will.
    > > > > > > The letter you wrote was NOT a very good one. If people are
    > sleeping
    > > > on
    > > > > > > the street, it is not the fault of the consulate. The comments
    > about
    > > > > > > YOUR constitutional rights has NOTHING to do with US immigration
    > > > policy.
    > > > > > > While I don't fully agree with the delays, I understand that the
    > US
    > > > > > > State Department and INS determine who immigrates to the US. It isn't
    > > > > > > about your "beautiful, family oriented women" being
    > > profiled
    > > > as
    > > > > > > terrorsts.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Mr. Travel, did he pay you to say such things? It IS the fault of
    > the
    > > > > > consulate not to warn the fiancees of a new administrative process being
    > > > > > implemented. It IS the fault of the consulate that they do
    > not
    > > > > > tell the fiancees any definite answer. They tell, call back in a
    > day,
    > > > > > then in three days, then in a week, then in three weeks. And this
    > is
    > > > > > on-going? It IS a direct consequence of US immigration policy, or you're
    > > > > > shortsighted. Please get back to your senses, Mr. Travel.
    > If
    > > > > > for the past years, all K1 visas were issued on the same day,
would
    > > > > > you by a divine revelation surmise that starting 7/22/02 they
won't
    > be
    > > > > > issued! Then, ok, you tell me, why Russia, China and others were targeted
    > > > > > for this "additional administrative processing?"
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > George
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

George F.

Jonathan,

Could you, please, do a favor to yourself, me, and the rest of this group. Please go
to www.emode.com, and then click on inteligence IQ
Test, please.

You just simply DO NOT understand what I and others have been saying in our posts.

There is no CATALOG, my "friend," nada, zero, zilch... I was introduced to my
fiancee through her cousin who also is my cowerker!!!

You do not speak any foreign language fluently, that's a good indication that very
likely your grandparents were born here. Your xenophobia is striking, how could you
live with a wife from a foreign country? On the contrary, I think your thinking is
very likely key to the way you picked up your wife. Those catalogs probably ask you
some characteristics, and then point to a right country. That's called
provintialism! When peeople fall in love they do not do it by exerting any mental
pressure on themselves or meditating. It just happens, and one day you found out
you're in love. Wouldn't that be nice, to ask a computer, please find a love for me
from one of "good" countries from which I can get my future fiance within 3-4 month
without any hassles. The comp would say: "dear jonathan, our database did find a
match: look for your love in GB, France, or Germany." Then our little boy Jonathan
goes there and hangs out in pubs, and finds his love. And then, they live happy ever
after... etc.... nice story ah...

good luck with your "good" country love...

bye, George