tparrent

So we've been waiting a long time for packet 3 to arrive even after Guangzhou said they sent it (and THAT took over 2 months!). Today I pulled out the original application filed with the INS. Filed by my attorney.

Guess what? Question 17 was left blank. That's where he was supposed to write my fiancee's address in "native alphabet" meaning Chinese. I distinctly remembering him saying "Don't worry, I'll do that" after I gave him the signed copy. &*%*%&^$&^$&^^&#%$&%* Guess he forgot.

I know I should have proofed the fax he sent me after filing. My fault there.

This little oversight could cost us up to TWO MONTHS in the process because the packet is apparently on its long, uncertain journey to Chicago rather than Beijing. No problem, I'll just call the consulate and explain, right? Not Guangzhou. Apparently they don't answer their phones anymore. I have called over 200 times in the past three days and have been disconnected each time.

Don't let this happen to you. Proofread everything and TRUST NO ONE but yourself.

Given that my attorney had ONE responsibility and that was to fill out the form properly, I am going to ask for my money back. How many people think I will see that $1,000 again?

Matthew Udall

Hmm, not sure what sort of agreement you had with your attorney, but filling out the forms is only the first part of any immigration job. There are other tasks that I do with a case after the forms are filled out (but you are correct [in the subject line of your posting]; one should always proof read the data on the forms when signing).

Two months between case approval and arrival of packet 3 from Guangzhou is nothing out of the ordinary (even when line 17 “is� filled out). I've had some luck getting Guangzhou to open a provisional file (but they always say first that they only do that in an emergency or under other special conditions). But with the correct communication with them (and I've found that the timing of this communication is very important) provisional files are opened and packet 3's are sent. It helps them quite a bit if you supply via fax (have your fiancée do this) her address written in Chinese characters.

As far as the attorney filling out line 17 for you, does he write Chinese? I don't, so what I do is have the petitioner send over the I-129f to the Chinese fiancée at the same time he sends over the G-325A for her signature(s) (she also signs her declaration too and sends this back). Since she has to sign the G-325A and her declaration (intent to marry), might as well have "her" fill out line 17 too.

Well, it's midnight and it’s been a long day at the office. I’ve got a lot of work ahead of me for tomorrow, so its time to go home.

Regards,
Matthew Udall
Attorney
http://members.aol.com/MDUdall/fiancee.htm

jeninifer

Our attorney made a little faux pas, too, but it was quickly taken care of and she truly felt sorry for her mistake.

She paid the fees out of the company's escrow account not remembering that the law had changed and only money orders could be sent.

They had already begun processing, so they sent it back and she corrected her mistake. We might have been put back 7 days.

She was very apologetic and has ultimately been very thorough.

Our $1800 fee includes everything until Philip has been granted citizenship. I'm pleased with her and, most importantly, I trust her.

Good luck with your situation. Hopefully it won't be quite two months!

tparrent

I know the two months is not unusual. The problem is that we could be set back an ADDITIONAL two months because of this.

The Lawyer and his staff are all American educated, Chinese born- that is one of the reasons I chose him. I figured it would help solve any language problems that might arise.

I realize that I should have stood there until the last line as filled out - I'm not being sarcastic, I truly do believe that - that's why I am imploring others to proofread carefullly.

Everyone, it seems, hits a few bumps along the slow road to immigration. The Nebraska/Guangzhou/careless lawyer (& client) route just have bigger bumps.

Thankfully, our only problem is time. We do not have any of the far more serious issues facing many people on this board.

If patience is a virtue, my fiancee is a goddess. Heck, she's a goddess anyway!

amys

Don't let this happen to you. Proofread everything and TRUST NO ONE but yourself.

Given that my attorney had ONE responsibility and that was to fill out the form properly, I am going to ask for my money back. How many people think I will see that $1,000 again?


I don't think you will get your money back. Sorry. Our first lawyer was horrible, spent almost $2000. The first lawyer we had was basically useless. We had to do all the legwork and things were not done correctly. We had to fix alot of things ourselves. We could have done it ourselves. Ours was simple to fill and submit. Plus our lawyer was not experienced to deal with difficult consulates like mumbai. We should have went to a lawyer (allen kaye) who is well experienced in the first place.

Word of advice---make sure your lawyer is experience and knows how to deal with difficult consulates. Also, ask how many times they have prepared fiance/spousal visas before. Get references.

amy

Folinskyinla

Hi:

There is no "law" that says you have to pay with money orders. I pay with my firm trust account checks all the time and there is no problem.

If fact, I recommend against use of money orders because you loose the ability to track them to see if they have been cashed.

abba48uk

tparent
- your attorney screwed up badly
- you wont get a red cent back
- you are not the first and wont be the last to employ an incompetent
- the day I see Matt Udall concede that any attorney might (just might)! have screwed up will be marked in my diary in red ink.........lol

jeninifer

I wonder if it's possible for different service centers to have different rules?

There was a letter that accompanied the returned documents and it clearly stated that funds must be sent by money order and that checks were no longer accepted.

It's no wonder they have problems keeping things straight if they're all going by different rules!

Thanks for the info

Matthew Udall

What I would do is have your attorney (or you, or your fiancee do this) contact the Consulate when the petition is approved at the Service Center. I always fax the Consulates a copy of the approval notice, a copy of the G-28, and a cover letter from me asking them to open a provisional file and dispatch packet 3. In the cover letter, your attorney could tell them of the omission of her address in Chinese characters on line 17 (just so there won't be any confusion), and in that cover letter, give them her complete mailing address in Chinese characters (I always do this with my cover letters for my faxes to Guangzhou, but even though I do this, it always seems to help when the beneficiary does this too... having her address in Chinese characters helps the mail room staff in Guangzhou do their job).

I also ship a complete attorney certified copy set of the entire submission to the Consulate, along with another attorney certified copy of the approval notice, with another request for them to open a provisional file and dispatch packet 3 if they did not do so upon receipt of my fax (and if they are willing to do so), and when I’m sending this shipment to Guangzhou, I again give her mailing address in Chinese characters right on the cover letter accompanying the shipment.

Good luck.

M.U.

Matthew Udall

Hi Abba, time to grab your diary and red pen. I don't think there is any question that this attorney should have listed that information on line 17 (especially if he or she told the client he or she would take care of this).

The effect of this omission and how to minimize its effect is also an important issue.

Hey, attorneys make mistakes. This type of work is “extremely� detail oriented. Just having a license to practice law does not make one knowledgeable when it comes to certain types of cases. Experience is key, not a license hanging on the wall :-). I've personally processed hundreds of fiancée cases now (my main type of work) and I've seen just about every INS and/or Consulate screw up (and know how to deal with them), just about every weird client fact pattern (and how to best deal with that to try to keep a potential problem from turning into an actual problem), and the quirks or various policies/procedures and how to best deal with them at all of the Service Centers and most of the Consulates.

And I can tell you that when I did my first few fiancée cases, I knew a lot less about this type of case than I do now, and the way I prepared and submitted my most recent fiancée petition submission was a heck of a lot different than the way I prepared my very first fiancée petition submission. In fact, my very first fiancée submission got an RFE and this is the only RFE that I’ve ever received that I think was my fault [didn’t give enough evidence of them meeting within the past 2 years]… the other 2 or 3 that have come up in my hundreds of fiancée submissions were all for things that were originally given to the Service Center, but lost by them. Each case, whether it’s smooth sailing or a rocky road, is a learning experience.

And I still learn something from time to time (just learned a heck of a lot recently about the procedures in Manila now that they've gone back to doing interviews for fiancée cases... feedback from a case that just went through there).

Its like any profession, the less experience you have, the more likely mistakes will be made, but mistakes can also be made by the most experienced out there. After all, we are all human.

M.U.

abba48uk

Absolutely right Matt .........(putting down red pen). There are good attorneys, average attorneys and bad attorneys........just like any other profession.......we have nothing to disagree on there.

Fflewddar

I'm curious about the lawyers who help you with the immigration
stuff...

What exactly do they do/help you with besides filing out the forms? Do
they speed up the process any? Is there a bigger reason why people
hire one?
Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions..I'm just new to all of this

-Fflewddar

salooni110

hey guys, i hired an attorney for the k3 because my husbands case could get icky. anywayz i asked my lawyer if she would send in the original wedding pictures i gave her, but she said no she would send in photocopies of the pics. is that ok? i thought u were supposed to send original pics.

Matthew Udall

I try to spot any potential problems due to the client's particular facts, and try to come up with a plan to reduce the odds that any potential problem becomes an actual problem issue. I try to do what I can to make sure a case is documented well, but not engage in overkill as I want to avoid an RFE but I also want it to be a breeze for the officer to adjudicate once he or she has been given the case to adjudicate. Believe it or not, the INS and/or Consulates can and do screw up or make some sort of mistake along the way, and when that happens, I go to bat for the client (at no additional cost) to try to resolve the problem. I find that most INS officers, and Consular officers are reasonable people who will respond to polite, professional, logical communication. Then there is the act of doing the actual work of preparing and submitting the case, and being there to answer the clients questions that always come up along the way. Also, the Service Centers (and district offices in the AOS context) should usually send important correspondence (such as receipt notices, approval notices, appointment letters, etc.) to both the attorney and the client, however they sometimes don't send it to the client or they do and it just never shows up to the client's address. In that situation, the fact that the attorney also received this important correspondence provides a nice safety net for the client. This is not everything an attorney can bring to a particular case, but are some of the things that do come to mind.

I change a flat rate fee for someone who hires me from the outset. Not so for someone who wants me to jump in the middle of a case they filed themselves (I charge an hourly rate in that situation). I generally won't agree to jump in for a few reasons, the most important being that before I can sign my name to a case, I must examine every bit of information that was listed on all of the forms, look at every bit of evidence that was submitted, get to know the clients facts/history to spot potential problems, etc. I would be just as responsible for a do-it-yourselfer’s case (that I jumped into somewhere along the way), as one I prepared from the outset. Also, it would end up costing the client about as much for me to do the background work necessary before I would be willing to sign my name onto the case (I'm talking about jumping into the middle of a do-it-yourselfers case) as it would if he or she had come to me at the outset and had me do all of the work for them at my flat rate fee. And I usually find that most people who want me to jump into the middle have a messed up case, which naturally would require lots of time to resolve (but hey, at an hourly rate, I guess I wouldn’t mind), however when someone comes to me at the outset at my flat rate, my incentive is to try to get that case through the system as quickly as possible by doing every thing I can to make that happen, and do the job right the first time (and quickly jump on INS or the Consulate if they screw up). I try to keep the case from getting off track, rather than focusing on fixing a messed up case that someone brings to me. But hey, that’s just me.

I know there is one person who has posted that he will only hire an attorney if the INS screws up his case. If I were a do-it-yourselfer (and did not see it from an attorney perspective) I would agree that this seems like a reasonable approach, however as I’ve explained from an attorneys perspective, I’d most likely decline that case if offered to me, to jump into once its been messed up (although I will take one from time to time… just not likely as it would cost the client too much, in my opinion) although I’m sure there are other attorneys out there willing to take his money to see what they could do to fix a messed up case.

It’s just a perspective thing. Some attorneys focus on the back end of a case (representing someone in removal proceedings, for example) while I’ve chosen to focus on the front end to try to keep people out of trouble and get them through the system as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

M.U.