Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
Mar 15th 2010, 3:35 pm
#16
BE Commentator
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,427
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
Folinsky, thanks for your input.
The reason I called USCIS was to find out if it was accurate that a CBP officer could withdraw my GC and effectively terminate my PR on the spot. Obviously, I was concerned after this ‘run in’ having only just got my PR (Jan 30th)! Initially he (CBP at the border) was stating that it would cause me problems when I tried to remove my GC conditions and he stated that it could appear to be marriage fraud (his exact words were “You have to understand the US has a high number of marriage frauds”). After a bit more back and forth discussion, I admit I got a littler ‘bothered’ by him that’s when he made it clear that my GC could be taken away without notice?! My argument was that I was maintaining employment in Canada whilst actively looking for work in the US. I have a good income in Canada but I work in a niche market so finding employment in Minnesota is unlikely to be a quick process. I figured if I had to, when it comes time to remove my conditions I can provide evidence of the fact that I was pursuing employment in the US as soon as I received my PR (and before).
As a PR, I figured that I must have rights and this couldn’t be correct so when I phoned USCIS I was put through to a ‘Senior Customer Services’ agent who told me he was correct and what I was doing was ‘void’ – her words…..not mine…
I didn’t consult with a lawyer because after speaking with the USCIS agent I figured it was a closed case and there was little point spending the money for a lawyer to tell me the same thing…
The reason I called USCIS was to find out if it was accurate that a CBP officer could withdraw my GC and effectively terminate my PR on the spot. Obviously, I was concerned after this ‘run in’ having only just got my PR (Jan 30th)! Initially he (CBP at the border) was stating that it would cause me problems when I tried to remove my GC conditions and he stated that it could appear to be marriage fraud (his exact words were “You have to understand the US has a high number of marriage frauds”). After a bit more back and forth discussion, I admit I got a littler ‘bothered’ by him that’s when he made it clear that my GC could be taken away without notice?! My argument was that I was maintaining employment in Canada whilst actively looking for work in the US. I have a good income in Canada but I work in a niche market so finding employment in Minnesota is unlikely to be a quick process. I figured if I had to, when it comes time to remove my conditions I can provide evidence of the fact that I was pursuing employment in the US as soon as I received my PR (and before).
As a PR, I figured that I must have rights and this couldn’t be correct so when I phoned USCIS I was put through to a ‘Senior Customer Services’ agent who told me he was correct and what I was doing was ‘void’ – her words…..not mine…
I didn’t consult with a lawyer because after speaking with the USCIS agent I figured it was a closed case and there was little point spending the money for a lawyer to tell me the same thing…
You are correct that the government lies to you are pretty much "closed." Nonetheless, you are contemplating changing your future activities. Your posts can be read as if you intend to do this in reaction to being lied to.
You are free to consult or not consult with a lawyer on this.
Personally, I am upset that you have been abused and lied to by government officials who should know better.
This is a personal vent. No advice given nor intended.
Mar 15th 2010, 3:36 pm
#17
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
M,
Point of clarification - I don't know if the CBP officer was correct or not, but based on what the OP wrote I can understand the why the CBP officer is questioning the situation.
It remains to be seen whether that CBP officer or any other takes an action that is appropriate in regards to the concern.
Regards, JEff
Point of clarification - I don't know if the CBP officer was correct or not, but based on what the OP wrote I can understand the why the CBP officer is questioning the situation.
It remains to be seen whether that CBP officer or any other takes an action that is appropriate in regards to the concern.
Regards, JEff
Mar 15th 2010, 3:43 pm
#18
BE Commentator
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,427
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
Observation, the CBP officer is supposed to know. I see nothing that cause that jerk to abuse the OP. I see nothing that would even raise a question. What do you see that would raise a question?
Mar 15th 2010, 3:57 pm
#19
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
M,
Are you sure about that? It seems that Antstar may very well have spoken with a USCIS employee, not a 1st level contract employee.
Agreed, USCIS does not speak for CBP, and any given USCIS employee may not correctly know the law any better than we do.
Regards, JEff
Are you sure about that? It seems that Antstar may very well have spoken with a USCIS employee, not a 1st level contract employee.
Agreed, USCIS does not speak for CBP, and any given USCIS employee may not correctly know the law any better than we do.
Regards, JEff
Mar 15th 2010, 4:03 pm
#20
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
The OP's living pattern has not changed from what it was prior to becoming a US Permanent Resident, when he was resident in Canada not the USA. To all appearances he is still resident in Canada and has yet to take up residence in the USA. (And he tells us that the appearance is correct - he has not yet changed his place of residence from Canada to the USA.)
I expect that with appropriate legal advice he could successful challenge appearances, and would stop saying things that are counter to his interests.
Regards, JEff
I expect that with appropriate legal advice he could successful challenge appearances, and would stop saying things that are counter to his interests.
Regards, JEff
Mar 15th 2010, 4:27 pm
#21
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 142
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
Jeff,
Point of clarification, I have never been a ‘resident’ of Canada. I previously had a two year temporary work visa and I am now on a Bunac working holiday visa (although I have worked for the same employer the whole time). I don’t rent or own accommodation in Canada nor do I have any personal belonging here except for clothes and books. I also have no ties to Canada as far as family goes.
I don’t believe I have said anything “counter to my interests” I simply answered the questions I was asked by the CBP Officer honestly. He asked what I was doing in Canada, I answered “working”, he asked me why my wife wasn’t with me, I said “because she has a job in Minnesota” and this is when the marriage fraud conversation started. You have to see this from my point of view, before when I used to travel to the US (prior to obtaining PR) I was told it looked suspicious that I was taking regular short trips and it could be interpreted that I was trying to establish a life in the US and that one day I simply wouldn’t return to Canada. Now, having PR I’m told it could be taken as marriage fraud. This is the reason I started to get a bit pee’d of during my discussion with the guy, it feels like you can’t win with these guys.
Point of clarification, I have never been a ‘resident’ of Canada. I previously had a two year temporary work visa and I am now on a Bunac working holiday visa (although I have worked for the same employer the whole time). I don’t rent or own accommodation in Canada nor do I have any personal belonging here except for clothes and books. I also have no ties to Canada as far as family goes.
I don’t believe I have said anything “counter to my interests” I simply answered the questions I was asked by the CBP Officer honestly. He asked what I was doing in Canada, I answered “working”, he asked me why my wife wasn’t with me, I said “because she has a job in Minnesota” and this is when the marriage fraud conversation started. You have to see this from my point of view, before when I used to travel to the US (prior to obtaining PR) I was told it looked suspicious that I was taking regular short trips and it could be interpreted that I was trying to establish a life in the US and that one day I simply wouldn’t return to Canada. Now, having PR I’m told it could be taken as marriage fraud. This is the reason I started to get a bit pee’d of during my discussion with the guy, it feels like you can’t win with these guys.
Mar 15th 2010, 4:43 pm
#22
Wondering if...
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Clarence, NY
Posts: 1,214
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
I suspect it was a different story?
Mar 15th 2010, 4:52 pm
#23
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 142
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
I'm not sure of your point. Everything I told the guy was the truth, regardless of the fact I was getting a bit upset with the line of questioning. I simply tried to reason with the guy that surely an employeed PR working in Canada sending his money to his wife was better than an unemployed PR living in America.
I hide my emotions well, it's required in my line of work so I'm talking about how I felt, not how I responded to the CBP or my actions.
I hide my emotions well, it's required in my line of work so I'm talking about how I felt, not how I responded to the CBP or my actions.
Mar 15th 2010, 5:01 pm
#24
Wondering if...
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Clarence, NY
Posts: 1,214
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
I'm not sure of your point. Everything I told the guy was the truth, regardless of the fact I was getting a bit upset with the line of questioning. I simply tried to reason with the guy that surely an employeed PR working in Canada sending his money to his wife was better than an unemployed PR living in America.
I hide my emotions well, it's required in my line of work so I'm talking about how I felt, not how I responded to the CBP or my actions.
I hide my emotions well, it's required in my line of work so I'm talking about how I felt, not how I responded to the CBP or my actions.
Whether you told the truth or not, it is all about attitude and demeanor. And only too often telling an authority person the truth is a big problem if they don't have the same view. Been there. Repeatedly.
With such individuals they are right, even when they are wrong.
I suspect that didn't go down well...
Mar 15th 2010, 5:06 pm
#25
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
A,
You did say, "Guess I will just have to suck it up and move to the US this month" You have to be moving from someplace that is not the USA, if not from Canada then the UK?
I'm not sure how you're using the term 'resident' - by a dictionary definition, as used in the US INA, as used by Canadian immigration law, or something else. By whatever definition, up until you became a US Permanent Resident you were not resident in the USA, and since you became a US Permanent Resident you are supposed to be. And since you became a US Permanent Resident it seems that you have not changed your living arrangements from whatever it is that they were before.
You may not rent or own accomodation in Canada, but you must have been parking your limited belongings and body somewhere. And you say or imply that that somewhere was Canada.
I'm not trying to argue with you, I am trying to point out that you might need to be more careful in how you present your situation if you want to create the impression that you want to create - the impression that you have taken up residence in the USA
Regards, JEff
You did say, "Guess I will just have to suck it up and move to the US this month" You have to be moving from someplace that is not the USA, if not from Canada then the UK?
I'm not sure how you're using the term 'resident' - by a dictionary definition, as used in the US INA, as used by Canadian immigration law, or something else. By whatever definition, up until you became a US Permanent Resident you were not resident in the USA, and since you became a US Permanent Resident you are supposed to be. And since you became a US Permanent Resident it seems that you have not changed your living arrangements from whatever it is that they were before.
You may not rent or own accomodation in Canada, but you must have been parking your limited belongings and body somewhere. And you say or imply that that somewhere was Canada.
I'm not trying to argue with you, I am trying to point out that you might need to be more careful in how you present your situation if you want to create the impression that you want to create - the impression that you have taken up residence in the USA
Regards, JEff
Last edited by jeffreyhy; Mar 15th 2010 at 5:10 pm.
Mar 15th 2010, 5:37 pm
#26
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 142
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
I understand where you are coming from but I was asked very direct, simple questions, i.e. "What were you doing in Canada?", "How long were you there?", "Do you work for an American company?", etc...
I could quite easily have said to the first question "visiting friends" but it would have been a misleading response and as I stated before, I wasn't expecting any problems now I have my PR status. I certainly wasn't expecting to have the guy tell me he could take my GC from me.
My understanding was that providing my length of time outside the US wasn't beyond 6 months and that I filed a US tax return (which I did) and I didn't commit any crimes (which I haven't) that I should be free to travel and work so I can support my family. He made a valid point that I shouln't have 'activated' my green card until I was ready to stay full-time in the US but again, no-one indicated that my employment situation would be a problem so I merrily went on my way and activated it on my trip in Jan.....As a side note, the guy who accepted my immigrant packet when I 'activated' my GC (or PR) looked at my Canadian work visa and didn't say a word about it!? The expiry date is clearly on there and he could see it was still valid?!
I could quite easily have said to the first question "visiting friends" but it would have been a misleading response and as I stated before, I wasn't expecting any problems now I have my PR status. I certainly wasn't expecting to have the guy tell me he could take my GC from me.
My understanding was that providing my length of time outside the US wasn't beyond 6 months and that I filed a US tax return (which I did) and I didn't commit any crimes (which I haven't) that I should be free to travel and work so I can support my family. He made a valid point that I shouln't have 'activated' my green card until I was ready to stay full-time in the US but again, no-one indicated that my employment situation would be a problem so I merrily went on my way and activated it on my trip in Jan.....As a side note, the guy who accepted my immigrant packet when I 'activated' my GC (or PR) looked at my Canadian work visa and didn't say a word about it!? The expiry date is clearly on there and he could see it was still valid?!
Mar 15th 2010, 5:43 pm
#27
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
While you're about it, make sure you record all your trips now -- you'll need them if you ever decide to naturalize.
Mar 15th 2010, 5:50 pm
#28
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 142
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
already on it fatbrit (I feel rude saying that?!)...I signed up as a frequent flyer with Delta so they have a very easily accessible record of my trips which I can just print out......
Mar 15th 2010, 5:57 pm
#29
BE Commentator
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,427
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
I understand where you are coming from but I was asked very direct, simple questions, i.e. "What were you doing in Canada?", "How long were you there?", "Do you work for an American company?", etc...
I could quite easily have said to the first question "visiting friends" but it would have been a misleading response and as I stated before, I wasn't expecting any problems now I have my PR status. I certainly wasn't expecting to have the guy tell me he could take my GC from me.
My understanding was that providing my length of time outside the US wasn't beyond 6 months and that I filed a US tax return (which I did) and I didn't commit any crimes (which I haven't) that I should be free to travel and work so I can support my family. He made a valid point that I shouln't have 'activated' my green card until I was ready to stay full-time in the US but again, no-one indicated that my employment situation would be a problem so I merrily went on my way and activated it on my trip in Jan.....As a side note, the guy who accepted my immigrant packet when I 'activated' my GC (or PR) looked at my Canadian work visa and didn't say a word about it!? The expiry date is clearly on there and he could see it was still valid?!
I could quite easily have said to the first question "visiting friends" but it would have been a misleading response and as I stated before, I wasn't expecting any problems now I have my PR status. I certainly wasn't expecting to have the guy tell me he could take my GC from me.
My understanding was that providing my length of time outside the US wasn't beyond 6 months and that I filed a US tax return (which I did) and I didn't commit any crimes (which I haven't) that I should be free to travel and work so I can support my family. He made a valid point that I shouln't have 'activated' my green card until I was ready to stay full-time in the US but again, no-one indicated that my employment situation would be a problem so I merrily went on my way and activated it on my trip in Jan.....As a side note, the guy who accepted my immigrant packet when I 'activated' my GC (or PR) looked at my Canadian work visa and didn't say a word about it!? The expiry date is clearly on there and he could see it was still valid?!
Observation: 8 CFR 235.3(b)(5)(ii) is of interest. The Cossack at the border thinks he can summarily exclude a person with a green card in hand? Sorry, the regulation states that the examining officer "shall not" use the summary exlusion procedures.
Memory: My late friend Monica Stoltze took exception to a suggestion that compared the power of the border examiners to those of the Gestapo after the 1996 enactments. She considered that extremely insulting -- to the Gestapo. The Gestapo followed the rules. We may not have approved of their rules, but they followed them.
Further vent. No advice given nor intended.
Mar 15th 2010, 6:03 pm
#30
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 142
Re: Conditional Green Card and working abroad - My rights?
Once again, thanks Folinsky. Maybe that's all I should say from now on to the CBP guys "I have a green card", "I have a green card!!"...... 
I'll let you know how that works out for me....
I'll let you know how that works out for me....