Argh, another amensty program brewing
Dec 10th 2003, 12:32 pm
#1
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Argh, another amensty program brewing
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<p class="storytext">I guess immigration law means nothing. From
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105419,00.html">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105419,00.html</a><br>
</p>
<hr size="2" width="100%"><b>WASHINGTON — Homeland Security Secretary <strong>Tom
Ridge</strong>'s (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...kw=Tom%20Ridge"
target="_blank">search</a>) expression of support for giving legal
status to immigrants drew congressional criticism Wednesday but
heartened advocates.</b>
<p class="storytext">At a town hall meeting in Miami, Ridge said the
country needs to "come
to grips" with an estimated 8 million to 12 million illegal immigrants
and "determine how you can legalize their presence." He also said
during a visit to Florida on Tuesday that the immigrants should not be
rewarded citizenship. </p>
<p class="storytext"> <b>Asa Hutchinson</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...a%20Hutchinson"
target="_blank">search</a>),
undersecretary for border and transportation security, said Wednesday
in Miami that Ridge's comments simply reflected the debate in Congress
on immigration. </p>
<p class="storytext">"Secretary Ridge addressed it very honestly
yesterday, engaged in that
debate, but clearly this administration has not taken a firm policy
position on that and the debate continues," Hutchinson said. </p>
<p class="storytext">But Rep. J.D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., said it was
"inconceivable to me that
Secretary Ridge is speaking for the Bush administration when he
unilaterally and offhandedly suggests such a radical policy reversal
that is guaranteed to encounter strong opposition in Congress." </p>
<p class="storytext"> The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, slowed talks about
whether to legalize millions of illegal immigrants in the country. </p>
<p class="storytext">Ridge's words excited immigration advocates and
one of Hayworth's House
colleague, Rep. Jeff Flake, who is sponsoring legislation that would
give legal residency to illegal immigrants through work. </p>
<p class="storytext">"Those who are working here illegally need to be
here under a legal
framework. Secretary Ridge also understands that this needs to be
coupled with serious workplace enforcement," said Flake, R-Ariz. </p>
<p class="storytext"> Judy Golub, senior policy and outreach director
for <b>American Immigration Lawyers Association</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...%20Association"
target="_blank">search</a>),
said she thought it was the first time that a top administration
official had made "such a clear articulation of the fact that these
folks are not threats and deserve some form of legal status." </p>
<p class="storytext"> Cecilia Munoz, vice president of policy for <b>National
Council of La Raza</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...of%20La%20Raza"
target="_blank">search</a>), said Ridge's comments broke two years of
silence by the administration on the legalization issue.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Windows: Just another pane in the glass.<br>
</p>
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<p class="storytext">I guess immigration law means nothing. From
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105419,00.html">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105419,00.html</a><br>
</p>
<hr size="2" width="100%"><b>WASHINGTON — Homeland Security Secretary <strong>Tom
Ridge</strong>'s (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...kw=Tom%20Ridge"
target="_blank">search</a>) expression of support for giving legal
status to immigrants drew congressional criticism Wednesday but
heartened advocates.</b>
<p class="storytext">At a town hall meeting in Miami, Ridge said the
country needs to "come
to grips" with an estimated 8 million to 12 million illegal immigrants
and "determine how you can legalize their presence." He also said
during a visit to Florida on Tuesday that the immigrants should not be
rewarded citizenship. </p>
<p class="storytext"> <b>Asa Hutchinson</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...a%20Hutchinson"
target="_blank">search</a>),
undersecretary for border and transportation security, said Wednesday
in Miami that Ridge's comments simply reflected the debate in Congress
on immigration. </p>
<p class="storytext">"Secretary Ridge addressed it very honestly
yesterday, engaged in that
debate, but clearly this administration has not taken a firm policy
position on that and the debate continues," Hutchinson said. </p>
<p class="storytext">But Rep. J.D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., said it was
"inconceivable to me that
Secretary Ridge is speaking for the Bush administration when he
unilaterally and offhandedly suggests such a radical policy reversal
that is guaranteed to encounter strong opposition in Congress." </p>
<p class="storytext"> The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, slowed talks about
whether to legalize millions of illegal immigrants in the country. </p>
<p class="storytext">Ridge's words excited immigration advocates and
one of Hayworth's House
colleague, Rep. Jeff Flake, who is sponsoring legislation that would
give legal residency to illegal immigrants through work. </p>
<p class="storytext">"Those who are working here illegally need to be
here under a legal
framework. Secretary Ridge also understands that this needs to be
coupled with serious workplace enforcement," said Flake, R-Ariz. </p>
<p class="storytext"> Judy Golub, senior policy and outreach director
for <b>American Immigration Lawyers Association</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...%20Association"
target="_blank">search</a>),
said she thought it was the first time that a top administration
official had made "such a clear articulation of the fact that these
folks are not threats and deserve some form of legal status." </p>
<p class="storytext"> Cecilia Munoz, vice president of policy for <b>National
Council of La Raza</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...of%20La%20Raza"
target="_blank">search</a>), said Ridge's comments broke two years of
silence by the administration on the legalization issue.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Windows: Just another pane in the glass.<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>
Dec 10th 2003, 12:46 pm
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA & Grimsby, UK
Posts: 245
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Wow - way too much effort required to read this one!
Dec 10th 2003, 1:03 pm
#3
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Originally posted by Alecca
Wow - way too much effort required to read this one!
Wow - way too much effort required to read this one!
There is link to the article in the posting.
I agree with the "argh" comment -- it means that I will get tons of calls about the "new amnesty." People forget that the last "amnesty" was in the 1986 legislation and that was a result of the 1980 Hesburgh Commssion report.
Yes, the last time, it took six years for the "amnesty" to work its way through Congress. BTW, that was the same Congress that imposed the two year condition on you guys.
Don't worry about it until you see that both houses of congress have passed the bill and its on the president's desk for signature and you don't hear veto noises coming.
Dec 10th 2003, 1:16 pm
#4
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 129
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Originally posted by Andrew Defaria
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<p class="storytext">I guess immigration law means nothing. From
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105419,00.html">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105419,00.html</a><br>
</p>
<hr size="2" width="100%"><b>WASHINGTON — Homeland Security Secretary <strong>Tom
Ridge</strong>'s (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...kw=Tom%20Ridge"
target="_blank">search</a>) expression of support for giving legal
status to immigrants drew congressional criticism Wednesday but
heartened advocates.</b>
<p class="storytext">At a town hall meeting in Miami, Ridge said the
country needs to "come
to grips" with an estimated 8 million to 12 million illegal immigrants
and "determine how you can legalize their presence." He also said
during a visit to Florida on Tuesday that the immigrants should not be
rewarded citizenship. </p>
<p class="storytext"> <b>Asa Hutchinson</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...a%20Hutchinson"
target="_blank">search</a>),
undersecretary for border and transportation security, said Wednesday
in Miami that Ridge's comments simply reflected the debate in Congress
on immigration. </p>
<p class="storytext">"Secretary Ridge addressed it very honestly
yesterday, engaged in that
debate, but clearly this administration has not taken a firm policy
position on that and the debate continues," Hutchinson said. </p>
<p class="storytext">But Rep. J.D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., said it was
"inconceivable to me that
Secretary Ridge is speaking for the Bush administration when he
unilaterally and offhandedly suggests such a radical policy reversal
that is guaranteed to encounter strong opposition in Congress." </p>
<p class="storytext"> The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, slowed talks about
whether to legalize millions of illegal immigrants in the country. </p>
<p class="storytext">Ridge's words excited immigration advocates and
one of Hayworth's House
colleague, Rep. Jeff Flake, who is sponsoring legislation that would
give legal residency to illegal immigrants through work. </p>
<p class="storytext">"Those who are working here illegally need to be
here under a legal
framework. Secretary Ridge also understands that this needs to be
coupled with serious workplace enforcement," said Flake, R-Ariz. </p>
<p class="storytext"> Judy Golub, senior policy and outreach director
for <b>American Immigration Lawyers Association</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...%20Association"
target="_blank">search</a>),
said she thought it was the first time that a top administration
official had made "such a clear articulation of the fact that these
folks are not threats and deserve some form of legal status." </p>
<p class="storytext"> Cecilia Munoz, vice president of policy for <b>National
Council of La Raza</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...of%20La%20Raza"
target="_blank">search</a>), said Ridge's comments broke two years of
silence by the administration on the legalization issue.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Windows: Just another pane in the glass.<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>
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<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<p class="storytext">I guess immigration law means nothing. From
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105419,00.html">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105419,00.html</a><br>
</p>
<hr size="2" width="100%"><b>WASHINGTON — Homeland Security Secretary <strong>Tom
Ridge</strong>'s (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...kw=Tom%20Ridge"
target="_blank">search</a>) expression of support for giving legal
status to immigrants drew congressional criticism Wednesday but
heartened advocates.</b>
<p class="storytext">At a town hall meeting in Miami, Ridge said the
country needs to "come
to grips" with an estimated 8 million to 12 million illegal immigrants
and "determine how you can legalize their presence." He also said
during a visit to Florida on Tuesday that the immigrants should not be
rewarded citizenship. </p>
<p class="storytext"> <b>Asa Hutchinson</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...a%20Hutchinson"
target="_blank">search</a>),
undersecretary for border and transportation security, said Wednesday
in Miami that Ridge's comments simply reflected the debate in Congress
on immigration. </p>
<p class="storytext">"Secretary Ridge addressed it very honestly
yesterday, engaged in that
debate, but clearly this administration has not taken a firm policy
position on that and the debate continues," Hutchinson said. </p>
<p class="storytext">But Rep. J.D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., said it was
"inconceivable to me that
Secretary Ridge is speaking for the Bush administration when he
unilaterally and offhandedly suggests such a radical policy reversal
that is guaranteed to encounter strong opposition in Congress." </p>
<p class="storytext"> The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, slowed talks about
whether to legalize millions of illegal immigrants in the country. </p>
<p class="storytext">Ridge's words excited immigration advocates and
one of Hayworth's House
colleague, Rep. Jeff Flake, who is sponsoring legislation that would
give legal residency to illegal immigrants through work. </p>
<p class="storytext">"Those who are working here illegally need to be
here under a legal
framework. Secretary Ridge also understands that this needs to be
coupled with serious workplace enforcement," said Flake, R-Ariz. </p>
<p class="storytext"> Judy Golub, senior policy and outreach director
for <b>American Immigration Lawyers Association</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...%20Association"
target="_blank">search</a>),
said she thought it was the first time that a top administration
official had made "such a clear articulation of the fact that these
folks are not threats and deserve some form of legal status." </p>
<p class="storytext"> Cecilia Munoz, vice president of policy for <b>National
Council of La Raza</b> (<a
href="http://clickit.go2net.com/search?cid...of%20La%20Raza"
target="_blank">search</a>), said Ridge's comments broke two years of
silence by the administration on the legalization issue.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Windows: Just another pane in the glass.<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>
one comment in reference to "said she thought it was the first time that a top administration
official had made "such a clear articulation of the fact that these
folks are not threats and deserve some form of legal status."
if these folks are here illegally how does anyone know they aren't threats......weren't more than 1/2 of the 911 attackers here illegally?
the purpose of going through the immigration process is to determine whether or not someone is a threat
this frustrates me - it's just a slap in the face to all of us who've been waiting to either be here or bring our loved ones here
Dec 10th 2003, 1:36 pm
#5
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 709
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
The problem with amnesty's is -- it just bring MORE ILLEGALS to the country! Since they know they can just wait for the next one.
I wonder when the mad dash for everyone on the planet to get their arses to the US is gonna begin. If you're a parent of a USC, waiting 12 years -- why NOT come here illegally and get a GC through the amnesty? Makes sense doesn' it?
Poor Border Patrol. Every mexican and his mother is gonna start making plans to get over come hell or high water to meet the deadline if it's announced.
-= nav =-
I wonder when the mad dash for everyone on the planet to get their arses to the US is gonna begin. If you're a parent of a USC, waiting 12 years -- why NOT come here illegally and get a GC through the amnesty? Makes sense doesn' it?
Poor Border Patrol. Every mexican and his mother is gonna start making plans to get over come hell or high water to meet the deadline if it's announced.
-= nav =-
Dec 10th 2003, 1:36 pm
#6
CA to TX to Jamaica
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Location, Location.
Posts: 4,887
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Originally posted by Alecca
Wow - way too much effort required to read this one!
Wow - way too much effort required to read this one!
Dec 10th 2003, 1:37 pm
#7
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 709
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
btw: It'd be great for TN's or H1bs or VWP tourists. Just show up and say "I'm an illegal cuz i had immigrant intent". And you could apply for a GC too. Funky isn't it? 
-= nav =-
-= nav =-
Dec 10th 2003, 1:47 pm
#8
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Originally posted by cmstrick
one comment in reference to "said she thought it was the first time that a top administration
official had made "such a clear articulation of the fact that these
folks are not threats and deserve some form of legal status."
if these folks are here illegally how does anyone know they aren't threats......weren't more than 1/2 of the 911 attackers here illegally?
the purpose of going through the immigration process is to determine whether or not someone is a threat
this frustrates me - it's just a slap in the face to all of us who've been waiting to either be here or bring our loved ones here
one comment in reference to "said she thought it was the first time that a top administration
official had made "such a clear articulation of the fact that these
folks are not threats and deserve some form of legal status."
if these folks are here illegally how does anyone know they aren't threats......weren't more than 1/2 of the 911 attackers here illegally?
the purpose of going through the immigration process is to determine whether or not someone is a threat
this frustrates me - it's just a slap in the face to all of us who've been waiting to either be here or bring our loved ones here
Most the people illegaly present in the United States are NOT a direct threat to the security intrests of the United States -- they just want to live and work here.
Any "amnesty" that Congress might chose to pass will check those people for security clearances -- like any other immigrant.
If you go to most criminal courtrooms in the land, the vast majority of defendants happen to be U.S. citizens.
The Oklahoma City bombing was the work of two US citizens.
Before 1917 for the Eastern Hemisphere, there were no numerical restrictions on immigration -- you just had to show you were not a puaper, leper or other threat to the public health, not a criminal, lunatic or an Asian.
Before 1968 for the Western Hemisphere, you just had to meet to show you were not inadmissible under the various qualitative grounds.
If the system existed just to vette people -- we could revert to the old system with no quotas and just qualitative restrictions.
However, Congress, in its wisdom has chosen to restrict the numbers and types of immigrants.
Dec 10th 2003, 1:49 pm
#9
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 129
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Hi:
Most the people illegaly present in the United States are NOT a direct threat to the security intrests of the United States -- they just want to live and work here.
Any "amnesty" that Congress might chose to pass will check those people for security clearances -- like any other immigrant.
If you go to most criminal courtrooms in the land, the vast majority of defendants happen to be U.S. citizens.
The Oklahoma City bombing was the work of two US citizens.
Before 1917 for the Eastern Hemisphere, there were no numerical restrictions on immigration -- you just had to show you were not a puaper, leper or other threat to the public health, not a criminal, lunatic or an Asian.
Before 1968 for the Western Hemisphere, you just had to meet to show you were not inadmissible under the various qualitative grounds.
If the system existed just to vette people -- we could revert to the old system with no quotas and just qualitative restrictions.
However, Congress, in its wisdom has chosen to restrict the numbers and types of immigrants.
Hi:
Most the people illegaly present in the United States are NOT a direct threat to the security intrests of the United States -- they just want to live and work here.
Any "amnesty" that Congress might chose to pass will check those people for security clearances -- like any other immigrant.
If you go to most criminal courtrooms in the land, the vast majority of defendants happen to be U.S. citizens.
The Oklahoma City bombing was the work of two US citizens.
Before 1917 for the Eastern Hemisphere, there were no numerical restrictions on immigration -- you just had to show you were not a puaper, leper or other threat to the public health, not a criminal, lunatic or an Asian.
Before 1968 for the Western Hemisphere, you just had to meet to show you were not inadmissible under the various qualitative grounds.
If the system existed just to vette people -- we could revert to the old system with no quotas and just qualitative restrictions.
However, Congress, in its wisdom has chosen to restrict the numbers and types of immigrants.
Dec 10th 2003, 2:04 pm
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Folinskyinla wrote:
> I agree with the "argh" comment -- it means that I will get tons of
> calls about the "new amnesty." People forget that the last "amnesty"
> was in the 1986 legislation and that was a result of the 1980 Hesburgh
> Commssion report.
Some people, myself included, viewed the LIFE act as an amnesty program.
--
Earth First! We'll strip mine the other planets later.
> I agree with the "argh" comment -- it means that I will get tons of
> calls about the "new amnesty." People forget that the last "amnesty"
> was in the 1986 legislation and that was a result of the 1980 Hesburgh
> Commssion report.
Some people, myself included, viewed the LIFE act as an amnesty program.
--
Earth First! We'll strip mine the other planets later.
Dec 10th 2003, 2:12 pm
#11
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Originally posted by cmstrick
how long does it take to check 8-12 million people applying for amnesty when it takes almost a year or more to get 1 K1, K2 or K3 visa approved....
how long does it take to check 8-12 million people applying for amnesty when it takes almost a year or more to get 1 K1, K2 or K3 visa approved....
Actually, the 1987-88 legalization worked not all that badly. Congress set gave INS six months to set up a program with a one year filing period [18 months for section 210 agricultural workers]. It actually worked not all that badly.
One thing that IMHO helped was that the filing fee was pretty stiff -- the I-485 fee at the time was $60 while the I-687 fee for legalization was $185 -- cashier's checks only.
I think they did a pretty good job of vetting people. There were problems in the agricultural worker arena with false claims.
Also, there was a mixup [to which INS admitted their error] which caused a small number of people to miss the opportunity to file. Rather than settle the resulting litigation, the government vigorously fought the concept of "late filing" and the case actually bounced up the Supreme Court several times and was finally settled within the last two weeks! Becuase the litigation went on while injunctions were in place, there was a lot of fraud just to get EAD's. Please not that this fraud was not a direct result of the "late amnesty."
However, it is quite premature to talk about this -- like I noted above -- lets talk when a real bill is in the works and looks likely of passage.
Dec 10th 2003, 6:02 pm
#12
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 709
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Problem is..with every talk of an "amnesty" people in mexico hear about this and relatives, everyone all start celebrating.
And it just encourages the ones who were not planning on smuggling over and risking it -- to take the chance. Cuz hey "an amnesty is around the corner!".
Trust me, when illegals finally get gc's, what do you think they do? Yep, travel back to their home country, find their family members -- and encourage them to sneak across and stay with them, so they can relax and wait for the next amnesty like they did.
Many of the few million who are here, are here cuz of the last amnesty. They came after that and now waiting for the next one.
-= nav =-
And it just encourages the ones who were not planning on smuggling over and risking it -- to take the chance. Cuz hey "an amnesty is around the corner!".
Trust me, when illegals finally get gc's, what do you think they do? Yep, travel back to their home country, find their family members -- and encourage them to sneak across and stay with them, so they can relax and wait for the next amnesty like they did.
Many of the few million who are here, are here cuz of the last amnesty. They came after that and now waiting for the next one.
-= nav =-
Dec 10th 2003, 6:38 pm
#13
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Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
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cmstrick wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite">Originally
posted by Folinskyinla <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Any "amnesty" that Congress might chose to
pass will check those people for security clearances -- like any other
immigrant.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
And just like the hijacker terrorists! <span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span>
;-) </span></span><br>
<br>
Somehow I'm not getting warm and fuzzies...<br>
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">The Oklahoma City bombing was the work of two
US citizens.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
And 3000 people died due to a bunch of illegal aliens.<br>
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite"><!----></blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
Backups? We don' *NEED* no steenking backups.<br>
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cmstrick wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite">Originally
posted by Folinskyinla <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Any "amnesty" that Congress might chose to
pass will check those people for security clearances -- like any other
immigrant.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
And just like the hijacker terrorists! <span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span>
;-) </span></span><br>
<br>
Somehow I'm not getting warm and fuzzies...<br>
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">The Oklahoma City bombing was the work of two
US citizens.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
And 3000 people died due to a bunch of illegal aliens.<br>
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite"><!----></blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
Backups? We don' *NEED* no steenking backups.<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
Dec 10th 2003, 10:05 pm
#14
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 2,345
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Originally posted by CaliforniaBride
LOL, thought it was just me, but Defari's posts are way to much trouble for me to read!
LOL, thought it was just me, but Defari's posts are way to much trouble for me to read!
Dec 11th 2003, 2:31 am
#15
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,443
Re: Argh, another amensty program brewing
Originally posted by Andrew Defaria
Some people, myself included, viewed the LIFE act as an amnesty program.
--
Some people, myself included, viewed the LIFE act as an amnesty program.
--
How do you figure?
