Yep, winter tyres and rims!
Aug 2nd 2016, 2:06 pm
#16
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
...whereas in my case the discount is, IMO, worth the 40 minutes with a trolley jack and an air wrench that it takes me to swap the rims over in spring and fall. The compressor was bought for a different project so is a sunk cost; the cost of the impact wrench and the hydraulic jack have been paid back several times by now with two cars to deal with.
Another note about sizes of winter tyres. The rims on my minivan are the same size (16") winter and summer, but the winter rims are a bit narrower. From memory, in summer I run 235/65 R16; in winter 225/70. The rolling radius is about 1% different, the narrower cross-section and higher profile supposedly gives slightly better performance in snow. I don't have any direct evidence of that, but a convenient side-effect is that the winter boots are a slightly more widely available size than the summer ones so are a bit cheaper to replace.
Another note about sizes of winter tyres. The rims on my minivan are the same size (16") winter and summer, but the winter rims are a bit narrower. From memory, in summer I run 235/65 R16; in winter 225/70. The rolling radius is about 1% different, the narrower cross-section and higher profile supposedly gives slightly better performance in snow. I don't have any direct evidence of that, but a convenient side-effect is that the winter boots are a slightly more widely available size than the summer ones so are a bit cheaper to replace.
Aug 2nd 2016, 2:16 pm
#17
Proudly Scarberian
Joined: Aug 2014
Location: Scarberia
Posts: 2,196
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
...whereas in my case the discount is, IMO, worth the 40 minutes with a trolley jack and an air wrench that it takes me to swap the rims over in spring and fall. The compressor was bought for a different project so is a sunk cost; the cost of the impact wrench and the hydraulic jack have been paid back several times by now with two cars to deal with.
Ironically a lad in Crappy Tire couldn't get a rim off once and sheared the square drive off his ratchet driver. He wasn't bothered, said it was under warranty anyhow. I warned the guy in the tire place this had happened and they might be tough, he almost sneered when he came back ten mins later, job done.
Biggest pain in the butt for me in taking them to a tire place is putting four rims in the convertible if it's too wet for top down truck mode
Aug 2nd 2016, 4:04 pm
#19
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Joined: Mar 2010
Location: SW Calgary
Posts: 776
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
You are NOT supposed to be using a hammer action impact wrench or anything of the sort to put the lug nuts back on again.
Read your owners manual. Lug nuts are supposed to be torqued back on to a certain torque setting. Usually 80lbs/ft. Most impact/air wrenches hammer on to around 200lb/ft. This causes the lug but to stretch and deform, and also causes warping issues with the hub.
If you do your own changes, buy a torque wrench
Read your owners manual. Lug nuts are supposed to be torqued back on to a certain torque setting. Usually 80lbs/ft. Most impact/air wrenches hammer on to around 200lb/ft. This causes the lug but to stretch and deform, and also causes warping issues with the hub.
If you do your own changes, buy a torque wrench
Aug 2nd 2016, 4:22 pm
#20
Slob
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Ottineau
Posts: 6,342
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
You are NOT supposed to be using a hammer action impact wrench or anything of the sort to put the lug nuts back on again.
Read your owners manual. Lug nuts are supposed to be torqued back on to a certain torque setting. Usually 80lbs/ft. Most impact/air wrenches hammer on to around 200lb/ft. This causes the lug but to stretch and deform, and also causes warping issues with the hub.
If you do your own changes, buy a torque wrench
Read your owners manual. Lug nuts are supposed to be torqued back on to a certain torque setting. Usually 80lbs/ft. Most impact/air wrenches hammer on to around 200lb/ft. This causes the lug but to stretch and deform, and also causes warping issues with the hub.
If you do your own changes, buy a torque wrench
My son, BTW, puts the nuts on with an impact until they are tightish and then fine-tunes with a torque bar.
Aug 2nd 2016, 4:33 pm
#21
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
They should be going back and checking with a torque wrench, unless they have torque-limited air wrenches. ..... The places I get tyres torque by hand .... and over-tightening can, aside from the other problems given above, make it impossible to remove the wheel by the side of the road if you get a flat.
Last edited by Pulaski; Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:33 pm.
Aug 2nd 2016, 5:23 pm
#22
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
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Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
I haven't expected to be able to do that for years. I thought one reason for the use of run flat tyres was that people generally can't remove the wheels any more. All the dealerships and tyre shops I've dealt with in Canada have torqued the wheel bolts so that only a compressor driven wrench can undo them.
Aug 2nd 2016, 5:33 pm
#23
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
I haven't expected to be able to do that for years. I thought one reason for the use of run flat tyres was that people generally can't remove the wheels any more. All the dealerships and tyre shops I've dealt with in Canada have torqued the wheel bolts so that only a compressor driven wrench can undo them.
..... I have never had a run-flat tyre fitted on any vehicle.
Aug 2nd 2016, 5:51 pm
#24
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: SW Calgary
Posts: 776
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
- putting them on quickly and finishing them off with a torque wrench
- using an air wrench with a torque limiter, OR
- (and this is the one I suspect happens most) they don't give a shit, and want to get it back on as quickly as possible so they can move onto the next job
Number 3 is the reason I started doing my own summer/winter rim changes. Garages were ruining the hubs/lug nuts on my vehicles because they didn't care enough to torque them on properly.
The other reason (that was also mentioned here) was when I got a flat a couple of years ago, I literally bent the "emergency" tire wrench in half trying to undo the lug nuts. We had to call out roadside assistance, who also couldn't remove the lug nuts, and had to take the vehicle 150km back home on a flatbed.
Properly torqued lug nuts will come off easily.
Last edited by Photoplex; Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:55 pm.
Aug 2nd 2016, 6:00 pm
#25
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: SW Calgary
Posts: 776
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
I haven't expected to be able to do that for years. I thought one reason for the use of run flat tyres was that people generally can't remove the wheels any more. All the dealerships and tyre shops I've dealt with in Canada have torqued the wheel bolts so that only a compressor driven wrench can undo them.
Read your owners manual - I'll bet it states they are supposed to be from 70-100lbs/ft. If yours are so tight only an air compressor impact wrench can take them off, it's probably in the 400-750lb/ft range.
If so, I sure hope you're getting them at a dealership so you can claim on the warranty if necessary down the line.
Aug 2nd 2016, 6:15 pm
#26
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
Then they're wildly over-torquing your lug nuts, warping the hubs and stretching the lug nut heads.
Read your owners manual - I'll bet it states they are supposed to be from 70-100lbs/ft. If yours are so tight only an air compressor impact wrench can take them off, it's probably in the 400-750lb/ft range.
If so, I sure hope you're getting them at a dealership so you can claim on the warranty if necessary down the line.
Read your owners manual - I'll bet it states they are supposed to be from 70-100lbs/ft. If yours are so tight only an air compressor impact wrench can take them off, it's probably in the 400-750lb/ft range.
If so, I sure hope you're getting them at a dealership so you can claim on the warranty if necessary down the line.
One trick I've found usually works is to put the wrench on the nut and a breezeblock under that, dropping the jack puts the weight of the car on the wrench and may turn the nut. One trick that didn't work was putting a six foot tube over the wrench handle and a chain from that to the tractor; eventually I was able to apply enough force to break the wrench.
It's all a strenuous and dangerous business so I try to avoid it. My experience is that the nuts will last for the six or seven years it takes for the bodywork to rust away.
Aug 2nd 2016, 6:21 pm
#27
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: SW Calgary
Posts: 776
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
Not possible with most vehicles "emergency tire change kit" though, as the lug wrench is usually the same lever used to raise/lower the jack. But useful for trying at home on a seized nut
Aug 2nd 2016, 6:40 pm
#28
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Posts: 4,104
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
Kal Tire do it for free, if you buy tires there. Though dropping the car off and picking it up can be a pain.
Aug 2nd 2016, 7:00 pm
#29
Slob
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Ottineau
Posts: 6,342
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
I know all of this but I'm not going to be entering a concours so I don't suppose anyone will fuss over my stretched nuts.
One trick I've found usually works is to put the wrench on the nut and a breezeblock under that, dropping the jack puts the weight of the car on the wrench and may turn the nut. One trick that didn't work was putting a six foot tube over the wrench handle and a chain from that to the tractor; eventually I was able to apply enough force to break the wrench.
It's all a strenuous and dangerous business so I try to avoid it. My experience is that the nuts will last for the six or seven years it takes for the bodywork to rust away.
One trick I've found usually works is to put the wrench on the nut and a breezeblock under that, dropping the jack puts the weight of the car on the wrench and may turn the nut. One trick that didn't work was putting a six foot tube over the wrench handle and a chain from that to the tractor; eventually I was able to apply enough force to break the wrench.
It's all a strenuous and dangerous business so I try to avoid it. My experience is that the nuts will last for the six or seven years it takes for the bodywork to rust away.
Aug 2nd 2016, 7:06 pm
#30
Pea Brain
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: TBD
Posts: 6,005
Re: Yep, winter tyres and rims!
All this talk of dbd's nuts and his tool is putting me off my lunch 